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STATE CHAMPIONSHIP REFORM IDEA

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VarsitySTLBlues

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Sep 18, 2019
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1. Make the District Championship mean something. Bigger trophies. Not everyone qualifies for District play. Create a system in which teams look forward to winning Districts. This should be as far as Geographic Representation goes. When it comes to the state tournament. All Kansas City, SWMO schools shouldn't knock each other out in the "playoffs". Why can't two Kansas City schools play each other in the Class 4 state championship game.

2. Eliminate the Championship Factor. This doesn't work against the bigger programs. I get that the creators were trying to penalize Trinity Catholic and the small private schools, making sure that they didn't monopolize the Class 2 State Championship. Eventually yes, it takes care of it's self in regards to the smaller privates, but the Championship Factor does nothing to penalize CBC, Rockhurst, Desmet etc.

3. Reduce the amount of classes. The State Championship in Missouri is fairly watered down due to the amount of classes and geographic representation. I could be wrong, but Missouri should not have the same amount of football classes as Texas. Again, make the District Championship mean something. MSHSAA is trying to create too many State Champions and I've heard that it's all about either revenue and/or geographic representation. In Missouri 4 classes should be enough.

4. Class 5 and 6 should be an All-Private school division. Class 5, small private schools. Class 6, larger private schools. MSHSAA is not going to remove the private schools from the equation. So the only way to counter would be to ditch the geographic representation idea as mentioned above. As MOST privates exist in the STL region, the current system of geographic representation constantly pits public schools from different sides of the state against the STL private schools. Let the privates compete within their own classes under the MSHSAA umbrella. Everyone wins.

Maybe one idea makes sense, maybe they all make sense. Maybe none make sense. These are just my random ideas and thoughts on how MSHSAA can improve their current systems.
 
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Thru Thursday evening and three games Friday, the runner up has been within two scores of the champion with the exception of Class 1. Marionville winning 29-0 doesn’t even feel like a blowout, it was 21-0 late and just a great defensive performance.

Point is, so far the runner up in each game has battled and everything has wound up quite competitive in each class, so not necessarily a bunch of fixing required based on this year’s results (IMO).

Looking forward to today, expecting Kearney, Lamar and CBC to all win but not easily in any case.
 
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VarsitySTLBlues said:
1. Make the District Championship mean something. Bigger trophies. Not everyone qualifies for District play. Create a system in which teams look forward to winning Districts. This should be as far as Geographic Representation goes. When it comes to the state tournament. All Kansas City, SWMO schools shouldn't knock each other out in the "playoffs". Why can't two Kansas City schools play each other in the Class 4 state championship game.

2. Eliminate the Championship Factor. This doesn't work against the bigger programs. I get that the creators were trying to penalize Trinity Catholic and the small private schools, making sure that they didn't monopolize the Class 2 State Championship. Eventually yes, it takes care of it's self in regards to the smaller privates, but the Championship Factor does nothing to penalize CBC, Rockhurst, Desmet etc.

3. Reduce the amount of classes. The State Championship in Missouri is fairly watered down due to the amount of classes and geographic representation. I could be wrong, but Missouri should not have the same amount of football classes as Texas. Again, make the District Championship mean something. MSHSAA is trying to create too many State Champions and I've heard that it's all about either revenue and/or geographic representation. In Missouri 4 classes should be enough.

4. Class 5 and 6 should be an All-Private school division. Class 5, small private schools. Class 6, larger private schools. MSHSAA is not going to remove the private schools from the equation. So the only way to counter would be to ditch the geographic representation idea as mentioned above. As MOST privates exist in the STL region, the current system of geographic representation constantly pits public schools from different sides of the state against the STL private schools. Let the privates compete within their own classes under the MSHSAA umbrella. Everyone wins.

Maybe one idea makes sense, maybe they all make sense. Maybe none make sense. These are just my random ideas and thoughts on how MSHSAA can improve their current systems.
Click to expand...
Good thoughts
 
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Majost said:
So maybe we can say class 5 and 6 is like the FBS Division state champion

Then class 1-4 be called like the FCS state champion
Click to expand...
Or class 5 and 6 play by one set of rules and 1-4 play by a different set.
 
