Rockhurst done
- Thread starter AC100
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Make sure wear a mask while posting. I hear it's a smart virus and might mutate to digital transmission soon.
Death is Death....everybody has a expiration date. I know of 4 people who have died from C19 and 3 of them where older friends with pre-existing issues, their wit,humor is already missed. But in this time frame more people that I know have died from other causes, cancer, heart disease, a stroke, and old age 98yrs old RIP Mrs. G.Parker sporting events won't every be the same without you.
But I don't rank or feel more or less empathy based on the cause of death. Death is part of life and a Reality for all. Having a realistic outlook on Death and dealing with it is healthy and part of being human.
Dying from C19 is a real possibility for some. Others less so. Living ones life day by day and like it's your last is important, worrying about how your going to die and obsessing over it is counter productive to a happy life.
Life must go on and living in Fear daily must soon come to a end. This is not a mass extinction level plague. People are going to die from it, people are going to survive it and never show any ill effects and some will survive it and will not ever fully recover. While the lucky one's will never contact it. That's the breaks...
This is how these things work it is part of life and we Must move Forward and continue living.
If your holding out for a effective vaccine then you are going to be sad more than likely....
It may be time to reset expectations on when we'll get a Covid-19 vaccine
The ambitious drive to produce Covid-19 vaccine at warp speed seems to be running up against reality.
www.statnews.com
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
www.bloomberg.com
A year to a year in a half is really a fast track for a semi-effective vaccine, a lot of Flu Vaccines are only 30-40% effective. Most vaccines take 3-4 years if they are even possible to develop. A Corona Virus is not a easy nut to crack. If it was there would be a vaccine for the common cold.
This notion of yours about buying time until a cure all come about is a bit overly optimistic. We pretty much flattened the curve and that is all that needed to be done. Now it's about getting on with life and everybody doing what they see fit for them is the best course of action.
This very well could be the new normal for the world. C19 might Kill people from here on out until we reach herd immunity if that is even Possible with a Corona Virus some scientist believe it's not a reality. Locking down the Country is a short term solution because once you open back up it can spread again.
I have no problem with waiting a bit longer but come next Spring it's time to Move forward. Maybe this will be a good thing, in the past with higher mortality rates the world population had better coping skills and a mental make up to deal with daily death. Maybe this Virus will move us back to a better place of enjoying the quality of life as opposed to being focused on the quantity.
Sure N95 are 95% effective but only for 4 hours....might want to check your data on the average cloth mask people are using. Several studies I've read have anywhere from 30-40% effective to 40-68% effective,If the exposure is over your threshold or even slightly under and if not worn 100% properly with effective mask protocol. Most people don't even begin to adhere to mask protocol or even wear them properly.
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks Against SARS-CoV-2
wwwnc.cdc.gov
This article will get you started. I will try and find the other studies I read they where from 2012-2016. My GF is a Epi RN dealing with this stuff daily.... That is why at first the recommendation was not to mask....the CDC knows this and didn't want to deplete the supply.
Also I wear a mask at work(required work at a hospital) and when I go out for the most part...I don't after setting down at a restaurant table. I assume the risk at that point for the enjoyment. But 30-almost 70% effectiveness is worth the hassle of masking IMO when going to the store etc. For others not so much and so be it.
You clearly don't get a huge segment of the American Population....On Principle I hate the gov. trying to Mandate Mask wearing, Shutting down business and such, while others are deemed necessary and stay open. To me Liberty and Freedom over Life any day and all day. Mask and Hide if you want, let others do what they want and assume the Risk. I find the Middle Ground, I mask and go out but another Lock Down is not Palatable to me and many other. The Spice must FLOW......no matter the mortality rate.
I get the science but at some point Life must go on and that is the Reality of the world.
Blaming Trump is easy ......Trump could of begged and pleaded for people to stay home, wear mask and that would of just been wasted Breath. 200,000+ deaths was not and will not curtail the American spirit of Freedom. Freedom is not BS and should never be taken lightly.
