Do Private Schools Have Any Business Playing Class 1 Football?
- Thread starter Gubba Bump Shrimp
- Start date
So says the guy who believes, and I quote, "Compete with like programs." Sounds like to me you have a even bigger agenda with a comment like that than just private vs public veer boy.
LOL. Im not asking you to change you opinion. I'm not the one who comes on here complaining and making excuses because there is a multiplier, nor will you hardly ever see that. It is the ones who instill upon their kids that "excuses" is a valid reason failure and disappointment who continue to make these discussions. Again, for every one private school who does exceptionally well, we could list a couple who are horrid in that sport. Don't have a problem with them though do you? I guarantee you, until there comes a day where there is a formula in which a private school will never win another state championship there will be people who aren't satisfied with the current system.
And like I stated Valle has lost 33% of their students in 6 years from 180-120. At that rate just wait another 6 years or so years and it won't be feasible for them to keep their doors open. Which would be a shame.
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Thank God there are public schools for those who are "too lazy" to afford the private option.
At one point I really believed private schools should never be in the lowest class. But then as this debate raged on it got me thinking about the two Catholic Private schools in my area. One is Joplin Mcauley who has access to kids from Joplin, Webb, CJ, and I know kids from as far away as Monett, and Pierce City go there. When growing up my neighbor hood buddy went there and they cannot even field an 8 man squad now. The other is Springfield Catholic who well has access to all those Springfield schools along with Nixa Ozark and other schools, and while they have shown flashes of good and have one state title for the 90's they are by no means good year in and year out.
I know in this area most private schools are about on par with public when it comes to education, faculties and I would give the public schools probable an edge when it comes to teachers. I know Monett has one on one technology and is far more advance in the education than the private schools in this area. I know most people in this area don't consider private schools for any other reason than usually religion reason. Those that send them to Catholic school do so because of religion reasons more so than education and for sure not because of the sports programs. Others who want education first look to the public schools and probable look to the success in sports if they are looking for their child to excel in that area in my humble opinion.
I guess if the private schools are doing better in things in the St. Louis area it has to do more with the state of the public education system and sports programs in that area, as those that can afford to send them to private schools are choosing to do that. Because if you look around the state you don't see much debating outside of the St Louis area.
I know in this area most private schools are about on par with public when it comes to education, faculties and I would give the public schools probable an edge when it comes to teachers. I know Monett has one on one technology and is far more advance in the education than the private schools in this area. I know most people in this area don't consider private schools for any other reason than usually religion reason. Those that send them to Catholic school do so because of religion reasons more so than education and for sure not because of the sports programs. Others who want education first look to the public schools and probable look to the success in sports if they are looking for their child to excel in that area in my humble opinion.
I guess if the private schools are doing better in things in the St. Louis area it has to do more with the state of the public education system and sports programs in that area, as those that can afford to send them to private schools are choosing to do that. Because if you look around the state you don't see much debating outside of the St Louis area.
Ok so you said a whole lot about the state of education, but how do you feel about private schools playing in the smallest classification?
I don't have any issue with it right now as it seems to be relegated to the St Louis area. So I don't think we can make a change that will affect every private school in Missouri when only one seems to be having an advantage right now. Like I said Joplin Mcauly could not compete in class 1 or 8 man with probable 10 times the access to kids that Valle has so how could they be forced to go to class 2 if they want to try and field a football team again?
Name another private school in Missouri besides Valle that is in the state finals year in and year out? Or how about this another Private school outside of the St Louis Metro area.
John Burroughs.
Is Valle in the St. Louis metro area? Ste Genevieve is pretty far south. Just because they're on the east side of the state doesn't mean they're in the metro area.
Burroughs, their first state title was 2015 since moving up to class 3 almost 15 years. I don't have an issue with them playing class 3. However I do have an issue with them having kids playing that don't live in Missouri. But because of that I don't think they should be bumped up, I just want a clarification on the rules.