I've been around long enough to play/coach through 3 playoff setups. Liked the 4 team, 2 move on set up. Keeps down the total blowouts we have now in round 1 with a lot of 1 v 8, 2 v 7. Start season a week later. Week 8 and 9 district playoff. Week 10 top 2 move on, play it down from there.

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I like the old last game on Thursday, first round on Wed (If I remember right), next game on Mon, next game on Sat, then state champs day and 2 days after Thanksgiving. These kids are in much better strength and shape, coaches don't hit much at practice by the end of the year. If you do 2 weeks of camp at the end of July, then take the dead week, then official practice starts, the teams that play until the state championship are in football 19 out of 20 weeks. Long season for all involved.

What about Class 1 and 2 all public.
Class 3 include small privates.
Class 4 and 5 all public.
Class 6 all large private
 
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Pancho and Lefty said:
I've been around long enough to play/coach through 3 playoff setups. Liked the 4 team, 2 move on set up. Keeps down the total blowouts we have now in round 1 with a lot of 1 v 8, 2 v 7. Start season a week later. Week 8 and 9 district playoff. Week 10 top 2 move on, play it down from there.

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I like the old last game on Thursday, first round on Wed (If I remember right), next game on Mon, next game on Sat, then state champs day and 2 days after Thanksgiving. These kids are in much better strength and shape, coaches don't hit much at practice by the end of the year. If you do 2 weeks of camp at the end of July, then take the dead week, then official practice starts, the teams that play until the state championship are in football 19 out of 20 weeks. Long season for all involved.

What about Class 1 and 2 all public.
Class 3 include small privates.
Class 4 and 5 all public.
Class 6 all large private
Click to expand...
Slight correction, there were two Saturdays in a row (Quarterfinals and Semifinals).
 
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I think just take away the private school cap and leave everything else alone. Ritter should be class 6 next year. Maybe only go higher than 2 classes above your enrollment if you win the state title in your class.
 
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VarsitySTLBlues said:
1. Make the District Championship mean something. Bigger trophies. Not everyone qualifies for District play. Create a system in which teams look forward to winning Districts. This should be as far as Geographic Representation goes. When it comes to the state tournament. All Kansas City, SWMO schools shouldn't knock each other out in the "playoffs". Why can't two Kansas City schools play each other in the Class 4 state championship game.

2. Eliminate the Championship Factor. This doesn't work against the bigger programs. I get that the creators were trying to penalize Trinity Catholic and the small private schools, making sure that they didn't monopolize the Class 2 State Championship. Eventually yes, it takes care of it's self in regards to the smaller privates, but the Championship Factor does nothing to penalize CBC, Rockhurst, Desmet etc.

3. Reduce the amount of classes. The State Championship in Missouri is fairly watered down due to the amount of classes and geographic representation. I could be wrong, but Missouri should not have the same amount of football classes as Texas. Again, make the District Championship mean something. MSHSAA is trying to create too many State Champions and I've heard that it's all about either revenue and/or geographic representation. In Missouri 4 classes should be enough.

4. Class 5 and 6 should be an All-Private school division. Class 5, small private schools. Class 6, larger private schools. MSHSAA is not going to remove the private schools from the equation. So the only way to counter would be to ditch the geographic representation idea as mentioned above. As MOST privates exist in the STL region, the current system of geographic representation constantly pits public schools from different sides of the state against the STL private schools. Let the privates compete within their own classes under the MSHSAA umbrella. Everyone wins.

Maybe one idea makes sense, maybe they all make sense. Maybe none make sense. These are just my random ideas and thoughts on how MSHSAA can improve their current systems.
Click to expand...
Texas has Class 1-6 Division 1 and Division 2. They also have Private school divisions like 20 in total. But other than that great points
 
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Veer2Eternity said:
No public schools don't get scholarships valleboi.
Click to expand...
Doesnt surprise me you didnt get the comment. You said different said of rules. I just gave a one specific rule change. But arent scholarships designed to give a more cheaper education. Way i see it. Every public school athlete is on a full ride scholarship no? Somebody is paying for that athlete to go there
 
Majost said:
Doesnt surprise me you didnt get the comment. You said different said of rules. I just gave a one specific rule change. But arent scholarships designed to give a more cheaper education. Way i see it. Every public school athlete is on a full ride scholarship no? Somebody is paying for that athlete to go there
Click to expand...
well youre wrong no matted what 'said' of rules you want to talk about.
Public schools cant get athletes (LEGALLY) from other districts.

