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Frisco League Discussion

Saturday's Schedule
Consolation Finals
#7 Crocker vs #8 Plato 12:00 PM
#2 Newburg vs #4 Stoutland 3:00 PM
#1 Licking vs #3 Richland 6:00 PM
 
Richland has two blow out wins so far but I have to go with Licking. They're used to winning big games and are probably in the heads of all the Frisco teams with their history of conference dominance.

Newburg needs to win the third place game if they're going to stay ranked. It's early but just by looking at scores Stoutland seems a little off right now. I say Newburg wins that one.

Good showing for the 7 and 8 seeds. Crocker is 4-1 with the loss to Newburg and wins against teams they usually beat. Plato is 2-2 but their losses are Licking and Salem. No clue on this one. I'll guess Plato just to not wimp out with a no-pick.
 
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mohsbballfan said:
Richland has two blow out wins so far but I have to go with Licking. They're used to winning big games and are probably in the heads of all the Frisco teams with their history of conference dominance.

Newburg needs to win the third place game if they're going to stay ranked. It's early but just by looking at scores Stoutland seems a little off right now. I say Newburg wins that one.

Good showing for the 7 and 8 seeds. Crocker is 4-1 with the loss to Newburg and wins against teams they usually beat. Plato is 2-2 but their losses are Licking and Salem. No clue on this one. I'll guess Plato just to not wimp out with a no-pick.
Click to expand...

0-2
 
I sure hope the championship games have better officiating than what I’ve witnessed for the opening rounds and semi final rounds. These officials should be ashamed of themselves. There’s no reason for the number of fouls that have been called during this tournament, especially on the girls side. Some of the teams had to have shot at least 25-30 free throws in several games, sometimes the first half it seemed. Yes I rarely, if ever, gripe about officials. But officiating in the Frisco League has progressively gotten worse and worse. I understand that officials are packing up their whistles because of unruly parents, but with performances like those in the Frisco League lately, one can easily sympathize with some of those loud mouthed parents. The only thing this type of officiating does is penalize good defense and hustle. It causes players to be lazy on defense and lazy in rebounding. Kids are scared to death to make any contact for fear of the officials’ whistle. It is also one of the main factors contributing to the heckling behavior of parents. If the officiating associations want to see more officials come into their organizations, they need to reign in the nonsense calls made by those officials within their ranks! Plato girls were robbed of a trophy today because of the officials. Don’t get me wrong. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone will miss a call here and there, but officials anymore seem to want to penalize the players on the floor that work the hardest. Many times they make the call out of anticipation. They believe there’s no way the player can make the play, they anticipate the player committing a foul, and they blow the whistle because of this anticipation. Then, because of pride or whatever else, they will never rescind the call once that whistle has been blown. Even if they know the call is the wrong call, they will double down on it and not admit they’re wrong.
The Licking and Richland girls game was much more of the same. Katelyn Cole found herself in foul trouble once again. It’s not because she just goes out there bullying and slapping and hacking. She plays an aggressive type of hard nosed defense and the officials just don’t like it. She wasn’t punished for it so much during the Newburg game. However, the other player in the league that plays the same type of defense as Katelyn is Claire Affolter of Newburg. Both of these girls are punished consistently by officials for nothing other than having a defensive style that offends the officials sensibility. Girls like these two should be rewarded, not penalized. If they do indeed foul, then by all means make the call. But don’t simply anticipate a foul and blow the whistle because you think they are probably going to foul. Karlee Holland also plays an aggressive type of defense but she is much more likely to not be singled out by the officials. I think this has to do with her elite status in the air and officials are more likely to give her a pass.
I’ll get off my soap box now.
 