My question is if a kid lived in Kansas and wanted to play on CJ and paid tuition to go would they be allowed to participate on the football team? If so then I guess Burroughs is playing fair, if not then I think those same rules should apply to them.
Burroughs has been to the last 5 or 6 championship games. You just asked which other private schools competed every year. Burroughs is in the championship game every year, may not win it, but they're always there.
Also it's besides the point. Class 3 schools typically have enough boys to compete against a private school. If you've only got 50-75 boys in your school to choose from, it gets that much harder to compete against a private school from a large population center that gets to be selective in who attends.
There's a reason public schools class 4 and down from the East side are a level below those from the West an overwhelming majority of the time. Private schools pick a player here or there and it kills schools that don't have the numbers to overcome it. IE Class 4 and below.
Can CJ give the kid a reduced tuition rate and/or 'scholarships'?
If yes then it's the same. If no, it's not even close to the same.
Kinda creepy you know about all the valle boys if you're not part of the program. Just sayin.
SSOinSG why the name change?
private schools play by a different and easier set of rules. Anyone that can't see that has an agenda for sure.
They can actually, your school board can decide what rate if any they want to charge out of district students who attend. So out of state kids can attend public schools?
In life there will always be somebody playing by a different set of rules. So do we want to teach our kids if you cannot overcome that then just change the rules to fit your needs? I think you want to try and level the playing field, but if a private school wants to win it bad enough and has deep enough pockets they will adapt to anything we put out there.
I think we put to much emphasis on winning a state title, if your kids and coaches worked hard and did the best they could then you should be proud of them for going out and competing. There are a lot of teams and coaches who never make it past the first couple of rounds and still probable overachieved for that year and should be proud of the accomplishments of that season. If there are private schools who want to take advantage of the rules to win at all cost let them host that ill gotten trophy. But life lessons are learned on the field through sports. I think we need to teach our kids to overcome any obstacle that gets in the way. Hey life is hard, jobs are hard, bosses are hard nothing in life is fair. We don't want to just hand out participation trophy's or do we?
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YEAH! While we're at it, get rid of weight classes in wrestling and boxing, get rid of freshman and JV teams, if they can't cut it at the Varsity level they're just out of luck because "life isn't fair". Get rid of Special Olympics and Para-olympics, either compete against the best or get out, we're all equal right? Gotta overcome obsticals...
LOL...so you are one of those types if you cannot have it your way just throw out the whole d@mn system there is no debating with you...okay.
While were at it lets do it your way every kid that goes out for a sport has to play equal time on the field. there are no starters you flip a coin.
I think you are really loosing it. I used to be Fb_42. left and came back. Have no idea who you are saying sso is. Are you losing it? And trust us veer guy. We all saw through your, "compete with like programs," comment. You have a lot more issues going on then just your private vs public argument. We all know it.
But lets just talk about public vs private issue and leave your other racist thoughts alone for a sec. We all know, no matter how you put the rules you won't be satisfied till a private school never wins another championship or private schools has their own championship. I've never seen a bigger excuse maker, complainer on any board ever. Please don't tell me you have any children.
1. Do private schools have inherent competitive advantages?
2. Are those advantages potentially even more pronounced against schools who only have 75 boys in the entire school?
3. Why is there a multiplier?
4. If the multiplier fails to do what it is intended to do at the lowest level, should the team be moved up to the next class regardless.
Sure. You always talk for him? Compete with like programs. Theres all different type of "like" programs buddy.
No, just not a fan of race baiters and people making accusations that are completely unfounded. Stick to the topic. Private schools don't belong in Class 1.
Hello pot, you want to talk creepy, you're on every Valle threat preaching on your soapbox, STALKER! I went to Valle, played football there, I am born and raised in Ste. Genevieve. It's not a big place so I fairly certain I know more about the players and system there. Go creep on some other program COACH, keep making excuses, I'm sure that benefits your player's great.
