Cardinal Ritter 0 - 7?

[Limbline]

They have 6 in 2020, 1 in 2021, and 2 in 2022. Its of course hard to do underclassmen because most offers will come after the season. They may have about 14 potential division 1 players in the school and maybe another 5-10 who can play D2/FCS.

You guys think its cheating but if you're a kid who has the options to play at the 4/5 St Louis schools who are sending this many kids to college you would wanna play there too. Its not recruiting once you get this much recruting success. Kids are begging to to there to play football.

Florida State came to LN and offered 7 guys in March including the 2 guys in 2022 after their freshman seasons. That stuff gets put on social media/news/newspapers etc.
Kids see it and want that to happen to them. Its simple. Not fair for the rest of Class 2 but the success Multiplier should fix it.

That's not the issue. Sure, if I were one of those kids, I would definitely choose to go to one of the private schools.
The issue is fairness to all of the public schools that are also trying to win a state championship. If they had their own state title, nobody would give a flip. Well, that's not entirely true. The public schools that keep getting their best athletes poached would probably still be upset.

 

[JNreturns]

They have 6 in 2020, 1 in 2021, and 2 in 2022. Its of course hard to do underclassmen because most offers will come after the season. They may have about 14 potential division 1 players in the school and maybe another 5-10 who can play D2/FCS.

You guys think its cheating but if you're a kid who has the options to play at the 4/5 St Louis schools who are sending this many kids to college you would wanna play there too. Its not recruiting once you get this much recruting success. Kids are begging to to there to play football.

Florida State came to LN and offered 7 guys in March including the 2 guys in 2022 after their freshman seasons. That stuff gets put on social media/news/newspapers etc.
Kids see it and want that to happen to them. Its simple. Not fair for the rest of Class 2 but the success Multiplier should fix it.

I only see three with ACTUAL offers right now.

 

[BPcompete]

I only see three with ACTUAL offers right now.

Which Three?
The Seniors Brown, Doyle, Smith, Parker, Rutledge, Griffin

2021 top 100 DE Ford

2022 Wells and Pride.

via 247Sports all offered

Doyle is a US Army All American and Ford probably will be too.
Both were illegible during the Ritter game and sat out unlike Marvin Burks.

Thats why I wanted to see the rematch north was without 2 all americans in the front 7 I dont think Marvin Burks wouldve had the same rushing success.

 

[Treadmill]

There's really only 2 solutions, since maintaining the status quo only ensures that the private schools have an unfair advantage:

1. Permit open enrollment whereby public schools can also recruit athletes from any school district who are free to enroll in the public school of their choice, as private schools do.

2. Have separate postseason playoffs for private and public schools.

 

[Razzy417]

The private schools don't just have an advantage in football over the public schools, it's also prevalent in the other sports. It's just plain old common sense that private schools, especially in KC and STL, have a big advantage over public ones when it comes to recruiting and attracting the best players. It's not even debatable, at least when it comes to the smaller classifications.

What IS debatable is what to do about it, ranging from "nothing" to moving the private schools up at least a class higher than what their enrollment level would dictate.

 

[BPcompete]

There's really only 2 solutions, since maintaining the status quo only ensures that the private schools have an unfair advantage:

1. Permit open enrollment whereby public schools can also recruit athletes from any school district who are free to enroll the the public school of their choice, as private schools do.

2. Have separate postseason playoffs for private and public schools.

these are all extreme changes that you guys suggest that you know will never happen. I think that the Sucess multiplier is probably the most logical solution. It will force private schools to play teams around their skill level. Like I think Trinity/LN/CR should be playing Class 4 at least and more realistically class 5.

This is all a recent thing for the small schools though because before 4 years ago these schools would be getting smacked by the big schools. So I dont know how long it holds up.

 

[MOhusker12]

Coaching does matter. Especially if you don't have 15-20 D-1 kids playing Class 2 competition.

