Rule Interpretation?

[ladyeaglefan1]

This is an observation I made yesterday at a local softball game (and on several occasions during summer games). The opposing team's catcher was "simulating" a sign to the pitcher, when in reality, there was a fan directly behind the backstop (daddy) that was actually calling the pitches.

The rule book says that the pitcher has to take the sign from the catcher, but is there anything in the book about fans "coaching" or giving signs?

One would think that the head coach would have a problem with it, but apparently not.

Your thoughts?

 

[3Rfan]

Pretty hard to prove the catcher is "simulating" signs no matter who does what in the stands. Fans/parents coach from the stands all time and probably umpire even more.

 

[ladyeaglefan1]

Apparently you haven't been to an EC game this year.

 

[3Rfan]

I saw them in the summer league and heard the complaints, I knew who you were talking about. So how do you prove the catcher isn't giving her the signs?

 

[ladyeaglefan1]

It's pretty obvious......I am not going to rant. All I want to know is this. Are players supposed to be taking signs (either pitching or hitting) from anyone other than the coach? Example: the coach in the dugout gives a sign to the catcher, and in turn the catcher gives the sign to the pitcher. I am pretty sure that the coach can not give the pitching sign directly to the pitcher. Example: The third base coach gives the sign to the batter. What I am talking about is a fan, be it a father, mother, cousin, uncle, boyfriend, etc. acting in a coaching capacity by giving explicit signs to a player, and that person is not on the coaching staff or in the dugout. My personal opinion is this: If I were the coach, I would not stand for this. Certainly this would not be stood for in the higher levels. I believe the Colby Rasmus thing in St. Louis is a prime example.

 

[3Rfan]

I'm not arguing one way or the other, just saying it would be very hard to prove what's goin on.

 

[Jay Jay Jay]

Just curious, but how does the catcher know what's coming if someone behind her is giving the signal?

 

[3Rfan]

As far as I know her head neck is not stiff. I heard the catcher gives signs and the pitcher shakes it off if it's not the one she wants, so the catcher is actually giving signs and pitcher decides which one to take. When it gets right down to it thats how it is in any league.

 

[ladyeaglefan1]

It is very obvious. All you have to do is go to one of the games and see for yourself. It sounds like I am complaining, and mybe I am. However, all this is doing is hurting the pitcher. If she can't rely on her actual coach, then what is that teaching her? In the higher ranks, and on the next level, I would suspect that this kind of behavior would not be tolerated by the coaching staff. I have been to LOTS of big time travel ball tournements in Florida, Louisana, Tennesse and other areas. The college scouts watch how the players act, on and off the field. They make notes on how much family interaction is made, etc. Talk to any D1 coach and they will tell you that you either play by our rules, or go somewhere else. Whether it is legal or not, that is my opinion that only matters to me. I just hope that the player doesn't end up losing an opportunity at the next level because of this.

 

[3Rfan]

Hope to see a bunch of your fans at 3Rivers this evening and tomorrow for the tournament. Good luck.

 

[ladyeaglefan1]

Thanks. We will be there.

 

[washMoSports]

Actually, in the number of years I have been around softball, I have seen this many times. While I think you may be correct in your interpretation, it's by far not unusual. Even one college nearby us that named the Dad a coach so he could continue to call pitches at that level. So it's not even unusual at the college level, especially if it gets them "THAT" player they really want.

 

[baske44tball]

ladyeagle... I have to agree that doing this would only hurt the team. Like 3R said, how does the catcher know what's coming? I have, however, called signs to both my pitcher and catcher at the same time. My pitcher was experienced and catcher at the time was not. Therefore, I knew the correct sign was given. I don't think there is specifically a rule stating that the pitcher cannot get a sign from a coach, but she does have to "simulate" getting one from her catcher. I had my pitcher look directly at me the second she stepped on the mound and when that happened the catcher would then look at me too. I faced the catcher so that when she was looking at me I knew the pitcher was too. I'll have to look this up for sure, but I don't think it's illegal...
I also understand where you're coming from with the whole not listening to your coach thing. But this happens alot since now-days so many players are seeking clinics and coaches during the off season. The days of having one "coach" are over, I'm afraid. But I do agree that if it's during school ball, that coach trumps any and all other coaches. That's just being professional.

 

[LimaLaker]

The only rational reason to be upset about the catcher not giving signs is that someone is stealing them from 2B or beyond the OF wall.

The big thing is for the catcher to know what's coming. How the catcher comes to know is irrelevant.