oldschoolmo said:
I sure hope the championship games have better officiating than what I’ve witnessed for the opening rounds and semi final rounds. These officials should be ashamed of themselves. There’s no reason for the number of fouls that have been called during this tournament, especially on the girls side. Some of the teams had to have shot at least 25-30 free throws in several games, sometimes the first half it seemed. Yes I rarely, if ever, gripe about officials. But officiating in the Frisco League has progressively gotten worse and worse. I understand that officials are packing up their whistles because of unruly parents, but with performances like those in the Frisco League lately, one can easily sympathize with some of those loud mouthed parents. The only thing this type of officiating does is penalize good defense and hustle. It causes players to be lazy on defense and lazy in rebounding. Kids are scared to death to make any contact for fear of the officials’ whistle. It is also one of the main factors contributing to the heckling behavior of parents. If the officiating associations want to see more officials come into their organizations, they need to reign in the nonsense calls made by those officials within their ranks! Plato girls were robbed of a trophy today because of the officials. Don’t get me wrong. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone will miss a call here and there, but officials anymore seem to want to penalize the players on the floor that work the hardest. Many times they make the call out of anticipation. They believe there’s no way the player can make the play, they anticipate the player committing a foul, and they blow the whistle because of this anticipation. Then, because of pride or whatever else, they will never rescind the call once that whistle has been blown. Even if they know the call is the wrong call, they will double down on it and not admit they’re wrong.
The Licking and Richland girls game was much more of the same. Katelyn Cole found herself in foul trouble once again. It’s not because she just goes out there bullying and slapping and hacking. She plays an aggressive type of hard nosed defense and the officials just don’t like it. She wasn’t punished for it so much during the Newburg game. However, the other player in the league that plays the same type of defense as Katelyn is Claire Affolter of Newburg. Both of these girls are punished consistently by officials for nothing other than having a defensive style that offends the officials sensibility. Girls like these two should be rewarded, not penalized. If they do indeed foul, then by all means make the call. But don’t simply anticipate a foul and blow the whistle because you think they are probably going to foul. Karlee Holland also plays an aggressive type of defense but she is much more likely to not be singled out by the officials. I think this has to do with her elite status in the air and officials are more likely to give her a pass.
I’ll get off my soap box now.
Click to expand...

What association?
 
Last time I checked any contact in basketball was a foul, if you go by the rule bookz
 
Hoopsquad20 said:
Should the Plato half court shot have counted for the win at the end of regulation?
Click to expand...
The official on that side was in my line-of-sight and he called it off as soon as she shot the ball, before it went in. I'm sure the Plato fans thought he was wrong and the Crocker fans thought he was right. I'd have to say it was probably the game of the tournament as far as excitement.
 
Yes, Plato shot should have counted. Someone with video of the game allowed Marv and Gary (radio announcers) to view the footage. Marv and Gary thought it looked like it should have counted before seeing the video. The video only confirmed what they had originally thought, and that is that the basket should have counted.
 
chs_02 said:
Last time I checked any contact in basketball was a foul, if you go by the rule bookz
Click to expand...

Maybe you should go back and re-read the rule book. And if you’re reading a rule book that states that incidental contact that gives neither player an advantage is considered a foul, then you are reading a work of fiction. And maybe it’s people like you that have read these so-called “rule books” that have decided to enter the officiating world. You are wrong, as are most officials. Contact should be perceived as illegal if it gives one player an advantage over the other. There are so many other rules that most fans, and most officials, don’t understand. Let me guess...this rule book that you speak of probably says “over the back” is a foul, a kick ball is a dead ball, any movement on defense constitutes a block and cannot be a player control foul on offensive player due to defense’s movement, or my favorite...”reaching” by the defense is a foul. Every single one of these examples are WRONG! Yet I witness these calls all the time and constantly hear spectators yell such nonsense out.
Chs_02...I’m very curious what rule book you’re referencing. It would be an interesting read.
 
I think it’s fantastic that Plato and Crocker played in the consolation game. Plato was seeded 8th and Crocker seeded 7th. If I remember correctly, Hoopsquad20 thought it was nuts for Plato to be 8th. I, for one, thought it was nuts that Crocker was 7th. Seems that the coaches didn’t do so well seeding the teams this year. I guess they nailed the #1 seed and the #9 seed.
 