Also the best way to care for one another is to have a Robust economy, with Jobs, Hope and Freedom to enjoy life to it's fullest.....Hiding in a Basement obsessed over death rates and chastising and demeaning others who don't want to follow that dark path is anti-life and anti-caring for your fellow man. But to each his own you do what you want it's your life.
Should We All Be Wearing Masks In Public? Health Experts Revisit The Question
There are rumblings that U.S. health officials may start encouraging Americans to wear face masks to cut down on asymptomatic spread. But with continued shortages, it's not clear how we'd do that.
www.npr.org
Might want to read this .....
6-8 more months of a shut down might destroy our economy and our countries world wide strength in the Process. Bringing American as we know it to our Knee's.
Do you only see things through a myopic scope of a few thousand lives as opposed to 300+ millions and the future generations? Are you that selfish you have no issue with sacrificing America's future and all the future generations of America and our way of life?
Maybe you should look long term and opposed to short term. I'm concerned about my children and grandchildren......I and my Parents have lived our lives and they have been pretty dang Good. If I and them go out a bit early it is worth it for the Future. I guess your ability to sacrifice is stunted.
Yes 100% do...when certain geographic regions, radicalize and indoctrinate it is a great way to make sure different area's of the country that have counter beliefs can have different cultures and ways of life.
I agree maybe it would be a good thing if people moving into different states lost their right to vote in local/state stuff and then their off spring could gain it back once they had been assimilated into that states culture. Sure let them vote for President but not anything else. I know a bit radical but dang ....
....People turning their States and Cities(NYC/Chicago) into crap holes then fleeing and starting the process all over again in some Red state is Scary. It's almost a Slash and Burn process and they are so oblivious to the fact they are the problem.
Maybe you should actually read it. That is dated March 31 and clearly says at that time they were still studying not recommending guidelines for general public to wear masksShould We All Be Wearing Masks In Public? Health Experts Revisit The Question
There are rumblings that U.S. health officials may start encouraging Americans to wear face masks to cut down on asymptomatic spread. But with continued shortages, it's not clear how we'd do that.
Might want to read this .....
It also says
In fact, randomized controlled trials — considered the gold standard for testing the effectiveness of an intervention — are limited, and the results from those trials were inconclusive, says Feng.
But Feng points out that randomized clinical trials have not shown significant effects for hand hygiene either. "But for mechanistic reasons, we believe hygiene can be a good way to kill pathogens, and WHO still recommends hand hygiene," she says.
So they admit that during actual scientific trials the effectiveness of hand washing and masks had both been “inconclusive”
How can the US be the only country that throws this big of a fit when it comes to masks??
Ok. I’m going to assume that research may not be your thing (nothing wrong with that, it's not most other people's thing either as evidenced by people posting medical opinion from March that has since changed), which might deserve a pass. An alternative, though, is that you are either willing to either deceive others or, worse yet, deceive yourself to try to make a point. I don't think that's the case here, but it is certainly something to guard against in today's political climate.
First, and this is not up for debate, Montana gets 3 electors (not 1) for its 1,069,000 people and California gets 55 (not 53) for its 39,500,00 people.
That means for Montana, every elector represents 356,333 people. For California, every elector represents 718,181 people. That is around twice the voting power for each Montanan’s (American citizens) vote as compared to each Californian’s (American citizens) votes. This is indisputable. Math is not subject to the whims of politics.
As for the U.S. being a republic, you might have noticed in an earlier post that I referred to it as such. A republic is a representative (or elective) democracy and the representatives we elect to make our laws are called....representatives and senators. Electors as put forth in the Constitution are not representatives; in fact, in the Constitution itself, nowhere does it say they even have to consider the popular vote, and indeed, the founders wanted them to vote independently and vote their conscience, which, by definition is not representative democracy.
