Real 8 Man Question, hopefully with minimal trolling responses.....
- Thread starter vandyfan1313
- Start date
Careful Joe. Shoot might get angry
I know Gollum in a Tux. Gollum in a Tux is a friend of mine. You, silly (not worthy of a capital "S"), are no Gollum in a Tux.
Oh man. Wait until Shoot reads these posts. He is gonna lose it!
The schools that have a rich history of 8 man may have enough guys out to do 11 man, but most schools that are 8 man don't have enough numbers to do it. That is the reason, the state allows three schools to coop for 8 man purposes. 8 man is not easier than 11 man, they each have their own qualities. Most schools that make the switch to 8 man realize quick that it isn't the same game. I have coached both for a long time. The thing about 8 man, it is all about quickness. There is no where to hide a slug. You can hide a slug or two in 11 man and still get away with it if your quick over the top.
@vandyfan1313 , who would you like to see in 8-man in NEMO? Schools like Atlanta, LaPlata etc who don't have football at all, or the Knox County, Scotland County etc types? Just curious.
LaPlata did play at one time and was in the Quint City Conference back in the 50s. Quint City was the precursor to the CCC.
You're darn right I'm gonna lose it!! That is NOT Star Trek. It is Star WARS
Paris, Van-far, Clopton, Louisiana, Wellsville and Community would be a good start
If 8 man is about numbers then why not make a rule restricting the number of players a squad can have or they will be moved to 11 man Class 1? I have personally seen schools drop to 8 man with 25 kids out saying they did it because they did not have enough linemen (counter point who does in 1A?). So what is wrong with making a maximum number or 24 the cut off for 8 man? That would be the equivalent of a Class 1 school having 33.
Existing programs like Louisiana, Paris, Schuyler, Van Far, Harrisburg, & MMA would all benefit immensely right now based on their recent roster numbers, and would love to see new schools like Wellsville, Community, La Plata, and Sturgeon add it too. Long term Knox and Scotland will probably face a numbers situation too.
I think the biggest reason 8 man is mistakenly viewed as a cop out right now is because there are so few teams. Like every other classification in the state, the upper echelon is very competitive, but the bottom third or so is not. Unfortunately, when you only have 23 teams (27 this year), the bottom third sticks out a little bit more and makes the classification as a whole look like an easier trek. Also the fact that unlike most states, the schools choose to play in that classification rather than being assigned to it by the state athletic association.
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If you're going to do that, you open yourself up to teams making cuts just to get in under the limit, and then the question should also get raised at every classification. If you're a class 1 with 40 kids, why not play class 2, and so forth.....
I have always heard it is a real nice town.
It's a dump compared to West Canaan.
Are you saying that schools with 15 kids out for football should play 11 man? Do you know how a practice works with 15 kids for 11 man football? I have first hand-knowledge. No amount of half-line you can do prepares you for a full 11 on 11 game. How about when, like every football season, the inevitable injuries happen and you're down to 11 players (and not 11 fully healthy players) for an 11 man game (or games, as the case was)? I also have first-hand knowledge of that. It isn't safe.
Let's just say you have 25 players to begin a season. I've had that too. Guess what? We didn't end up with 25 healthy players by the end of the season. We ended up with 16. That is normal. Football is a numbers game as a result of attrition that happens every single year. The attrition that happens in small schools hurts them much more than when it happens in even slightly larger schools.
MSHSAA has an attendance requirement for schools wanting to play 8-man. If a school wants to play 8-man and is eligible to play it based on its attendance, who (other than you, apparently) cares? It's not an affront to your (or their) manhood. It isn't a personal attack on your values or "American Values" nor is it a symptom of societal decline. It is arithmetic. On the other hand, if a school wants to keep playing 11-man, who cares? Objectively, does it make them somehow better than a school choosing to play 8-man? No, it's just a different choice. Congratulations if you made it this far.
Did a 8 man season with 10 kids one of the 10 had down syndrome and seizures. Played several games with 7 kids put a injured at wide receiver and had him stand there. Did a 11 man season with 17. Played in a conference with class 1 to 5. Not fun trying plug kids into games that shouldn't be there because that is all you got left.
Thank you for making my point. Your team overcame adversity and instead of crying about your lack of numbers stepped up and fulfilled your conference obligations. That takes a lot of grit especially in this day of everybody gets a trophy-8 man generation. Success is not only measured by wins or loses but also by teaching young people that standing up and meeting challenges no matter how great builds character.
