Heard the Birds are going to pursue Fowler hard. My prediction is they come up short because their metrics don't show him to be worth it. Not sure he improves the defense that much, but he would give us a lead off hitter which would allow Marp to bat 3rd and that has not worked out well short term, but could if they put him in the 3 hole from start to finish.
Fowler
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Fowler is just meh to me. Would rather pursue trade options first.
I would like that better than signing Fowler actually, and I like Grichuk. A lot really. But man, Cespesdes just rakes.
You both know Cespedes has no chance to be a Bird. He does not fit their no fun all business mode.
I disagree, I think MO would sign him if the funds were available. I think that might be the bigger stumbling block for them. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Cespedes. Moving Grichuk (or even Piscotty if you have to sweeten the pot) with Garcia (or any starter not name Reyes and Martinez) and Adams would net you something nice. I could live with a Kevin Kiermaier bat in the lineup with Cespedes, Marp, Grichuk or Piscotty, Gyorko, Wong, Molina, and Diaz. Peralta is your super IF sub. I can live with Pham as the 4th OFer if there's a quality 5th to follow (like Hazelbaker, that one still puzzles me). Garcia can be the crappy/gritty/gutty 2017 version of Erin Miles backup to the backup IF'er. He's a quality version of that. Eat the Fat Diaz contract, or let him eat it. He eats everything else apparently. VB can be the backup catcher for all I care. That guy sucks. Pretty much rounds out the roster I think...Lets do lunch!
Funny how we deal Bourjos, and now we wish we had his defense back.
I'm of the opinion that Fowler isn't worth it either...I don't really like Cespedes either just from an effort/mentality standpoint. He's on the plateau about to head down too. I'd rather not be the next organization to sign a guy for way too many years for meh value. Just like the last 2-3 years of Holiday.
Does CF defense really help us that much? What about up the middle?
I'm of the opinion that Fowler isn't worth it either...I don't really like Cespedes either just from an effort/mentality standpoint. He's on the plateau about to head down too. I'd rather not be the next organization to sign a guy for way too many years for meh value. Just like the last 2-3 years of Holiday.
Does CF defense really help us that much? What about up the middle?
Don't make me cry by bringing that up. Effing Matheneging. Btw...Cue 3R saying he sucked b/c he didn't hit one more single a week and ground out to second twice a week instead of striking out. Which is basically the statistical difference.
That'd be the concern, if it's one of those 7-8 year deals for sure.
Idk...I like the idea of having a glove in CF and somewhere either SS or 2B. Obviously you can win with a crappy SS (Eckstein), but it's hard to do it with a metrically bad SS, 2B, and CF. And that's what it was for the Birds much of last season. I'm fine with Diaz and Wong. MM needs to be ok with Wong though. And Wong needs to not do stupid Wong things. Because he's very good when not doing those things.
I don't condemn having a strong ss or 2b defensively (I actually would think that plays a bigger role than CF)...I think my post was misleading word-wise. I feel like we shouldn't rely on HR's to drive our offense either...Cubs aren't going anywhere...
I totally agree...my whole point on Cespedes after reading Ducks initial post was multi-layered. IF you could land Cespedes, grab a Kiermaier type in a deal involving an arm and Adams/Grichuk (or shoot higher and dangle Piscotty), and stick Wong at 2B...the lesser offensive players would be offset with a stick such as Cespedes. Hard for me to swallow Wong, Keirmaier type, and Grichuk all in the same lineup. Especially with the foreseeable regression in '17 from Diaz, Molina, and Gyorko.
I can't believe you guys would even think about trading Piscotty. He was one of very few bright spots in his first full season and he will most likely get better over the next year or two. He and the pitchers everybody mentions should be off limits in any trade.
Depends on what you get in return. Package him, Adams, and an arm to get a CF with equalish offensive ability...I'm in. And he wasn't "one of very few bright spots". The offense had plenty of those.
Sure is more fun talking Cardinal baseball than politics. Especially now that my political team got waxed.
Sure is more fun talking Cardinal baseball than politics. Especially now that my political team got waxed.
Wait till next year VB!!
If you identify with either of what the two major parties have become, we might not be able to be friends. I keed, I keed!!! But wow, hopefully this has been flawed enough to introduce change to the system...Now, back to more important matters...What's your ideal (realistic, no Adams for Blackmon straight up deals) opening day lineup in 2017???Sure is more fun talking Cardinal baseball than politics. Especially now that my political team got waxed.
NO, the offense had a bunch of HR's and still didn't win 90 games. Piscotty will get better year after year on both sides off the ball. Maybe you forget this was his FIRST full year in the big show. He actually hit for a decent average, even with one stretch where he couldn't buy a hit, AND hit HR's.
Team as is
Carp 1b
Diaz SS
Piscotti RF
Cespedes LF
Molina C
Gyrko 3b
Grichuk CF
Wong 2b
Martinez
Wainwright
Reyes
Leake
Lynn
7th inning Rosenthal
8th inning Sechrest
9 Oh Oh
Would like to see them get a SS like Aldroten from the Angels whatever his name is and Move Diaz to 2nd or 3rd
Carp 1b
Diaz SS
Piscotti RF
Cespedes LF
Molina C
Gyrko 3b
Grichuk CF
Wong 2b
Martinez
Wainwright
Reyes
Leake
Lynn
7th inning Rosenthal
8th inning Sechrest
9 Oh Oh
Would like to see them get a SS like Aldroten from the Angels whatever his name is and Move Diaz to 2nd or 3rd
It just dream because I know Matheny would nix such a signing, Cespedes is not a choir boyI missed the Cespedes signing but I'm as excited as hell VB!!
Yea Cespedes has a collection of fancy cars. Doesn't sound like he would fit in.
Lol, damn you're one hard-headed dude. So pitching and defense did their part, but the offense didn't? You're getting close to Kenkster baseball fan status with hot takes like that.
Nope I don't understand your dislike for a guy who put up the numbers he did for 2 years before he pitched while hurt.
I don't dislike him. He just sucks. It happens. He can't get people out. And I don't think it's an injury thing. He was awful when he came back this year. I wish he didn't suck, because any combo of him, Rosie, and Oh would be sweet.
Did he not suck this year, both before and after his time on the DL? Even when he came back, the outs he got were absolute piss rockets. Btw...Looks like he might have a different role come spring time.
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/cardinals-will-stretch-out-trevor-rosenthal-as-a-starter/
They've got to be thinking deal with pitchers. Martinez, Waino, Reyes, Lynn, Leake (probable rotation)...Wacha, Garcia, Gonzales, Weaver, Cooney, Lyons (likely the other bullpen lefty with loss of Duke), and now Rosie all starters on the 40-man. Time to use some of the depth.
Rosie was a starter in the minors. maybe they think if he's a starter he can use all his pitches and get outs. I guess we'll see.
