I would say Midway is more of an outlier. Most schools with a total high school enrollment of 125 are not going to have 41 boys out for football. If you figure half are boys then that is over a 65% participation rate. Kids mindsets when it comes to sports are different from 20 years ago. You can blame parents or whatever but this is how things are now.
Controversy in Slater with
- Thread starter hangmanbobbyjaggers
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It's not like that everywhere.
Midway may end up going 8 man someday for all I know. But you gotta respect them for not caving due to a rough patch.
I think we have to ask why kids mindsets are different then 20 years ago. Likely a topic for another thread but I believe it goes back to all the 'travel' crap and parents.
I called Becky Oakes and she said if they go 8 man they have to take all the decals off their helmets recognizing 11 man titles.
A few schools do go 8 man for legitimate reasons, however a vast majority go to 8 man for the WINS. I would think with Slater's skill players that are returning there will be a strong belief they could contend for a State Title in 8 man.
One would think that with more schools going 8-man all the time, then stiffer the competition should be, if that is what we're after. For a recent while, Class I 11-man was only won by a certain private school on the east side; 8-man may soon be the true Missouri small town title.
To be fair, that private school was playing with a class 3+ talent pool.
Now they can't get out of districts playing in the proper class.
They also won one of the last 4 they were class 1. Even with that advantage.
Can't wait to see them run into Lamar in the playoffs yearly.
This is hilarious. Many of these 11-man schools that drop down to 8-man automatically think they are going to dominate and run the state. Rock Port thought it back in 2012. King City returned 9 starters when they dropped back down in 2016, got rolled by North Andrew week one 48-0. Braymer was awful their first four years in 8-man. It took Greenfield three years to get good at 8-man, they were good for the last two years, went back to 11-man and haven’t recovered since. It took LeBlond until year 3 to start seeing success. Appleton City was good year one followed by two bad years before getting back to .500 this year. Drexel got rolled back to back years in the playoffs by Mound City and SW Livingston before breaking through in 2021 to win state. North Shelby was winless for a decade straight in 11-man, had to rebuild the program from nothing and it took until year 4 before they got any type of respect in 8-man. Ask Sweet Springs, it took them half a season to get settled in and start playing better football come playoff time (and despite making a state semifinal run, they weren’t even a top-10 team).
So tired of hearing people who don’t know what they are talking about when I’m comes to the transition from 11-man to 8-man spout off nonsense. Yes, many teams can see more immediate success. But it’s more than that. It’s competing against schools dealing with the same numbers issues you are. It’s being able to field a JV team to develop the underclassmen. It’s revitalizing the program, school and community. Most importantly, in most cases it is what is right for the kids playing. That’s the most important thing. But some people still view 8-man as beneath them and their community. And that’s just sad.
Most of this isn’t directed at touchdownsilly, just went on a bit of a tangent.
Have any programs that were having great recent playoff success in 11 man ever dropped to 8 man?
Thanks.
What does that have to do with anything? Teams that have playoff success in 11man. aren’t on the verge of losing their program.
completely relevant .
Programs drop down because they can't compete in 11 man.
is it that hard to admit? What's wrong with that?
Sweet Springs was 8-4 in 2021, made the district championship game. Fourth straight .500 or better season. Dropped to 8-man in 2022. Went 8-5 with a district title.
Because it’s not being able to compete that’s the issue. It’s about not having the numbers.
Is that too hard to admit?
Nobody is ducking competition. That’s is almost all schools see minimal success the first few years in 8-man is proof of that.
You keep moving the goalposts.
You keep saying schools are dropping because they can’t compete at 11-man. They are dropping to 8-man because of their low participation numbers make it nearly impossible to be competitive year in, year out.
Hardin Central. Can't say they were a non competitive team. Went for years where they couldn't finish season when we had 4 team districts which basically left that district down to whoever would win between Braymer and Gallatin. They even had to coop with their hated rivals Norborne.
They weren't having success when they dropped.
Before that they'd win lots of playoff games with 16 or so on roster
Hardin-Central did not win lots of playoff games after 92 which was not long after MSHSAA changed from following basketball enrollments to do football districts. Many times they played 8-man games in the late 90s and early 2000s and against JV teams from larger schools. The last two years before the change to 8 man districts they had barely more than 11.
Schools like like Midway and Adrian created great "football culture" in part because they were the biggest dogs in enrollment year in and year out in the WEMO.
A last factor, we now have kids getting scholarships in Shot Gun sports and ESports at the college level.
Times have changed.
Schools like like Midway and Adrian created great "football culture" in part because they were the biggest dogs in enrollment year in and year out in the WEMO.