As much as they think Im from Ste Gen also, I'm from st. louis. Met a lot of good people from Ste Gen at the state KC softball tourney. I will say this, some of the nicest people I have ever met. Lets just face it here. The complainers like Veer aren't going to be happy until private schools have their own championship. If Valle was in class 2 and still winning championships they would find something else to say that isn't fair. Well people don't understand that MSHSAA was started by private and public schools, not just by public. Anyone who has ever done any coaching like I have, can tell which kids come from parents who complain and make excuses about everything, and those who live by the "no excuse" model.
I'm sure we competed on the softball field, I was on several of those teams, thanks for the compliments. This idiot (veer) has been bashing Valle for years under the guise of "fishing". It's not fishing, it's called being a JERK! Now he and all his defenders can mouth off about how Valle people are such easy targets. SOSDD
1. Do private schools have inherent competitive advantages?
2. Are those advantages potentially even more pronounced against schools who only have 75 boys in the entire school?
3. Why is there a multiplier?
4. If the multiplier fails to do what it is intended to do at the lowest level, should the team be moved up to the next class regardless.[/QUOTE]
- Yes some do, not all.
2. Are those advantages potentially even more pronounced against schools who only have 75 boys in the entire school?
- Depends on the school I would say some the public schools have an advantage depends on the geographic area.
3. Why is there a multiplier?
- to try and level the playing field however for some private schools it is a punishment.
4. If the multiplier fails to do what it is intended to do at the lowest level, should the team be moved up to the next class regardless.[/QUOTE]
- I think in some schools cases yes. However let's first make it the schools choice, right now no school can move up a class even if they want to. But I don't think you can make it one sizes fits all. Say Mcauly wants to try and field a football team again and can only get enough for 8 man under your rules all private schools have to play class 2 so they could not start a program.
- I think in some schools cases yes. However let's first make it the schools choice, right now no school can move up a class even if they want to. But I don't think you can make it one sizes fits all. Say Mcauly wants to try and field a football team again and can only get enough for 8 man under your rules all private schools have to play class 2 so they could not start a program.
If McAuley can only field an 8-man team, then let them play 8-man. I'm talking about the only 2 teams that play Class 1 football and field 37 (St. Vincent) and 45 (Valle) players.
Drop it.
Veer is a lot of things and few of them good but he isn't racist. For sure not based on this comment you keep citing.
millerbleach you are one good person.
I have been on and off this site for almost a decade and never heard one bad thing out of your mouth.
Like "everyone" you have more than one opinion. Depending on the topic we sometimes disagree but I can always count on you to be Christian like and be respectful of others.
Thank you for that...
Stop it, you'll ruin my reputation.millerbleach you are one good person.
I have been on and off this site for almost a decade and never heard one bad thing out of your mouth.
Like "everyone" you have more than one opinion. Depending on the topic we sometimes disagree but I can always count on you to be Christian like and be respectful of others.
Thank you for that...
millerbleach you are one good person.
I have been on and off this site for almost a decade and never heard one bad thing out of your mouth.
Like "everyone" you have more than one opinion. Depending on the topic we sometimes disagree but I can always count on you to be Christian like and be respectful of others.
Thank you for that...
LOL i laughed when i read that... The butt kissing is strong in that post Lol
If McAuley can only field an 8-man team, then let them play 8-man. I'm talking about the only 2 teams that play Class 1 football and field 37 (St. Vincent) and 45 (Valle) players.[/QUOTE]
Okay just so I understand what you are requesting, so you are not wanting a rule that covers all small class 1 sized private school, You just want it cover those private schools that can field a large team and win while doing it?
[/QUOTE]Okay just so I understand what you are requesting, so you are not wanting a rule that covers all small class 1 sized private school, You just want it cover those private schools that can field a large team and win while doing it?[/QUOTE]
I've said repeatedly that private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in the smallest classification.
Perhaps I should have been more specific, here, private schools should not be allowed to play in the smallest 11-man classification.