If you DO somehow manage to wrangle 20 D-1 kids and have the opportunity to play tiny rural schools, then yeah coaching becomes less of a factor.

and if a coach with 20 D-1 kids lose then they need to be fired

 

[Ronnie Bass]

Legitimate question, is LN, CR, Trinity (or any other small private school you guys have a beef with) refusing students to intentionally keep their enrollment numbers down to compete in Class 2 or 3?

 

[Ronnie Bass]

and if a coach with 20 D-1 kids lose then they need to be fired

So Coach Reed should be fired?

 

[BoosterBosko]

The Mox would like to weigh in on this.....

 

[Razzy417]

Legitimate question, is LN, CR, Trinity (or any other small private school you guys have a beef with) refusing students to intentionally keep their enrollment numbers down to compete in Class 2 or 3?

I wouldn't think so, some of those schools like Trinity are dying and losing students each year and want to do all they can to keep their enrollment levels up. Hell, they want to entice as many students as they can to go to those schools, including the added incentive of having good sports programs.

 

[BPcompete]

So Coach Reed should be fired?

Yes. This one I cannot defend. LN has no business whatsoever with literally 15 D1 guys including Ronnie Perkins losing to Lamar and then last year losing to Blair Oaks. If I give those teams to the top 10 coaches in Missouri they wouldnt lose to anyone.

Its a catch because Reed probably attracts (recruits) some of those guys to come.

 

[BPcompete]

Legitimate question, is LN, CR, Trinity (or any other small private school you guys have a beef with) refusing students to intentionally keep their enrollment numbers down to compete in Class 2 or 3?

No those arent big schools. If you live in STL you would know this. At least the last 10 years their enrollment goes from the 250-400 range. They're small schools just like the other schools in their conferences.

 

[ZebrasRule]

You will never stop the recruiting... One of the top schools in the country is Mater Dei out of California and it is a private school that heavily recruits... Why would you think a private school in Missouri would be any different. Private schools have it in their name... "Private" means not everyone will get in.

 

[Veerman_12]

They have 6 in 2020, 1 in 2021, and 2 in 2022. Its of course hard to do underclassmen because most offers will come after the season. They may have about 14 potential division 1 players in the school and maybe another 5-10 who can play D2/FCS.

You guys think its cheating but if you're a kid who has the options to play at the 4/5 St Louis schools who are sending this many kids to college you would wanna play there too. Its not recruiting once you get this much recruting success. Kids are begging to to there to play football.

Florida State came to LN and offered 7 guys in March including the 2 guys in 2022 after their freshman seasons. That stuff gets put on social media/news/newspapers etc.
Kids see it and want that to happen to them. Its simple. Not fair for the rest of Class 2 but the success Multiplier should fix it.

Yep success multiplier will MAYBE bump them up to Class 3, IF they win state this year. Otherwise theyll probably just stay in Class 2. The success multiplier probably isn't going to fix anything.

 

[Limbline]

You guys just keep saying move them up classes, but there's still no public schools that should play them. Even the top class 6 public schools usually only have a couple of D1 players. They need to be in their own class.

 

[Limbline]

You will never stop the recruiting... One of the top schools in the country is Mater Dei out of California and it is a private school that heavily recruits... Why would you think a private school in Missouri would be any different. Private schools have it in their name... "Private" means not everyone will get in.

They should have their own private championship as well.

 

[Ronnie Bass]

No those arent big schools. If you live in STL you would know this. At least the last 10 years their enrollment goes from the 250-400 range. They're small schools just like the other schools in their conferences.

I understand that. But my point is that if LN, CR or Trinity are getting all these D1 athletes, does that not attract other athletes that aren't D1, maybe not even a college level player, to want to come there too?

 

[MOhusker12]

So Coach Reed should be fired?

If they are playing schools without D-1 athletes then yes they should be fired. Some people on here are arguing that the public schools need to work harder and coach better, if they want to compete with private schools. Well if a loaded private school with 20 D-1 athletes can't beat a school that has 0 D-1 athletes then said coach needs to be fired.

 

[Ronnie Bass]

If they are playing schools without D-1 athletes then yes they should be fired. Some people on here are arguing that the public schools need to work harder and coach better, if they want to compete with private schools. Well if a loaded private school with 20 D-1 athletes can't beat a school that has 0 athletes then said coach needs to be fired.