How about Stoutland knocking off #2 Newburg with a starter and 6th man quitting on Thursday. It was nice to see them finish the tourney on a high note.
 
oldschoolmo said:
Maybe you should go back and re-read the rule book. And if you’re reading a rule book that states that incidental contact that gives neither player an advantage is considered a foul, then you are reading a work of fiction. And maybe it’s people like you that have read these so-called “rule books” that have decided to enter the officiating world. You are wrong, as are most officials. Contact should be perceived as illegal if it gives one player an advantage over the other. There are so many other rules that most fans, and most officials, don’t understand. Let me guess...this rule book that you speak of probably says “over the back” is a foul, a kick ball is a dead ball, any movement on defense constitutes a block and cannot be a player control foul on offensive player due to defense’s movement, or my favorite...”reaching” by the defense is a foul. Every single one of these examples are WRONG! Yet I witness these calls all the time and constantly hear spectators yell such nonsense out.
Chs_02...I’m very curious what rule book you’re referencing. It would be an interesting read.
Click to expand...

Blow your whistle! Somebody gonna get hurt out there!
 
It looked like she didn't get it off in time. It's all subjective. All I know is that there was 2.5 seconds when she caught it. She had to dribble around the defender, took at least 3 dribbles before she shot the ball. To me, that isn't enough time.
 
Last edited:
oldschoolmo said:
Maybe you should go back and re-read the rule book. And if you’re reading a rule book that states that incidental contact that gives neither player an advantage is considered a foul, then you are reading a work of fiction. And maybe it’s people like you that have read these so-called “rule books” that have decided to enter the officiating world. You are wrong, as are most officials. Contact should be perceived as illegal if it gives one player an advantage over the other. There are so many other rules that most fans, and most officials, don’t understand. Let me guess...this rule book that you speak of probably says “over the back” is a foul, a kick ball is a dead ball, any movement on defense constitutes a block and cannot be a player control foul on offensive player due to defense’s movement, or my favorite...”reaching” by the defense is a foul. Every single one of these examples are WRONG! Yet I witness these calls all the time and constantly hear spectators yell such nonsense out.
Chs_02...I’m very curious what rule book you’re referencing. It would be an interesting read.
Click to expand...

not an official, just a basketball purist. If there is contact, it is a foul, period. The defensive player should not make any contact with the offensive player and vice-versa. Basketball has become entirely to rough, especially under the basket and I’m tired of seeing it. Players aren’t being penalized for being aggressive, they are being penalized for breaking the rules. And for your reading pleasure, the NFHS rules on contact:


SECTION 7 CONTACT
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.
ART. 2 . . . A player shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball.
ART. 3 . . . A player shall not use his/her hands on an opponent in any way that inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent or acts as an aid to a player in starting or stopping.
ART. 4 . . . A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially other than vertically so that freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs. A player may hold his/her hand(s) and arm(s) in front of his/her own face or body for protection and to absorb force from an imminent charge by an opponent.
ART. 5 . . . A player shall not use the forearm and/or hand to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.
ART. 6 . . . Contact caused by a defensive player who approaches from behind is pushing; contact caused by the momentum of a player who has thrown for a goal is charging.
ART. 7 . . . A dribbler shall neither charge into nor contact an opponent in his/her path nor attempt to dribble between two opponents or between an opponent and a boundary, unless the space is such as to provide a reasonable chance for him/ her to go through without contact.
ART. 8 . . . When a dribbler, without contact, sufficiently passes an opponent to have head and shoulders in advance of that opponent, the greater responsibility for subsequent contact is on the opponent.

