Is Cohen a member of the "Deep State"?
- Thread starter Duck_walk
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The Manafort trial got weird. The jurors sent the judge a note asking what they should do if they can't get a unanimous decision on 1 of the 18 counts. The judge told them to go back and try some more. Then they come back and say they can't get a unanimous decision on 10 of the 18 counts. The judge says bring me your verdict sheet and he accepts their guilty verdict on 8 of the 18 counts and calls a mistrial on the other 10. How the heck can you go from no verdict on 1 count to no verdict on 10 counts AND the judge decides that's the sheet he'll accept? What happened when they went back to talk about the 1 they could not agree on to change their mind on 9 more?
The coming tweets will be interesting and the Cohen thang is a state level deal that Trump can't pardon him for. Sounds like Cohen is not interested in anything Trump these days anyway.
Watching the news this morning and it talked about how Cohen had a huge change of heart for his country.....LOL yeah that is what happened.
I don't think you can trust anything said by the guy who says anyone won't accept a pardon......not that one would be offered. "No thanks, i'll rot in prison", sounds reasonable.
Why do they keep talking about a pardon for Cohen. All I've heard for the last year is that Trump can't pardon anyone in a state case, only a federal case. Has that changed this week?
They were the very best people for the job which was to get Trump elected president of the United States
Every other person on both sides were sourounded by clueless fools
The President of the United States can pardon anyone in the US for anything. Quit watching CNN!
First off let me apologize for correcting you, but...
Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states as follows:
The President…shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.
In general, a pardon is the act of forgiving a crime. A pardon nullifies punishments or other legal consequences of a crime. However, a presidential pardon does not expunge a crime or remedy the past act. In other words, the crime can still be taken into consideration against the wrongdoer (e.g. on a job application or when giving a sentence for a different crime). For example, if the pardoned person is later tried for a similar crime, the pardoned crime may be taken into consideration when giving the sentence for the new crime. The pardon does not blot out the past.
One key thing to keep in mind: Presidential pardons only apply to federal criminal acts against the United States.
So, the president cannot pardon a person for violations of any federal civil laws or state criminal or civil laws. For example, if a person commits armed robbery at a local gas station and is convicted under state law for armed robbery, that person cannot receive a presidential pardon. Why? Because that person committed a state criminal act, not a federal criminal act. However, if that person also robbed a U.S. post office (a federal facility), then he or she could petition the president for a pardon of the robbery at the U.S. post office.
Presidential pardons can be granted anytime after an offense has been committed including before, during, or after a conviction for the offense. If granted before a conviction is given, it prevents any penalties from attaching to the person. If granted after a conviction, it removes the penalties, and restores the person to all his or her civil rights. However, a pardon can never be granted before an offense has been committed – because the president does not have the power to waive the laws.
Furthermore, because the power of the presidential pardon comes directly from the U.S. Constitution, it cannot modified, diminished or altered by any laws passed by Congress, except by an amendment to the Constitution (which is generally very difficult to do). Also, the president has unlimited pardon power, except in cases of impeachment. This means the president can pardon as many individuals as he or she wants for any federal criminal acts against the United States, unless that individual has been impeached by Congress (which is also very rare).
I see in the commentary part what you claim but it isn't in the Article II Section 2 part. Take out the commentary provided and show me where it says that.
I figured it out this evening that the Cohen case that Mueller handed off to FEDERAL prosecutors in the Southern District of NY. I was confusing that with handing it off to the state of NY to prosecute. Now the AG for the state of NY IS looking at Cohen AND the Trump organization for tax issues. The Trump organization and the Foundation may the ones in real trouble there.
Miller I really couldn't believe that the many different people I've seen on TV that say the president can't pardon people for state crimes were all wrong and went unchallenged when they made that statement so I googled presidential pardon powers. It says he can pardon anyone for crimes against the United States. It also says he CANNOT pardon people for state level crimes so I guess all those folks I've seen say that on TV were right and YOU are not.
You seem shocked that Miller was wrong. That's just normal
Thats the law. You're wrong again. President cannot pardon state crimes
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions
Go read the section about Presidents and State convictions. You're welcome
Go read the section about Presidents and State convictions. You're welcome
You are really hardheaded.
In the United States, the pardon power for federal crimes is granted to the President of the United States under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment ...
Can the president pardon anyone for anything?
Why US presidents can pardon anyone. ... It says the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." So as long as it doesn't have to do with impeachment, most federal, but not state, crimes are fair game for pardoning.