8-man is a whole different game and ISN'T INCLUDED in the Classification system, it's it's own thing. Didn't realize I had to specify that.
I'm not getting into an argument over the merits of 8-man football. It has its place, but that ISN'T, hasn't been, and never was what I was talking about.
And yes, if McAuley wanted to go back to 11 man, they should go to Class 2. They don't, but if they wanted to, they could easily accept kids from Kansas, Oklahoma and all over SWMO. Inherent advantage.
I've said repeatedly that private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in the smallest classification.
Perhaps I should have been more specific, here, private schools should not be allowed to play in the smallest 11-man classification.
8-man is a whole different game and ISN'T INCLUDED in the Classification system, it's it's own thing. Didn't realize I had to specify that.
I'm not getting into an argument over the merits of 8-man football. It has its place, but that ISN'T, hasn't been, and never was what I was talking about.
And yes, if McAuley wanted to go back to 11 man, they should go to Class 2. They don't, but if they wanted to, they could easily accept kids from Kansas, Oklahoma and all over SWMO. Inherent advantage.
Okay just so I understand what you are requesting, so you are not wanting a rule that covers all small class 1 sized private school, You just want it cover those private schools that can field a large team and win while doing it?[/QUOTE]
I've said repeatedly that private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in the smallest classification.
Perhaps I should have been more specific, here, private schools should not be allowed to play in the smallest 11-man classification.
8-man is a whole different game and ISN'T INCLUDED in the Classification system, it's it's own thing. Didn't realize I had to specify that.
I'm not getting into an argument over the merits of 8-man football. It has its place, but that ISN'T, hasn't been, and never was what I was talking about.
And yes, if McAuley wanted to go back to 11 man, they should go to Class 2. They don't, but if they wanted to, they could easily accept kids from Kansas, Oklahoma and all over SWMO. Inherent advantage.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to get all defensive on me, I just asked a question you have to outline the rules so I know. So what if Vallee or the other school opted to go to 8-man could they because of enrollment?
Because as the MSHSAA rules currently state "schools with enrollments of 200 or less may choose to play in the 8-man division" So Vallee and all those private class 1 schools could roll to 8-man if they wanted could they not instead of being forced to class 2?
I've said repeatedly that private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in the smallest classification.
Perhaps I should have been more specific, here, private schools should not be allowed to play in the smallest 11-man classification.
8-man is a whole different game and ISN'T INCLUDED in the Classification system, it's it's own thing. Didn't realize I had to specify that.
I'm not getting into an argument over the merits of 8-man football. It has its place, but that ISN'T, hasn't been, and never was what I was talking about.
And yes, if McAuley wanted to go back to 11 man, they should go to Class 2. They don't, but if they wanted to, they could easily accept kids from Kansas, Oklahoma and all over SWMO. Inherent advantage.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to get all defensive on me, I just asked a question you have to outline the rules so I know. So what if Vallee or the other school opted to go to 8-man could they because of enrollment?
Because as the MSHSAA rules currently state "schools with enrollments of 200 or less may choose to play in the 8-man division" So Vallee and all those private class 1 schools could roll to 8-man if they wanted could they not instead of being forced to class 2?
They can do whatever they want. If they want to go down to 8-man and drive 300+ miles every other week to find other teams that play 8-man (there are none anywhere close to Ste Gen or Perryville) that's their prerogative. Like I already said, it's a totally different game. Given their advantages, they should NOT be allowed to play in Class 1. Period.
Also, can you just quote me or use the multi-quote tool? Digging through our entire conversation to figure out what your new statement is, is getting irritating.
Ok, and? I know several Class 4 schools that have to cancel Freshman games or even seasons due to low numbers. Or worse do the dreaded combined Freshman/JV game which is awful for everyone involved.
Amazing Valle had to cancel since according to every Valle apologist on here 1/3 of Valle's 45 man roster are freshmen...
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