ART. 9 . . . When a dribbler in his/her progress is moving in a straight-line path, he/she may not be crowded out of that path, but if an opponent is able to legally obtain a defensive position in that path, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his/her dribble.
ART. 10 . . . The dribbler is not permitted additional rights in executing a jump try for goal, pivoting, feinting or in beginning a dribble.
ART. 11 . . . A player shall adhere to the rules pertaining to illegal contact, including but not limited to, guarding as in 4-23, rebounding as in 4-37, screening as in 4-40, and verticality as in 4-45.
ART. 12 . . . The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler. A player becomes a ball handler when he/she receives the ball. This would include a player in a post position.
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.
 
chs_02 said:
not an official, just a basketball purist. If there is contact, it is a foul, period. The defensive player should not make any contact with the offensive player and vice-versa. Basketball has become entirely to rough, especially under the basket and I’m tired of seeing it. Players aren’t being penalized for being aggressive, they are being penalized for breaking the rules. And for your reading pleasure, the NFHS rules on contact:


SECTION 7 CONTACT
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.
ART. 2 . . . A player shall not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball.
ART. 3 . . . A player shall not use his/her hands on an opponent in any way that inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent or acts as an aid to a player in starting or stopping.
ART. 4 . . . A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially other than vertically so that freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs. A player may hold his/her hand(s) and arm(s) in front of his/her own face or body for protection and to absorb force from an imminent charge by an opponent.
ART. 5 . . . A player shall not use the forearm and/or hand to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal.
ART. 6 . . . Contact caused by a defensive player who approaches from behind is pushing; contact caused by the momentum of a player who has thrown for a goal is charging.
ART. 7 . . . A dribbler shall neither charge into nor contact an opponent in his/her path nor attempt to dribble between two opponents or between an opponent and a boundary, unless the space is such as to provide a reasonable chance for him/ her to go through without contact.
ART. 8 . . . When a dribbler, without contact, sufficiently passes an opponent to have head and shoulders in advance of that opponent, the greater responsibility for subsequent contact is on the opponent.

ART. 9 . . . When a dribbler in his/her progress is moving in a straight-line path, he/she may not be crowded out of that path, but if an opponent is able to legally obtain a defensive position in that path, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his/her dribble.
ART. 10 . . . The dribbler is not permitted additional rights in executing a jump try for goal, pivoting, feinting or in beginning a dribble.
ART. 11 . . . A player shall adhere to the rules pertaining to illegal contact, including but not limited to, guarding as in 4-23, rebounding as in 4-37, screening as in 4-40, and verticality as in 4-45.
ART. 12 . . . The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler. A player becomes a ball handler when he/she receives the ball. This would include a player in a post position.
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.
Click to expand...
 
A game called by the book should be an offensive explosion for both sides and every school could save some serious money on weight rooms since strength would be null and void in the game. Coaches and players could spend all their time on fundamentals and shooting practice with no contact. Percentages should soar. :p
 
oldschoolmo said:
Yes, Plato shot should have counted. Someone with video of the game allowed Marv and Gary (radio announcers) to view the footage. Marv and Gary thought it looked like it should have counted before seeing the video. The video only confirmed what they had originally thought, and that is that the basket should have counted.
Click to expand...

Well it can't go back and be changed. It was close regardless. Bang-bang play.
 
3Rfan said:
A game called by the book should be an offensive explosion for both sides and every school could save some serious money on weight rooms since strength would be null and void in the game. Coaches and players could spend all their time on fundamentals and shooting practice with no contact. Percentages should soar and we can return to real basketball where skill and finesse are valued over power and hacking and banging. :p
Click to expand...
fixed
 
Now that the tournament is over, and people have had a chance to digest the games. Anything stand out? Players? Teams? I'll say, Licking's shooting display for the entire tournament was impressive!
 
bird_4_3 said:
There is a bunch of issues at Newburg, lead by a former administrator that wants the school to fail. That is a tough place to be and it will show itself over the course of this year and next year.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. You don't know what you are talking about.
 
bird_4_3 said:
There seems to be a little jealousy from people about the former Newburg coach. He took the 4th or 5th most talented team last year and somehow put no effort in and finished 2nd in the conference...wow, how lucky he was. There is a bunch of issues at Newburg, lead by a former administrator that wants the school to fail. That is a tough place to be and it will show itself over the course of this year and next year.
Click to expand...
Do tell...
 