Not the same son.
 
Pancho and Lefty said:
I've been around long enough to play/coach through 3 playoff setups. Liked the 4 team, 2 move on set up. Keeps down the total blowouts we have now in round 1 with a lot of 1 v 8, 2 v 7. Start season a week later. Week 8 and 9 district playoff. Week 10 top 2 move on, play it down from there.

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I like the old last game on Thursday, first round on Wed (If I remember right), next game on Mon, next game on Sat, then state champs day and 2 days after Thanksgiving. These kids are in much better strength and shape, coaches don't hit much at practice by the end of the year. If you do 2 weeks of camp at the end of July, then take the dead week, then official practice starts, the teams that play until the state championship are in football 19 out of 20 weeks. Long season for all involved.

What about Class 1 and 2 all public.
Class 3 include small privates.
Class 4 and 5 all public.
Class 6 all large private
Click to expand...
The four team districts was the best setup we’ve had.
 
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Veer2Eternity said:
well youre wrong no matted what 'said' of rules you want to talk about.
Public schools cant get athletes (LEGALLY) from other districts.

Not the same son.
Click to expand...
Like i said. Different set of rules evidently..and im sure the only reason your worried about it is because you think they get the better athletes overall, hence again just like fbs vs fcs. Even though we never hear you all complain about ALL the private schools who have crap athletic programs. Sounding more and more like class 5&6 will be crowned the higher division state champion
 
Last edited:
Majost said:
Like i said. Different set of rules evidently..and im sure the only reason your worried about it is because you think they get the better athletes overall, hence again just like fbs vs fcs. Even though we never hear you all complain about ALL. The private schools who have crap athletic programs. Sounding more and more like class 5&6 will be crowned the higher division state champion
Click to expand...
i dont care how a honk like you thinks to be honest.
Just get out.
 
Majost said:
Lol. Says the guys who cries about private schools every chance he gets.
Click to expand...
They don't play by the same rule.

You were the ones crying the last 3 years when you had to compete in the class you belonged in.
 
VarsitySTLBlues said:
1. Make the District Championship mean something. Bigger trophies. Not everyone qualifies for District play. Create a system in which teams look forward to winning Districts. This should be as far as Geographic Representation goes. When it comes to the state tournament. All Kansas City, SWMO schools shouldn't knock each other out in the "playoffs". Why can't two Kansas City schools play each other in the Class 4 state championship game.

2. Eliminate the Championship Factor. This doesn't work against the bigger programs. I get that the creators were trying to penalize Trinity Catholic and the small private schools, making sure that they didn't monopolize the Class 2 State Championship. Eventually yes, it takes care of it's self in regards to the smaller privates, but the Championship Factor does nothing to penalize CBC, Rockhurst, Desmet etc.

3. Reduce the amount of classes. The State Championship in Missouri is fairly watered down due to the amount of classes and geographic representation. I could be wrong, but Missouri should not have the same amount of football classes as Texas. Again, make the District Championship mean something. MSHSAA is trying to create too many State Champions and I've heard that it's all about either revenue and/or geographic representation. In Missouri 4 classes should be enough.

4. Class 5 and 6 should be an All-Private school division. Class 5, small private schools. Class 6, larger private schools. MSHSAA is not going to remove the private schools from the equation. So the only way to counter would be to ditch the geographic representation idea as mentioned above. As MOST privates exist in the STL region, the current system of geographic representation constantly pits public schools from different sides of the state against the STL private schools. Let the privates compete within their own classes under the MSHSAA umbrella. Everyone wins.

Maybe one idea makes sense, maybe they all make sense. Maybe none make sense. These are just my random ideas and thoughts on how MSHSAA can improve their current systems.
Click to expand...
FYI. Texas has 19 classifications
 
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Veer2Eternity said:
That'swhy people don't like private schools right there.

Glad you got your asses kicked.

35-7 run.
Click to expand...
Lol. Unlike you. Something like this bothers me as much as ..well nothing. You were that kid. Bet you even have that whiny voice that goes with it. Just a fyi. Public school graduate here, and it still doesnt bother me. If it bothers you all that much go start your own association. Nothing is stopping you. Have fun on your little online life here. Lol. Congrats to all the state champions
 
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AC100 said:
I think just take away the private school cap and leave everything else alone. Ritter should be class 6 next year. Maybe only go higher than 2 classes above your enrollment if you win the state title in your class.
Click to expand...
 
