coronavirus and presidential election
- Thread starter bullitpdq68
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I didn't think about it like that. When the post started, I thought I knew where it was going, but you went a little darker than I was expecting. That should be a concern for all 3 of them. I really think Trump may be the healthiest of the 3. Biden has had brain cancer and Bernie a heart attack, or whatever it was called.
More importantly, is this stupid virus going to cause us to miss the NCAA tournament or played in empty arenas?
Also, what happens when big cities start banning large assemblies like we've seen in places like France, Switzerland, and Italy?
I know this is getting crazy.
I lived thru the swine flue of 09 and there were more affected and deaths with it and I don't remember this much panic.
have to ask what makes the Coronavirus so different?
I lived thru the swine flue of 09 and there were more affected and deaths with it and I don't remember this much panic.
have to ask what makes the Coronavirus so different?
Well it could affect the outcome too, some might not want to mess with voting. This is going to be interesting.
We expect the flu to transmit annually, and we (sadly) expect there to be 5 figures of Americans who die annually from the virus. We also know an awful lot about the flu and how to manage it, and we have a health system that is set up to deal with a normal amount of flu cases every year.
This is new, has no vaccine/known treatment, and appears to be very, very good at spreading from person to person. It also appears to be very good at making old/compromised patients very sick. While the data are emerging, the (probably overstated) death rate seems to clearly be higher than the swine flu among people at older ages. The transmission events in Korea, China, Iran, Italy, and now Seattle/SF are very concerning, as the virus has shown a strong ability to transmit without people knowing they are contagious (something like half of the people on the Japan cruise ship who were sick didn't show any symptoms.) It also creates material potential to overload local health systems - stack this on top of the flu or other diseases and you run the risk of undertreatment for all manner of other diseases, creating tangential excess mortality.
China going on war footing was a pretty powerful message to the world as well.
It's a little early to say this is less impactful than swine flu given the spread remains quite strong. It appears we have undertested for it to date in the US and we are likely behind in terms of understanding where local transmission has already been occurring.
I do think you raise a good question, though, about are we doing the right things. From what we know about the virus, could we be overfocusing on things like schools and airplanes where this is probably akin to getting a cold to kids and young, healthy adults? Should we be more worried about hospitals and nursing homes where we have a lot of older and immunocompromised individuals?
Good information, good to have you back
From everything I have read the younger you are it seems to ignore you, Kids seem to be rarely or affected very little.
You are right the older generation seems to be the target right now at a very high mortality rate. That is why having three candidates over 70 makes me give pause as to worst case, but that is probable my disaster recovery training thinking out loud.
We should have pause about electing people over age 70 to run the country. It's a big job. There is a reason we retire by that age. It's not only about who they are now, but about how they can decline over a 4 year period. Aging is not linear, and the rate of aging in one's 70s can be rapid even for a healthy adult.
I’ll take the bait. We all know the answer is who was and who is President.
Anything to slow down the economy right now. Even if it means creating panic.
That's a very US-centric, silly answer. There's a substantive difference in global reaction and concern. Do you really believe Japan kept kids home from school for a month or that China locked down tens of millions of people because of Donald Trump? The global response has been much more severe for a different reason.
But what do we do? There is only one option that isn't above 70 and she has 2 delegates. I agree wholeheartedly. It is more than time for the Corey Bookers of the democratic party to take over.
I believe you and I are talking about two different things. I do believe it’s a serious concern but I also believe the media has weaponized it. I know we are very early in this but H1N1 was considered a low death rate and it killed 12,000 in the United States. I don’t recall anyone carrying on in 2009 like they are now.
It was heavily reported on but it wasn’t politicized like this because of who was in office.
The voters chose the old candidates and we're stuck with this choice. We have to do better next time.
It's far too early to draw a conclusion about the severity of the current virus.
You have to acknowledge that the Federal government and other medical experts are treating this as more severe than the swine flu. Why shouldn't the media follow suit? You also had a great recession in 2009 that was sucking up a lot of media.
The media did not follow suit. They was on it before the government and the only delay in the government was a certain party holding up funds.
What? The delay was both sides in Congress saying the White House had asked for too little money!
You don't get it. The fiscally responsible Trump was fighting waste and corruption, just like he did in Ukraine. It was the Democrats' fault for wanting to fund research and development that could last up to 18 months. After all the 'chief doctor of the United States (Trump)' says it should be able to be done in a few months.
The response of the Trump administration to this had been good and I really don’t think the Obama administration did that bad either. China was the apparent source of both contagions and they have a fairly totalitarian society. In a free society you really can’t keep everyone from being exposed.
The difference is this time it looks like there is more of an effort to politicize this.
If 2000 people wind up dying of this in the US is it Trump’s fault? If only 2000 die does that mean the US containment worked? Who prevents someone with symptoms from going to a concert or a sporting event and infecting other people. How much power should the federal and state governments have? I don’t have all the answers but I think you should ask yourself some of those questions.
I see a lot of companies, organizations being very proactive in response to this. It arguably might the the best coordinated attempt to deal with something like this ever. I’m not saying Trump deserves all the credit or even most of the credit. There are thousands of people in multiple countries on it. If anything the question needs to be asked why these contagions (with rare exception of Ebola) seem to all come out of rural China.
The difference is this time it looks like there is more of an effort to politicize this.
If 2000 people wind up dying of this in the US is it Trump’s fault? If only 2000 die does that mean the US containment worked? Who prevents someone with symptoms from going to a concert or a sporting event and infecting other people. How much power should the federal and state governments have? I don’t have all the answers but I think you should ask yourself some of those questions.