Here, here! Im starting to like this guy!
Glad to know as most coaches today are concerned with ways to make the game safer, such as finding ways to give kids breaks during games and having proper time to develop them as athletes instead of throwing them in the deep end as freshmen before they are physically ready that you have no such concerns. You are a credit to ignorance, because after all, we're not teaching them toughness in 8 man. They don't learn how to block, tackle, be a good teammate, lift properly, overcome physical shortcomings or adversity, because after all, every 8 man team is winning 7-14 games, no one has a losing record ever. And none of my kids have a chance to play in all star games or college or anything, it's too different. By no means do they have any advantage because the game speed is faster. After all, we're not a classification of football, every other classification of football is ok by size, but not 8 man....... Sarcastic rant over......
If you don't want to have your team play at that level, fine. But don't for a minute think that 8 man coaches aren't teaching the same lessons you are. To quote one of our local reporters: "football isn't football because you put exactly 11 guys on the field. It's essence is the lessons learned in struggle and in concert with teammates to accomplish a shared and difficult goal that prep you for life beyond the game. A classroom beyond the classroom, not a meaningless "sport."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/American football
Definition of American football
: an American game that is played between two teams of 11 players each and in which the ball is moved forward by running or passing
Because overcoming adversity can't happen in 8-man football, right? Here's a question: Why do we have classifications? This is not rhetorical, I'm interested in your answer.
I couldn't help but notice the modifier "American" in front of the word "football." Since you aren't allowing the modifier "8-man" to stand, I'll show you the definition of the word "football" without the modifier "American." Also, I'd like to point out, that definitions fluctuate and often outright change over time because they aren't objective and monolithic.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/football
Football
1: any of several games played between two teams on a usually rectangular field having goalposts or goals at each end and whose object is to get the ball over a goal line, into a goal, or between goalposts by running, passing, or kicking.
I gather by your memes and platitudes and use of emotional appeals that you have given up attempting a logical defense of your position. It's not your fault; there was no logical defense possible.
Entertaining thread, but the word you're looking for is "lightNING." I'm not sure why that word is misspelled so often. I mean seriously, have you ever heard anyone pronounce the word light-en-ning?
Im a retired steel worker, not an English teacher there buddy! But for your knowledge, it is a word.
Lightening - a drop in the level of the uterus during the last weeks of pregnancy as the head of the fetus engages in the pelvis.
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That is an image forever imprinted into my brain now. Thanks.
Peter Quill
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the older generation at the time mused about the wussification of American youth when plastic helmets and face masks were introduced. I think it's pretty obvious that plastic helmets and face masks were invented so everyone gets a trophy, or whatever the phrase of the moment is.
In my humble opinion the purpose of the MSHSAA Classification system as it applies to high school football is to create a pool of similar size schools based upon student population in the hopes of creating a fair platform in which student-athletes may compete.
I look at schools that have made the magical jump from 11 man to 8 man because of “lack of numbers or linemen” and many of them have larger populations than the schools on their schedule they are running from. Any school who jumps from 8 and 11 year to year makes it really tough on everybody and diminishes the value of the 8 man game, for the simple fact the perception becomes if you can’t win 5 in 11 just go 8 man.
A class 1 team has 9 games scheduled with opponents who have guaranteed them to play. The school has taken that schedule and set up Parents night, Senior night, Homecoming, Cheerleader functions, band functions, community activities, and so on. This class 1 school finds out in June that a handful of their opponents now magically only 20-24 kids out and have to play 8 man funny thing is in previous years these opponents were at the top of the conference with less than 24 kids playing 11 man.
What you're telling me is that it has nothing to do in actuality with a perception that you are somehow building better character through adversity than is being done at these other schools. It doesn't even have much to do with a perception that 8-man is less-than. Basically, this is about you being angry about other schools' perfectly legal choice (given to them by the state's athletic sanctioning body) to change to 8-man. Further, your perception is that they could have continued to function in 11-man but chose to compete in 8-man because they thought they could win more games.
My question here is this: what evidence do you have that this is the case, other than your outside perceptions? I understand the sentiments you have shown, somewhat, especially regarding the scheduling issues; however, my feeling is maybe just worry about your own team and work through the adversity that the scheduling issue has caused so as to be an example to your team to whom you are teaching to work through adversity.