Now, some individual states (but not all) have made laws that say electors must choose who their state’s popular vote went to or the vote is canceled and a new elector casts the vote. However, for 20 states, there is either no penalty at all or there is a fine, but regardless, the electoral votes count as cast no matter how the state’s popular vote went.
And, in any case, the way it works now is not how the system was designed or intended to work, which should probably matter to people who consider themselves constitutionalists or constitutional originalists. Read the Federalist Papers (particularly #68) and Madison’s Constitutional Convention notes if you need more proof of the founders’ intentions with the electoral college. Courts cases have ruled in favor of the states' ability to allocate their electors as they see fit, but
If you want to talk further about the electoral college, you’ll want to read up before that conversation, because it might be more productive if you are acquainted with the issue before talking about it (and I would recommend multiple sources and perspectives, so here are a couple to get you started): https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...ge-founding-fathers-constitutional-convention
https://electoralvotemap.com/winner-take-all-electoral-college/ (this one has pro and con type articles at the bottom).
You’ll also note that nowhere in this novel of a post did I mention the president (until just now, obviously). He is immaterial to the argument, and I don’t personally hate the man. One thing we should get out of all of this is that disagreement on policy does not equate to personal hatred. For many it does, of course, and that's a sad testament to the state of American politics. Conflating disagreement with hatred does do one thing that people nowadays really like though: it simplifies how much thinking and reflection one has to do when defending one's positions. That is also a sad state of affairs.
Finally, you may note that nowhere in here did I insult you or your positions, the president or his followers, call you names, or any of a myriad of behaviors that many grown adults now deem acceptable that they don't find acceptable in their children's behavior. I believe that people can be reasoned with, even if they maybe can't be convinced, and in any case that their humanity should be respected and not stereotyped.
Basically, what you are saying here is that you and the people you know in your region are the arbiter of what is "radical" and what is "orthodox." The not so subtle implication is that your way of thinking is somehow more valid than people in other regions. You might see that this is a problematic point of view...since each individual person thinks differently, even within your region. You are also saying that one region of our country is somehow more important than another region. This is the very myopia that you accuse others of, which is fine, as long as you own it; you are certainly entitled to your point of view.
According to the 2016 presidential election, 32% of the voters in California likely agree with you on many, if not most, issues. That is a large number of people that you think their votes should count for less than yours (they do) due to the fact that they live in California. You might also think about it this way, the nearly 40% of Missourians who vote differently than you also have more proportional voting power than those 32% in California who vote the same as you.
On indoctrination, here's my question: which culture in the entire history of the world didn't attempt to indoctrinate its members into its way of thinking? Is that not, when viewed objectively (a difficult state of mind to achieve), how you teach "values?" That is indoctrination, any way you slice it. So what you meant to say is something closer to this: "when large groups of people do not think the way that I individually do and do not believe what i individually believe and do not indoctrinate their children in the same way that I individually do, I consider them "radical," and, therefore, their opinions matter less than mine with respect to who should lead the country." That would be more honest and sincere.
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anon_utvqikut1knht
Guest
IF we do not learn to live with this ALL these sports will go BANKRUPT within 1-2 years. Pro sports CANNOT exist without packed stands more than MAYBE one year. The NFL pays out salaries so exorbitant they may not be able to make it to next year if this all continues. CASES, again, are MEANINGLESS. Hospitalizations and deaths are all that matter. HOPEFULLY America awakens and votes accordingly...................
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anon_utvqikut1knht
Guest
Flatten the curve became "until there are no more cases". News flash: THERE WILL BE CASES OF SOME FORM OF COVID 19 FOR ALL ETERNITY. The genie is out of the lantern.
No
Montana gets 2 electors because they are a state. Every state gets 2
They get one more to represent their population.
