Are you suggesting that kids from Ste. Genevieve County enrolled at St Vincent because they were better than Valle at that time? And now vice versa?
Bob Weiler did pretty well at Stg after his days at Valle.
Cardinal Ritter 0 - 7?
- Thread starter VarsitySTLBlues
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Bob Weiler did pretty well at Stg after his days at Valle.
No, I was just stating a fact. Yes public schools win championships, it's mostly at the larger Classes.
Lamar had possibly the most dominant run in state history or you know Trinity, Ritter, and LN would have multiple titles in the last 10 years.
Lamar is the exception, not the rule.
So only the small private schools recruit? Or does it just so happen that is the size of school the loudest excuse-makers represent? Here are the public champions in Classes 1-3 going back 10 years. It doesn't help your argument much. Some people get it done, some don't.
2018: Hayti, Blair Oaks
2017: Monroe City, Lamar, Maryville
2016: Penney, Lamar, Monett
2015: Lamar
2014: Lamar, Oak Grove
2013: Lamar, Maryville
2012: Penney, Lamar, Maryville
2011: Lamar, Logan-Rogersville
2010: Penney, Richmond
2009: Penney, Maryville, Cassville
2008: Orrick, Clark County, Cassville
What is crazy is that Ritter probably would have beat them worse week 2 had Marvin Burks Jr, been healthy enough to play. The kid was a stud week one for Ritter.
You make a strong point deacon, I have to admit. They roll thru everyone without breaking a sweat into the finals or semifinals, then get out coached and out diciplined. That's actually fascinating info.
"Marvin Burks, we added him last minute, to pick off JJ McCarthy, period, for us to get 5in a game, it's a testament to where we were able to disguise coverages and our guys stayed diciplined and did what they were asked to do."
-head coach Branden Gregory after the Nazareth game
Hahahahahahaha
-head coach Branden Gregory after the Nazareth game
Hahahahahahaha
I think that’s actually the bigger point. One or two really good teams in the state can usually play with these D1 laden super teams. It’s the run of the mill small class schools that have to pay the price week in and week out playing these guys that bear the brunt of it.
I think the concept of moving private schools who win big every year ( in districts-not just state championships) up to the next class will make it a little more fair. I am sure it won’t be perfect, but you have to be pretty silly to say Valle shouldn’t be class 2 and LN shouldn’t be class 3 or 4.
Hey that's fair, I like averages and probabilities, so let's do some math.
There are 192 schools that play football in Classes 1-3. 19 of them are private.
I'm not going back and looking at how many championship games private schools happened to play in and lose, but would you say they are consistently more likely to at least make it to a championship at the lower levels than they statistically should be?
Walk into John Burroughs multi-purpose building and take a look at the state champions boards listing 40+ state championships including almost every sport imaginable and then tell me it’s because they have just always had better, harder working coaches in all those sports. Absurd.
Sure, coaching plays a role, but a small one. Vince Lombardi couldn't take Brookfield's 30-man roster of local kids and beat Lutheran North with their 14 D1 prospects.
There either needs to be a complete separation of public-private at least for postseason play, or base classification on geography: if LN and Trinity have players on their rosters from class 6 areas like the StL metro area, then they should compete at class 6. If Valle has kids from the class 3 Ste Gen area, Valle should compete as a class 3. That would make the playing field more level.
There either needs to be a complete separation of public-private at least for postseason play, or base classification on geography: if LN and Trinity have players on their rosters from class 6 areas like the StL metro area, then they should compete at class 6. If Valle has kids from the class 3 Ste Gen area, Valle should compete as a class 3. That would make the playing field more level.
Let me see if I understand your argument. You are saying that publics claimed 79% (rounded) of state championships over an 11 year period. I assume therefore that you are saying that publics represented only 79% of the teams eligible to compete for a championship. (By the way, if you go 10 years instead of 11 the figure would be 70%)
Since I'm too damn lazy to look up the statistics myself would you provide the raw numbers? If they bear out your argument, okay. If not, then it appears you trotted out an incorrect premise, drug a sack of red herring over the argument and tried to lead this old dog off the trail.