Saw that Dixon beat Newburg with 5 girls last night. What is happening to the Wolves? Is it just a funk they're in?
 
Any recommendations/ comments on licking summer camp verse others- class 2/3 program rebuilding- starting from scratch.
 
Trying to piece together records is hard when the schools don't report on MSHSAA. There should be a penalty for that, just like not reporting pitch counts in baseball. From what I can gather, here's what I see. In order of how they were seeded.

1. Licking (6-2) Losses to Jeff City and Kickapoo; won FLT and beat St. James. Rematch against Richland is tomorrow.
2. Newburg (4-3) I believe. Beat Russellville, Summersville, Crocker and Belle; lost to Richland, Stoutland (FLT) and Dixon
3. Richland (3-2) Beat Iberia, Newburg (FLT) and Osage; lost to Licking, Steelville
4. Stoutland (3-4) Beat Dixon and Newburg (FLT) and Billings; lost to Macks Creek, Licking, Ava and New Covenant Academy
5. Dixon (2-3) Wins against Bourbon and Newburg; losses to Steelville, Stoutland and Plato (FLT)
6. Iberia (1-5) Win against Laquey; Losses to Linn, Eugene, Richland, Crocker, and Belle
7. Crocker (8-1) Wins against Tuscumbia, Stover, Laquey, Iberia, Plato, Conway, St. Elizabeth, Bourbon; Loss to Newburg
8. Plato (4-2) Wins against Laquey, Dixon, Eminence, Fordland; losses to Licking, Crocker
9. Laquey (0-6) Losses to Climax Springs, Plato, Crocker, Iberia, Niangua, Vienna

If I missed something, please help me correct it. Some intriguing matchups coming up this week.
Richland/Licking Rd. 2
Crocker goes to Steelville
Laquey plays Versailles trying to pick up their first win
Stoutland/Richland have Community Night on Friday
 
Crocker and Steelville shouldn’t be much of an intriguing matchup. Steelville by 25-30 points probably. Although Coach Mueller is pretty crafty. Maybe he’ll pull something out of his hat, but it won’t be enough to overcome Steelville’s 1-3-1.
You mention Newburg beating Russellville. Russellville played Tipton to a fairly close game in the championship of the Tipton Tournament. Tipton is ranked 1st in latest MBCA class 2 poll. And Newburg beat Russellville by around 30 points.
Newburg is playing in the Linn Invitational this week. Unless they have figured some things out, they are going to have a pretty rough week. St. Clair, South Calloway, Eldon, and possibly Linn will all give them fits. Capital City is also there. That’s 2 class 4’s, 2 class 3’s, and 2 class 2’s. Newburg was class 1 last year so they are barely class 2 this year. Obviously they won’t be playing all those teams, but those are the teams that are in the tournament and if Newburg plays any of them, they must play well if they are going to have much success. I agree with Blindside. What the hell has happened to them this year? I understand that they have a first year coach and, with that, comes change. Not sure the change is the wrong change, or whether the girls just haven’t bought into what she is trying to do. Anyone have any inside information on what’s going on? Are the girls just not wanting to accept their role on the team? Since the team is so much larger, are the starters not getting as much floor time to allow for the undeveloped players to get experience? Maybe it’s just another year like last year as Newburg really choked on some games that they should’ve easily won.
According to the Rolla Daily News website, in the Dixon/Newburg game, almost all 5 of Dixon girls scored in double figures. Leads me to believe that Newburg’s defense just isn’t working out for them or else Dixon was simply making everything they threw up. Affolter scored like 27 points and pulled down 29 rebounds. That’s crazy!
So how about the Licking/Richland game tomorrow? Either Licking is gonna be pissed coming off 2 losses and looking to take it out on Richland, or else Licking could be reeling from the 2 losses and Richland pours it on them. Can’t wait to see the game if it’s not canceled. Also can’t wait to see the Steelville/Licking game later in the week (19th I think). Steelville should be pretty darn tough and play Licking to a close game. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Steelville pull off the upset. They play a game that is very similar to Licking and should match up very well. Booker, Church, and Perkins will give Holland, Taylor, and Sullins fits, or vice versa. Just depends on which team happens to be shooting the ball the best that night. Steelville was merciless on Richland, beating them by 20 points.
 