California gets their 2 for being a state,,, then a crapload more to represent their population which is a crapload larger than Montanas
It’s a perfect system
Yes, and only the very naive will believe that this is China's last and only foray into biological weaponry. My guess is there are others in the pipeline that are more serious and more deadly. I think it easy to construct a case that this was retaliation for Trump stopping their raiding of the American piggy bank and they could see him sailing to an easy repeat of 2016 with all of the economic progress, among many other things. This was a prospect that did not appeal to those in charge. They maybe were attempting to assist those who oppose him?
I am not sure what we are fighting about so I thought I would at least put my hat in the ring to try to understand the fight...
The Connecticut Compromise provided a dual system of congressional representation. In the House of Representatives each state would be assigned a number of seats in proportion to its population.
California is the most populous U.S. state and as a result has the most representation in the United States House of Representatives, with 53 Representatives. Each Representative represents one congressional district.
In the Senate, all states would have the same number of seats.
Just like every other state they have 2 senators
The Electoral College was an ingenious compromise, allowing the popular election of the president, but on a state-by-state basis. Citizens vote for president, with the winner in each state taking all the state’s electoral votes based on the number of seats that state has in the Senate and House combined. In this sense, the Electoral College is no more “undemocratic” than is the Senate or the Supreme Court. Without this large vs. small state compromise, the Convention of 1787 may not have succeeded. Without this system, states such as Wyoming, Vermont, Alaska, the Dakotas, and Delaware might never see a presidential candidate.
Please I'm not going to insult you or your believes. I'm not going down the mask debate with anyone but please with all of the world wide experts who have looked at this (the cause of this virus and where it came from) and they all say that it is not man made. How is it possible for all of them to be wrong? How is that most of Europe is locking down again if China was just out to get Trump?
Again I'm just asking two questions so I can understand. It is perfectly acceptable to me if you disagree with me but I'm unsure how people who study viruses their whole life are so wrong and rando people (no offense by that comment but as far as a virus specialist I don't know if "Missouri Kid" is one!) can be 100% sure that it is. If it is man made how is the demolition of the world's economy beneficial to china anyway?
Respectful disagreement is never a bad thing. In fact, its good. Today it seems a lot of people just want to yell at anyone that has a contrary view. Traveling this weekend, may revisit this topic later.
And, no, I'm not a virus specialist but I do have a little experience at espionage, counter-espionage and insurgency.
Good God liberal “men” are an absolute embarrassment to men all over this country.
I can understand women being offended by Trump, but all these so called men running around with their arms flailing around like a 15 year old girl who was just dumped is truly comical.
I can understand women being offended by Trump, but all these so called men running around with their arms flailing around like a 15 year old girl who was just dumped is truly comical.
tons of kids out last night for Halloween. I bet that really pisses a lot of folks off on this board
We got 62 kids last night. Seemed really slow in my neighborhood
Probably not the worst thing you've had...right Bosko? Heheh...I'm sure you caught worse things in your school days... (wink wink)
Newflash..the European countries are going back into lockdown. Masks don't work, never have.
So doctors and nurses wear masks during surgery for looks?
You clearly don't see my point....every Region etc. has that outlook per say about other regions. I 100% agree that the East/West coast see the mid west and South as radical and they as orthodox and vice a versa. That human nature and the way of civilization.
How do you keep a Republic together if there is a huge divide in culture, beliefs and the way of the economic structure and the smaller population group is at the mercy of a Mob rule vote democracy? You have a electoral college to balance that effect. If not then the smaller population area's might well look to dissolve the Union, already a lot of sentiment in the Red regions for that..
The fact is I agree with a lot of your post....Cultures try to indoctrinate, other Cultures resist, I agree that there are people in other regions I agree with and so forth. The issue is that the EC tries to balance that out at least on a symbolic nature.
Do away with the EC and then that might be the last nail in the coffin of this Union.
The is no "Go on" here because doctors and nurses wear masks during surgery because masks work! The science is sound. Are they 100% effective, no. Do they help reduce the spread of germs? Absolutely.
Ask any surgeon you know--a year ago-- if a mask will prevent a virus from spreading. After they chuckle, they will tell you, NO Fing way.
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