What? Seems to me that every other response from you concerns Valle's alleged recruiting. I haven't followed every post on this thread that closely but show me another response where you knock another private class 1 school because of heir success.
Do Private Schools Have Any Business Playing Class 1 Football?
- Thread starter Gubba Bump Shrimp
- Start date
There are only TWO Class 1 private schools. The other is St. Vincent.
Please show ONE example of ME accusing Valle of recruiting. In fact I'm on the record multiple times in this thread saying I DON'T believe Valle recruits.
But hey, if you're going to accuse me of things, at least have the huevos to back up your claim. Find one example of me calling out Valle for recruiting. Should be easy right.
But once you fail to find any examples (because they don't exist) maybe you'll want to debate the actual point of this thread. I have maintained from the get go that NO private schools should be allowed to play in Class 1. Not singling out Valle.
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I'm talking about the last 7 years they've been to the championship game. How many guys from those rosters have went on to play any level of college football? Trust me, I'll wait for this one.
Not sure that you're making a great "point". Valle plays kids who would be good Class 3 or Class 4 players against Class 1 teams. If Hillsboro or Festus played Valle's schedule, they'd be undefeated every year too.
Not usually. Great ones do, but by and large the vast majority players Class 1-4 will never play a down of college ball at any level.
My point was, Valle has a TEAM full of Class 3/4 level talent. How many kids from Crystal City or Herculaneum would start at Festus or Hillsboro? 1? 3 tops. It's not impressive beating Class 1 talent with Class 4 players...even if you do it by 70 points.
Tell Webb City that their kids aren't good enough to play college football.
Is that what I said? Keep changing the subject, that'll make you right.
No matter what you say, private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in Class 1.
You said the vast majority of Class 3 and 4 players usually aren't good enough to play college football. You said it, go check.
That's not what I said, I said the vast majority never play a down of college football at any level. Statistically that is correct.
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/football
I told you to ask tico.
How many kids from Adrian have gone on to play college ball in last 7 years? Talk about a flailing attempt to change the topic...has nothing to do with anything.
Ste. Genevieve Public is class 3 so you are saying that all the kids in Ste. Genevieve County are class 3 or 4 caliber athletes?
Ste Genevieve and Valle's combined enrollment would be 758, so yeah by definition they are, enrollment and population wise, Class 3 or 4 athletes.
It's not like they're coming out of a town with a population of 500.
Guess you couldn't find any posts with me accusing Valle of recruiting (you know, like you said I was doing "every other post") so you're attempting to change the subject.
Kettle.
It's amazing how your argument gets refuted/ripped apart so you just make a new argument without ever actually acknowledging the original point.
If you were to attend a school with a rich tradition in a sport, I'm pretty sure you would go out for the team. Valle has 14 State Championships in their history, tied for the most in Missouri history. I think that is rich enough for any boy in the school to go out for football.
How was my argument refuted/ripped apart? Veer has never answered me and you pull the "Private schools shouldn't be in Class 1" because they win too much or have too many kids on the roster?
No, because private schools have inherent competitive advantages over public schools, and those advantages become even more pronounced when they're playing public schools that only have 50-80 boys in them total.
Yeah they win too much. It's easy to do when you're playing by a different set of rules than all but one other team in your Classification.
How many kids at Valle HAVE to work a job? (If you don't see how this is a huge advantage, you're willfully blind or just don't get it)
Does Valle have district boundaries?
How many kids with IEPs does Valle have?
How many kids with behavior, emotional, psychological problems does Valle have?
How many kids at Valle are on free or reduced lunch or breakfast?
How does that answer my question? I know the advantages, I asked how many of them does Valle take advantage of?
They take advantage of all of them. They may not have any kids from Jefferson or St. Francois County, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't take them. Especially if they were 6'3" 260 and a good student.
The only reason they wouldn't take a kid is if they were a problem or if for some reason they wanted to keep their enrollment down...
So because they can take kids from Jefferson or St. Francois County but haven't had one kid from either county, means they take advantage of that how exactly?
You know that they have kids on free and reduced lunches?
You know Valle doesn't have one kid with an IEP or behavior or emotional problems?
You know that Valle kids DON'T HAVE to work jobs?
Try answering your own accusations/questions first.
Typical private school apologist. If their parents can afford tuition then no those kids likely don't HAVE to work a job. If you're well off enough financially to send a kid to private school then they're not on free/reduced anything. You can't say they've NEVER had kids from other counties just because they don't right now. The point is they CAN. They could take kids from across the river in Illinois if they wanted to. If Ezekial Elliot had wanted to drive from Alton to Ste Gen, do you really think Valle would have turned him away. Just because it isn't happening right now doesn't mean it CAN'T happen, thus the unequal playing field.