A last factor, we now have kids getting scholarships in Shot Gun sports and ESports at the college level.
Times have changed.
Lots of the success at adrian and midway came from keeping coaches. Having nutjob school boards running coaches off is what leads to bad programs.
Adrian has had 4 head coaches in 50ish years.
Midway I'm sure is similar.
Compare that to those that had to make the move to 8 man.
Culture
Semi Finals in 8 man compromised of 2 teams that had 30 plus players and 2 that had very comparable rosters to a large number of Class 1 11 man schools. Taking into account geography more than likely none of them would have won an 11 man Class 1 District. If it is not the competition already scheduled and agreed to by both parties then why do so many schools drop last second when they have enough to play 11? If it is a question of numbers then there are schools over 150 that easily fit that bill. Some in Class 2-3 who can barely field teams.
Name on school that dropped at the last minute that had 30 man rosters?
Most of these schools table the idea of dropping to 8man over a 2-3 year period and do so out of need and not want.
Not mention each of those programs had 18 and 23 under classmen respectively. Oddly enough the 8man team with the most seniors is who won state, despite being the smallest team in the semifinals. Just because you 30 players out don't mean you have the depth necessary to play 11 man, and your defiantly not pulling from the same talent pool which is the purpose the the 150 enrollment cap.
My lord. Are you two STILL bickering about 8 man football? Is it boring? Yes. Do SOME teams drop to 8 man because they cant win in 11 man? Yes. Does 8 man football make for a great nap. Absolutely! Now case CLOSED!!
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They don't drop to 8 man when they're good .
That tends to slow their success.
Drexel would have likely not even won districts in the last 4 years in 11 man.
Ponder that one.
My question is whether they drop to 8-man or not for whatever reason, what does it matter? Let me know and I'll be up in arms as soon as CBC or Rockhurst drops their enrollment low enough to play 8-man.
Fine that they drop. Just don't pretend it's for any reason besides not being able to compete in 11 man.
Simple as that.
Whether they are pretending or not, who cares? No, really, who actually cares?
I'm not sure who all is claiming any different, although under 150, numbers can be deceiving. I also think no one really cares. Perhaps there are too many people who would prefer that these smaller schools go soccer or fall baseball instead of 8-man as well. Yet, I think overall the "hidden agenda" behind this thread is to poke Archie with a stick as much as possible as it seems they did jump ship with higher numbers. However, one would think that Archie and Drexel could both eventually grow back into 11-man if the urban sprawl can continue getting pushed south and enrollment gets over 150. Just need to get the farmers to sell their valuable land; they can't make money on it anymore anyways. Get the lots divided and build those houses, and add a few street corner Dollar Generals, Sonics, and Conocos. The rest of the WEMO is in either the boonies or real aggie country, and may be 8-man for good. Besides if more smaller schools drop to 8-man, it should make Class 1 more competitive as more low Class 2 schools drop back down. More talent to choose from, right?
Yeah, I discovered this weekend that Braums has way better breakfast burritos than Sonic, but you usually can't get a Braums in the early stages of urban sprawl; people have to be there for a while.
You had me a breakfast burrito...
I get that a school that makes a decision on whether to go 8-man have to do what’s best for the program. But take Slater for example - did things change dramatically since they entered into 2-year contracts. They signed contracts with nine schools to play 11-man football in 2022 and 2023. They either should have honored those contracts and stayed 11-man for 2023 or never have signed those contracts to begin with. Those 9 schools now have to find opponents which in class 1 continues to be increasingly difficult.
The Slater replacement games so far
Week 1 - Midway?
Week 2 - Adrian at Mountain View
Week 3 - Windsor?
Week 4 - Tipton vs Orchard Farm
Week 5- Cole Camp vs Versailles
Week 6 - Lincoln?
Week 7 - Lone Jack at Versailles
Week 8 -Wellington-Napoleon vs Penney
Week 9 - Crest Ridge at Russellville
Week 1 - Midway?
Week 2 - Adrian at Mountain View
Week 3 - Windsor?
Week 4 - Tipton vs Orchard Farm
Week 5- Cole Camp vs Versailles
Week 6 - Lincoln?
Week 7 - Lone Jack at Versailles
Week 8 -Wellington-Napoleon vs Penney
Week 9 - Crest Ridge at Russellville
In 1999 and 2000 HC was successful 11 man. In 2001 we had 9 players. In 2004 we started with 12 players and by week 3 were down to 9 due to injuries. In 2007, our 2nd year, we played in the state championship. We had 17 players. Worth County had 40+. In 2015 we cooped with Norborne because we had only 7 players come out for football.
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