Majost said:
Lol. Unlike you. Something like this bothers me as much as ..well nothing. You were that kid. Bet you even have that whiny voice that goes with it. Just a fyi. Public school graduate here, and it still doesnt bother me. If it bothers you all that much go start your own association. Nothing is stopping you. Have fun on your little online life here. Lol. Congrats to all the state champions
Click to expand...
Seems like it bothered you enough to post again.
 
nope-dont-like-it.gif
 
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VarsitySTLBlues said:


3. Reduce the amount of classes. The State Championship in Missouri is fairly watered down due to the amount of classes and geographic representation. I could be wrong, but Missouri should not have the same amount of football classes as Texas. Again, make the District Championship mean something. MSHSAA is trying to create too many State Champions and I've heard that it's all about either revenue and/or geographic representation. In Missouri 4 classes should be enough.
Click to expand...

Huh? Texas has 19 Classifications. We have been through this on another post. A lot of states smaller than Missouri have the same or more classifications.
 
VarsitySTLBlues said:
1. Make the District Championship mean something. Bigger trophies. Not everyone qualifies for District play. Create a system in which teams look forward to winning Districts. This should be as far as Geographic Representation goes. When it comes to the state tournament. All Kansas City, SWMO schools shouldn't knock each other out in the "playoffs". Why can't two Kansas City schools play each other in the Class 4 state championship game.
Click to expand...

Agree somewhat. Kearney's two best opponents in the postseason were Savannah and Smithville. Both are in District 8.
 
I know MSHSAA are incompetents, but why haven't the public schools who VASTLY outnumber private schools just say enough is enough and demand separation? Why does this conversation have to go on year after year when it is a simple fix?
The championship factor worked somewhat but it only works to a point (C6). Incarnate Ward's girl's basketball team is a prime example.
 
quadzilla200 said:
I know MSHSAA are incompetents, but why haven't the public schools who VASTLY outnumber private schools just say enough is enough and demand separation? Why does this conversation have to go on year after year when it is a simple fix?
The championship factor worked somewhat but it only works to a point (C6). Incarnate Ward's girl's basketball team is a prime example.
Click to expand...
Honestly I think it's because it hasn't affected a vast majority yet.

The Championship factor may cause some to rethink their stance eventually.
Class 6 schools have enough population to overcome many of the advantages afforded to private schools.
 
Veer2Eternity said:
Honestly I think it's because it hasn't affected a vast majority yet.

The Championship factor may cause some to rethink their stance eventually.
Class 6 schools have enough population to overcome many of the advantages afforded to private schools.
Click to expand...

Much more noticeable in sports like golf, tennis, and basketball, both girls and boys. The privates just own those sports completely.
 
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quadzilla200 said:
I know MSHSAA are incompetents, but why haven't the public schools who VASTLY outnumber private schools just say enough is enough and demand separation? Why does this conversation have to go on year after year when it is a simple fix?
The championship factor worked somewhat but it only works to a point (C6). Incarnate Ward's girl's basketball team is a prime example.
Click to expand...
I have thought this for several years in the success factor really only limits the small private schools. The years where St Mary's, Cardinal Ritter really have talent, they are good enough to win class 3-6.

I'm not in the room, but I've always been told that coaching wise, there is probably enough support to get them separated, but the superintendents make the vote, and don't always follow advice of their coach and AD's.
 
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The OP is a flat moron,
I literally have a post showing exactly what a 7 class system looks like and its Golden compared to 6,5,or 4. GTFO with this BS.

I would love to separate private and public though
 
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quadzilla200 said:
I know MSHSAA are incompetents, but why haven't the public schools who VASTLY outnumber private schools just say enough is enough and demand separation? Why does this conversation have to go on year after year when it is a simple fix?
The championship factor worked somewhat but it only works to a point (C6). Incarnate Ward's girl's basketball team is a prime example.
Click to expand...
Have wondered about this.... I believe that its because: Not all privates are created equally. The majority do things the right way. Those schools develop relationships with the ADs and Sups at the public schools and when it comes time to vote, those relationships outweigh, the "cheaters".
 
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