oldschoolmo said:
Crocker and Steelville shouldn’t be much of an intriguing matchup. Steelville by 25-30 points probably. Although Coach Mueller is pretty crafty. Maybe he’ll pull something out of his hat, but it won’t be enough to overcome Steelville’s 1-3-1.
You mention Newburg beating Russellville. Russellville played Tipton to a fairly close game in the championship of the Tipton Tournament. Tipton is ranked 1st in latest MBCA class 2 poll. And Newburg beat Russellville by around 30 points.
Newburg is playing in the Linn Invitational this week. Unless they have figured some things out, they are going to have a pretty rough week. St. Clair, South Calloway, Eldon, and possibly Linn will all give them fits. Capital City is also there. That’s 2 class 4’s, 2 class 3’s, and 2 class 2’s. Newburg was class 1 last year so they are barely class 2 this year. Obviously they won’t be playing all those teams, but those are the teams that are in the tournament and if Newburg plays any of them, they must play well if they are going to have much success. I agree with Blindside. What the hell has happened to them this year? I understand that they have a first year coach and, with that, comes change. Not sure the change is the wrong change, or whether the girls just haven’t bought into what she is trying to do. Anyone have any inside information on what’s going on? Are the girls just not wanting to accept their role on the team? Since the team is so much larger, are the starters not getting as much floor time to allow for the undeveloped players to get experience? Maybe it’s just another year like last year as Newburg really choked on some games that they should’ve easily won.
According to the Rolla Daily News website, in the Dixon/Newburg game, almost all 5 of Dixon girls scored in double figures. Leads me to believe that Newburg’s defense just isn’t working out for them or else Dixon was simply making everything they threw up. Affolter scored like 27 points and pulled down 29 rebounds. That’s crazy!
So how about the Licking/Richland game tomorrow? Either Licking is gonna be pissed coming off 2 losses and looking to take it out on Richland, or else Licking could be reeling from the 2 losses and Richland pours it on them. Can’t wait to see the game if it’s not canceled. Also can’t wait to see the Steelville/Licking game later in the week (19th I think). Steelville should be pretty darn tough and play Licking to a close game. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Steelville pull off the upset. They play a game that is very similar to Licking and should match up very well. Booker, Church, and Perkins will give Holland, Taylor, and Sullins fits, or vice versa. Just depends on which team happens to be shooting the ball the best that night. Steelville was merciless on Richland, beating them by 20 points.
Click to expand...


Licking and Steelville is on for tomorrow, should definitely be a good one, especially on paper, 2 very similar teams. The Richland game could of been an even more lopsided win for Steelville had they made easy ones! School being out all week could definitely have an impact as well, throwing off their rhythms, be fun to see who comes out the most prepared!
 
oldschoolmo said:
Crocker and Steelville shouldn’t be much of an intriguing matchup. Steelville by 25-30 points probably. Although Coach Mueller is pretty crafty. Maybe he’ll pull something out of his hat, but it won’t be enough to overcome Steelville’s 1-3-1.
Click to expand...

Talked to some people from Steelville who were there, and they said it was a 5 point game in the fourth quarter before Steelville pulled away late.
 
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