So Coach Reed should be fired because he made it all the way to the championship game and lost to Blair Oaks last year.

Makes sense.

 

[Veerman_12]

You guys just keep saying move them up classes, but there's still no public schools that should play them. Even the top class 6 public schools usually only have a couple of D1 players. They need to be in their own class.

Yeah but in a Class 6 school with approximately 900 boys to choose from you're bound to find a few more big, strong, fast kids than you're likely to find at a school of 250 total kids.

But I mean that's just a statistical probability...

 

[Mofan79]

If they are playing schools without D-1 athletes then yes they should be fired. Some people on here are arguing that the public schools need to work harder and coach better, if they want to compete with private schools. Well if a loaded private school with 20 D-1 athletes can't beat a school that has 0 athletes then said coach needs to be fired.

HS Football is about more than wins and losses its about the lessons taught to the players about right and wrong, team work, community, recruiting elite talent, and discipline

 

[BPcompete]

You guys just keep saying move them up classes, but there's still no public schools that should play them. Even the top class 6 public schools usually only have a couple of D1 players. They need to be in their own class.

Bigger schools have more depth and usually just as much talent/size as small schools. Its a lot of great MO teams without D1 guys this is flawed logic

 

[Treadmill]

You will never stop the recruiting... One of the top schools in the country is Mater Dei out of California and it is a private school that heavily recruits... Why would you think a private school in Missouri would be any different. Private schools have it in their name... "Private" means not everyone will get in.

This is true, which is exactly why there should be separate postseason championships for private schools, because the public schools aren't permitted to do that.

 

[MOhusker12]

So Coach Reed should be fired because he made it all the way to the championship game and lost to Blair Oaks last year.

Makes sense.

Yes it makes sense, because they should go get a better coach. Happens all the time in sports, good coaches get fired and replaced with better coaches.

 

[MOhusker12]

HS Football is about more than wins and losses its about the lessons taught to the players about right and wrong, team work, community, recruiting elite talent, and discipline

I agree with you, but if you are recruiting D-1 athletes and loading up your roster, you can't really make the argument that it is not about wins and losses. If you read the whole thread a few have suggested that the public schools need to coach better and work harder. So my argument to that is, a private school coach with superior talent needs to win it all or he should be fired.

 

[BPcompete]

I understand that. But my point is that if LN, CR or Trinity are getting all these D1 athletes, does that not attract other athletes that aren't D1, maybe not even a college level player, to want to come there too?

It probably does. Not every player on the football team is D1 lol

 

[Mofan79]

I agree with you, but if you are recruiting D-1 athletes and loading up your roster, you can't really make the argument that it is not about wins and losses. If you read the whole thread a few have suggested that the public schools need to coach better and work harder. So my argument to that is, a private school coach with superior talent needs to win it all or he should be fired.

I was being sarcastic thus the recruiting elite talent comment. In my opinion any type of recruiting has no business in High school sports regardless of class or private or not. The purpose of them is purely to grow young people into better adults and any one without that purpose involved in the game should be fired.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Just make it like the NCAA and have divisions that each school can go by. If you have so many kids you are NCAA Division 1-2-3 school. If you are under

Yes. This one I cannot defend. LN has no business whatsoever with literally 15 D1 guys including Ronnie Perkins losing to Lamar and then last year losing to Blair Oaks. If I give those teams to the top 10 coaches in Missouri they wouldnt lose to anyone.

Its a catch because Reed probably attracts (recruits) some of those guys to come.

Blair Oaks just didn't beat them, they

 

[BPcompete]

So Coach Reed should be fired because he made it all the way to the championship game and lost to Blair Oaks last year.

Makes sense.

didnt make it to the championship and yes. Thats an embarrasing amount of talent to not win little ol class 2. Its really no defense for not winning the last 2 years.

The only explanation is bad coaching you have to call it what it is.

 

[MOhusker12]

I was being sarcastic thus the recruiting elite talent comment. In my opinion any type of recruiting has no business in High school sports regardless of class or private or not. The purpose of them is purely to grow young people into better adults and any one without that purpose involved in the game should be fired.