To get a true picture though you would need to break this down by each class separately. The law of random probability would indicate a number of championships would be distributed in proportion to the number of participants.
Also, it only looks at championships. It does not look a finals, semifinals, etc, appearances. This would be required to determine how many public schools (proportionately) were possibly denied an opportunity (not to win a state championship) but just to advance.
Finally, I doubt that a 10 or 11 year sample would be sufficient to establish any proposition definitively.
No, just look at the number of people within the 25 mile recruiting area. If the number is over a million, they're Class 6.
All these great coaches should take a job at chaffee or some other small school and take a swing at it.
Should be state champs in a couple years with all that superior coaching
Someone is new here lol
I suspected some race stuff when I first joined MoSports as well. Simply because the main schools targeted are about 60-80% black with about 95% black football teams. None towards MICDS/CBC(until Joplin) and others who've always been good.
Now every once in a while there is a comment made in poor taste. I seen people bring up kids family lives, wondering were their fathers are,crime, jobs after they attend college, GPA, calling them thugs, questioning intelligence etc and those things are for the most part quickly called out so it is valid to wonder.
But for the most part MoSports is a bunch of small school fans, Class 4 and under. Its usually like 3 of us total in Class 6 threads. Those schools CR/LN/Trinity directly affect them so they're upset. Again you do have a couple of P.O.S. who make it racial but most of these guys are just good ole jealous lol you'll see if you stick around.
Specifically who has ever made it racial and please provide the exact quote.
I believe the only people who have ever brought up race are YOU, FBisLife12, and VarsityStlBlues. There was one other guy but he has since disappeared.
Only if they steal players who otherwise reside in a class 6 public school district. If you stockpile your roster with the top athletes from area class 6 schools, you can't play a class 2 schedule in the playoffs because the other legit class 2 towns around the state weren't allowed to do that.
Please note that this is just an alternative suggestion. The best remedy is to simply have separate postseason play for public and private schools.
And you are going to police teams "stealing" players from Class 6 schools how exactly?
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By the way, you guys don't seriously think this public/private situation will ever change correct? If you do, you don't understand how much money MSHSAA makes from private schools being good at football. Or any sport for that matter.
Nothing will change. Nothing.
This scenario going into place next year is just to keep your crying and whining down a bit.
Why are you guys not talking about the Public schools that recruit? Do you really think private schools are the only ones that recruit?
Isn't a feeder/junior football program a recruiting source for Public Schools?
Not if they are in the same school district lol
What about the kids who don't live in the district and play for the feeder program? It happens ALL THE TIME.
What public schools are recruiting as blatantly as the small St. Louis private schools and why haven't you reported them to MSHSAA?
That's a fair point about the challenges of policing what districts the elite athletes actually reside in. A much better, fairer solution would be for the private schools to continue to recruit top players, but hold separate postseason championships for them. That way, legit class 2 programs like Brookfield (which last had a D1 athlete in 2006) and Monroe City(which last had a D1 prospect in the 80s) will face other legit class 2 programs instead of facing schools like LN that can stockpile 14 D1 prospects this year and still play in class 2 during the postseason. It's past time to level the playing field.
Numbers. The StL area has 3 million people; Kahoka (home of class 2 Clark County), has a population of 2,000. Clark County just isn't going to be able to compete with an elite select team of StL area athletes, yet Lutheran North and Clark County are both class 2 programs. Clearly, there needs to be separate postseason playoffs for programs with such a competitive advantage.
really not that hard to understand. Yet some of us continue to struggle.
I don't know, rural schools have not done too badly against LN in the playoffs. I know Palmrya beat them a couple of times recently when LN had good teams. Lamar beat them when they had Ronnie Perkins and 3 D1 backs. BO beat them last year. People do so much complaining about LN and they haven't won a championship in a long time.
Coaching matters. At that point Lamar was about as well built a program as ever has graced a field in the state of Missouri.
This thread got to 500 responses in less than a week without a Doc Guys blitzkrieg. Does that qualify as “hot button”?