Can the president pardon a state felony?
Under the Constitution, only federal criminal convictions, such as those adjudicated in the United States District Courts, may be pardoned by the President. ... However, the President cannot pardon a state criminal offense.
U.S. Constitution - Article 2 Section 2
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 - Civilian Power Over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 - Civilian Power Over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
I don't reckon I know about all presidential pardons, I'm just saying the constitution, as Google stats it, says he can't. Is Google wrong? Do you know of people that were given pardons for state crimes?
Since we seem to have numerous smug feeling liberals citing CNN, Wikipedia, Google, etc., I have listed the part of the CONSTITUTION regarding Presidential pardons. It says the President can pardon ANYONE who has been charged with offenses against the UNITED STATES. Notice it doesn't say offenses prosecuted in federal court, offenses prosecuted by federal attorneys, or offenses against federal regulations.
Are murder, bank fraud, stealing, child abuse, etc. not crimes in the US? The President cannot pardon someone for a crime committed in England! He has no authority there.
So, I once again ask the question no libs seem to want to answer. Have Presidents only pardoned people who were convicted in federal court by federal prosecutors, for federal crimes?
I do not think Trump will, needs to, or should pardon Manafort or anyone else for crimes unless there is a VERY good reason but, he quite simply can.....as other Presidents have.
Hey expert, have Presidents pardoned only those convicted of federal crimes or not?
You and that don't answer the question i've asked. Neither has anyone else. Here's a clue, it's yes or no.
I'll play along and say NO so you can tell us what president pardoned somebody for a state crime, who that person was and what the crime was.
Reading.....you should give it a try. Directly copied from the Justice Department
Does the President have authority to grant clemency for a state conviction?
No. The President’s clemency power is conferred by Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides: “The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” Thus, the President’s authority to grant clemency is limited to federal offenses and offenses prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Columbia in the name of the United States in the D.C. Superior Court. An offense that violates a state law is not an offense against the United States. A person who wishes to seek a pardon or a commutation of sentence for a state offense should contact the authorities of the state in which the conviction occurred. Such state authorities are typically the Governor or a state board of pardons and/or paroles, if the state government has created such a board.
As you are both well aware, that is not an answer to the question you keep avoiding.
I appreciate your answer (which shows your ignorance), but i'll wait for the "experts" to quit avoiding the question before I do that.
What specifically was not answered?
You said Presidents can pardon anything...... Justice department says no
You are trying to argue that state crimes \ convictions are crimes against the US...... Justice department says no
It literally outlines where the President does not have the authority to pardon state crimes. That falls to the governor or state board
You said Presidents can pardon anything...... Justice department says no
You are trying to argue that state crimes \ convictions are crimes against the US...... Justice department says no
It literally outlines where the President does not have the authority to pardon state crimes. That falls to the governor or state board
Miller has been so wrong, on so many things, so often that it is best to put him on ignore so you don;t become dumber by reading his posts.
I know EXACTLY what it says! I also know what has been done.
The question you refuse to answer is (one more time) this: Are you saying that past Presidents have never pardoned people that weren't prosecuted in federal courts by federal prosecutors. You keep saying it can't be done but you won't say it hasn't been done. Precedent being such an important thing to liberals, you surely would acknowledge if other Presidents have done it, Trump could too. No?
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That would be the best way to not have to be confronted with questions you don't want to answer.
While talking about pardons, how about that Roger Clinton pardon.....I wonder who would issue that?
Not that that is the only pardon issued by Clinton that wreaks of injustice.
Not that that is the only pardon issued by Clinton that wreaks of injustice.
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I would plead guilty to ignorance of whether or not a president has eve pardoned a person for state level crime, I couldn't come anywhere near telling what president has pardoned what person fro federal crimes. All I KNOW is what the constitution says about presidential pardon powers. If a president gave a pardon to someone for a state crime seems too me the justice department would not have had tp let them go. So genius tell all of us dummies who gave a pardon to whom for a state crime? After asking the same question so many times maybe YOU should give the answer, then explain how that happened in violation of the constitution?
All you really know is what you,ve been told the Constitution says. Why do you think it is so important to keep stating that Trump can't? If he couldn't, there would be no need to insist.
Patience, surely you can get some of your "more studied" buddies to say precedent is irrelevant here or state that it has never happened before. After being insulted by many numerous times, i'm entitled to nail them.
Use this time to dig a little for yourself! There are only thousands of pardons to look through but, it won't take that long. Maybe you can learn that CNN CAN'T be trusted.
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