Got it, I read over the recruiting elite talent part.

 

[BPcompete]

I was being sarcastic thus the recruiting elite talent comment. In my opinion any type of recruiting has no business in High school sports regardless of class or private or not. The purpose of them is purely to grow young people into better adults and any one without that purpose involved in the game should be fired.

Sports is about competition and winning. Its always been this way at every level. The point is to stay within the rules but people want to win so bad that they will bend rules. Its been happening for centuries in human competition. Get over it.

 

[Mofan79]

Sports is about competition and winning. Its always been this way at every level. The point is to stay within the rules but people want to win so bad that they will bend rules. Its been happening for centuries in human competition. Get over it.

At the Highschool level that is not what it is about competition and winning are a part of it but the main focus of High school athletics is to improve you people and teach lessons to kids who may not get those in a traditional academic setting. If you believe it is all about winning and competition then at the very least you are misguided. Its a HS Coaches job to build great young people not to win games.

 

[BPcompete]

At the Highschool level that is not what it is about competition and winning are a part of it but the main focus of High school athletics is to improve you people and teach lessons to kids who may not get those in a traditional academic setting. If you believe it is all about winning and competition then at the very least you are misguided. Its a HS Coaches job to build great young people not to win games.

pretty sure they lose their jobs for not winning games. Of course building strong character men is very important I agree. But why we're all here is because we like talking football, why said coaches are hired is because of winning football games. I agree with you but Im just calling it like it is.

 

[Ronnie Bass]

pretty sure they lose their jobs for not winning games. Of course building strong character men is very important I agree. But why we're all here is because we like talking football, why said coaches are hired is because of winning football games. I agree with you but Im just calling it like it is.

Who has lost their job at the High School level because they did not win enough games?

 

[BPcompete]

Who has lost their job at the High School level because they did not win enough games?

Is this a serious post?????????????????????????????????? do you not follow high school sports???????????????????????????

 

[Cardsfan74]

And you are going to police teams "stealing" players from Class 6 schools how exactly?
Great quote by coach Mike Smith at Webb a few years ago “if the only thing we accomplish is winning a bunch of football games then we have failed”
__________________________

By the way, you guys don't seriously think this public/private situation will ever change correct? If you do, you don't understand how much money MSHSAA makes from private schools being good at football. Or any sport for that matter.

Nothing will change. Nothing.

This scenario going into place next year is just to keep your crying and whining down a bit.

The more that things like happened at Ritter comes to light the more schools will

At the Highschool level that is not what it is about competition and winning are a part of it but the main focus of High school athletics is to improve you people and teach lessons to kids who may not get those in a traditional academic setting. If you believe it is all about winning and competition then at the very least you are misguided. Its a HS Coaches job to build great young people not to win games.

 

[Treadmill]

Who has lost their job at the High School level because they did not win enough games?

Every coach in the history of the game who didn't either retire first or voluntarily move on for another job, and a sizable portion of them actually did, too. Many were told to "retire" or get canned.

 

[mowesten]

Funny, I am only seeing 7. 6 seniors and one underclassman.

As best I can tell, LN has nine players who hold an offer. I think there are definitely several in the younger classes who eventually will. I could be overlooking someone, I suppose.

As someone who really doesn’t care about LN one way or another, know anyone there and never have, take it for what it’s worth.

Itavyion Brown, 2020
Cameron Griffin, 2020 (W. Michigan commit)
Antonio Doyle, 2020
Aubrey Parker, 2020 (Brown, Cornell, Columbia)
Roni Rutledge, 2020 (Indiana State)
Travion Ford, 2021
Toriano Pride, 2022 (Mizzou, KS, Purdue, Iowa, Illinois)
Ali Wells, 2022 (Minn, Iowa, Illinois, FSU, Louisville)
Caldra Williford, 2022 (Minnesota)

 

[Veerman_12]

Who has lost their job at the High School level because they did not win enough games?

For real? Well someone just lost all credibility.