I see a lot of companies, organizations being very proactive in response to this. It arguably might the the best coordinated attempt to deal with something like this ever. I’m not saying Trump deserves all the credit or even most of the credit. There are thousands of people in multiple countries on it. If anything the question needs to be asked why these contagions (with rare exception of Ebola) seem to all come out of rural China.
As is India, Brazil, US and Russia but since the Spanish Flu 100 years ago it pretty much starts in the same placate.
It is such a large country with a health care system that is so far behind ours. Yet within a week of the first person catching it they had diagnosed and already had a test for it??? We are still struggling in America how to even test for it and we knew it was coming. Tell me how they did that within such a short time? I hate conspiracy theories but even when you talk off the record to our nurses and doctors they find that very odd.
India is usually too warm, and china is much bigger than the rest of those countries.
Doesn’t help that their government is super secretive and does not like to be publicly embarrassed. Although we are handling it nearly as poorly as they did at first, and we know how bad it can be.
We seem to be handling it just fine. No way to stop all spread of it even if borders totally closed.
Wuhan China is at the same latitude as Hattiesburg,MS. Brazil and China are almost identical in size and India has almost as many people. I’m with you in the secretive part when it comes to China. Bottom line is if there is a garden of eden for Pandemics it seems to be near Wuhan China.
There were cases in their country for weeks before they even knew it was out there.
The better criticism is why it took us so long to ramp up testing when compared to somewhere like South Korea.
If you look at how these infections spread in China, Ebola and other things in Africa, MERS came from camels, swine flu from Mexico, etc. animal interactions matter a lot. China is a big country that eats a lot of animals, and their food supply chain is almost certainly not at the same level as the US. They also eat much more wild game/wild animals, which creates a higher potential for spread.
Personally, I'm more concerned about Iran than China...Iran really messed up their process.
2000 people would not be Trump's fault. And, truly, the executive probably gets more credit or blame for something like this than they should. Much of the response will come from state and local govts, not from the feds. And there's so many unknowns that you can't really help/fix from the White House.
The fairest criticism so far is that we ramped up testing too slowly. That's really a criticism of the executive branch, not really of him. It's not like he was stopping anything from happening.
hell I had some virus that made me run a 104 temp for 4 days they tested me twice for flu and nothing could not move was stuck in bed for a couple of weeks could not breath they tested for pneumonia all sorts of things, I just started feeling better. They just said you just have some sort of virus it will run it's course. So what made China test for Coronavirus? When our great system could never figure out what I had? So it does make you pause why test for it?
They noticed a cluster of pneumonia cases in the ICU in one hospital that were negative for the flu and all other normal virus tests in Wuhan. They sent cultures to their CDC. Their CDC did what ours would do - try to figure out what those people had in common. They found the coronavirus. It had been transmitting for weeks already by the time it was found - they tested people who had already died of pneumonia before the virus was discovered, and some of them tested positive for the infection.
China's CDC is based upon the US system. Once they identified the pathogen, developing a test was pretty trivial. Look at the ease with which numerous countries have rolled out massive testing.
The most difficult part of this is figuring out that you have a problem. E.g. the US undertested for cases for weeks because we didn't think the virus was here yet. Had we felt more strongly that we needed to be testing thousands of people, we'd have had the kits a lot faster, similar to what South Korea has done. IMO, that was the real failure we've seen so far in the US...we should have been testing many more people in LA, SF, Seattle, NYC, and other major international transportation hubs.
There's a big story in the WSJ today about some of the early China bumbles and how it allowed the virus to spread so much.
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It was 90+ in the place this thang started, I'd say the temp has nothing to do with it.
It isn’t near 90 in Wuhan in winter. The middle of China is like the middle of the US. It gets cold when you’re that far from the coast and from the equator.
24 hour media driven hysteria the left and China using the crisis to hurt U.S. economy..and ignorant people who need something to get worked up about to they can rant on Social media sites........22 deaths in American is a YAWN to me. 3,800+ deaths worldwide not a legit threat. 18,000+ deaths from Flu this season in U.S. alone, but Hey don't get your flu shot it's no big deal.
3,800+ people world wide...not 308,000,not 3.8 million and not even close to 308 million. China is doing this for a variety of reasons and it's not because they give a Darn about protecting their Populace. This is about Control and Fear, a basic play from the Communist Playbook.
Japan is in a state of Panic...because it's a China thing, you know the history. The left wing media has jumped on to it for a variety of reasons...All the propaganda already blaming Trump can't be dismissed.
That's not actually accurate..GF RN/Microbiology degree works for public health dept. even on CDC C-virus task force, I work at a Hospital. The Fed's medial facilities etc and such are just reacting to the media induced panic. The virus does kill at a higher rate than the Flu but isn't a Massive danger it is being Ginned up to be. It's basically the Flu that kills elderly men at a very high rate.
You don't spend more money on 22 deaths and less than minimal threat...that is unless the Media decides to use their propaganda machine to try and make you look bad and then you are forced to be illogical and release funds in a wasteful manner.
22 deaths..one person dies every 37 seconds from heart disease. The fact we are even talking about it is the only misstep in handling it. Really nothing to see at all.
Your GF has brained washed you.
The key here is that if you get Corona Virus you have a 5% chance of death. With the flu it is .01%. That’s why being cautious and not letting it get out of hand is critical.
In the US 45 million flu cases 46 thousand deaths. 299 with coronavirus 15 deaths.
If 45 million people get Corona Virus like the flu, 2,250,000 people will die.
Tell gramps that.