I know for a fact that a lot of Ste. Genevieve kids, including SG public, work on their dad's farms and that is a lot harder than Mcdonalds. And a lot of the kids out for football at Valle are just that,out for football and not playing much if any. 8 players less than 140 pounds, and 17 players 140-160. So 25 of their 45 kids are less than 160 pounds. Ste. Gen Public did not have all the weights listed for their players.
Ok and which is more flexible as far as getting to practices and lifting all summer? Working on the farm for dad or working for a company that is concerned with their bottom line, not your weight lifting schedule?
No doubt farm work is harder, but dad will also make sure you're where you need to be when it comes time to practice...
Again the overall inherent advantage is in class size, but yet I don't hear you complaining about those lower half enrollment schools of some of the best classes. And why don't you have a problem with Lamar winning year after year? But Ill repeat my post.
The inherent biggest advantage to all is about numbers. Hence why they have different class's of football. One of the arguments on here was that private schools have such a big advantage because they can draw from a bigger area and population. Well the same can be said for a public vs public school. The argument is that private schools can pick and choose their better athletes who come into their school, which is laughable by the way. Well a bigger public school in that class has that advantage over the lower ones also. So no it isn't fair. And there will never be a true fair system for all.
Interesting fact here. Out of class 6, 5, and 4, and I pretty sure i have this right. Of the 26 out of 36 times a public schools made the state championship game since 2010, only 4 of them came from the lower half of enrollment number in that specific class.
If you add the 10 private schools who made it to the championship game out of those 36 teams, which they only won 2 of those 18 championships game, none of those private schools came from the lower half of the enrollment figures.
And no the multiplier wasn't suppose to purposely move up a school to another class. So to answer your original question, Yes a private school has the right to be playing any class that the multiplier has them in. Period.
Majost, you are missing the point of public vs. private. If MSHSAA officials thought there was no advantage, why is there a multiplier? Rockhurst has 2.25 I believe since it is an all boys school. Public schools have to take everyone who is within a district, no ifs, ands, or buts. Private schools can essentially choose. Valle has entrance interviews. Don't kid yourself pal. If they were hurting financially, they would take anyone, but they dont. A school that size (enrollment of 121) just doesnt have 45-55 boys out year in and year out. Not to mention a decent basketball team, and a pretty damn good baseball team. There are advantages and it's not a numbers game. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for ya son.
First: Mshsaa doesn't try to set any certain rule to affect just one school. Like we said before if they weren't winning state championships we wouldn't be having this problem. You are correct the 2.25 was put in place because of the same gender. If the whole reason was to jump up private schools to another class, little bit of advice this is what it would have said in the mshsaa rules: Private schools are to be automatically moved up one class. Same sex gender schools two class's. We wouldn't have racked their brains trying to come up with a certain multiplier.
Second: To your point of "its not a numbers game." The multiplier is a number. Classes are based on, get this I know its hard for you so hang with me, Numbers. Who would have thought.
Feel sorry for me? LOL. Save your feelings there buddy.
I assure you the amount of kids who went to valle this year as a freshman, is the same number that applied. Minus those who probably thought they school would pay for their kids tuition, but when they found out they wouldn't, they went to a public school.
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Another day or two of this debate and I think you all will find the answer
Braymer, Polo and Breckinridge are all in Caldwell Co. and have around 250 students between them.
I think those entrance interviews are to determine financial ability to pay and set up payment plans. If anyone thinks that the Catholic Church has monies to throw at football scholarships you are kidding yourself.
I talked to someone a couple of weeks ago who has 3 kids at Valle, at least 1 in high school and he said he was paying around $11k a year. No idea of what the family does for a living.
About 25 of those 45 kids on the roster are under 160 pounds. Starters play on both sides of the line. It looks impressive to see that many kids on the side line but many don't play. The biggest advantage that Valle has is when they are winning, kids who are on the bubble versus Ste Gen public choose Valle.
You can believe what you want. I believe that Excuses satisfy the Maker.
So there are 4 high schools in Caldwell County? The 3 you mention and Penny?
Penny has been the largest school in class 1 or smallest in class 2. That wold put the total high school population around 450 for Caldwell county?
Well I find it great when any school has the big of a percentage participation rate in anything. Whether it is a sport, music, drama, whatever. I gurantee you any coach, from any class would love that big of a percentage to go out for their sport. Like I said I bet it establishes great comradery between the boys of all classes at valle. Who wouldn't want to be part of it. Funny how people don't realize a catholic school has to have a certain amount of kids in order to make budget. I went to a catholic grade school, not high school, but there was 150 kids at that grade school when i was there. They closed a few years ago when there was only 70 kids cause it couldn't cover cost.
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