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In another part, I coached at Stockton as an assistant in 2004 during the first of many football staff changes. We had a board with a member who had a son in the program who was average. But because they were AWESOME in junior high and beat up on some lesser teams, all this team needed was a great coach and they would have to book the rooms in St. Louis. They got rid of us against the recommendations of administration, then tried to get Jack Randolph- he said no, tried for another top tier- he laughed then they got Paul Carney who did great things for the program but the same with Coach Carney- he didnt win although he had a HUGE impact on the community - he left to take Osceola to the final 4x. Since then Stockton has been through Welch, Edwards, Kansas and now has Luke ( Please take care of him).
Some times you have a board with no clue as Stockton has had, and as I learned over the years and accepted- You learn as a coach and as long as you know you did every thing for the kids that you could, go find a place that deserves and appreciates what coaching is really about.
 
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thetophat2021 said:
Generational/societal changes play a part, too. This has morphed into a great thread.............
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Hits home for a few of us. I love my district and kids, but I will do whats best for the kids, coach in a way I can look myself in the eye and if the board doesnt like it I'll find a place that does appreciate it.
 
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hangmanbobbyjaggers said:
Bottom line is that coaches' jobs rest in the hands of 7 people. If 1 or 2 are upset, it is easy to get 3 and 4 against the coach and he/she will be gone no matter how good they are at teaching or coaching. I had an admin tell me he did not care about my teaching evaluation because it did not matter what he wrote down if I did not win games. I could be the teacher of the year and be gone if the results were not right.
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I have a coworker who lost his HC job due to the very thing you are talking about!
 
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CoachFox-ScreamingEagles said:
Heres what I hate and I will say it. I coached at Lamar and we won 7 in a row state championships. WELL AWESOME- we got a ring and a trophy and you know what- I looked at mine in the gun case the other day - they are starting to fade and Im sure the trophy has a little dust on it. But you know what WE are extremely proud of- Many of our young men are now successful men, fathers and successful in life. If all I teach you is to block and tackle then I have failed you.
Coaches are judged on wins and losses by alot, but sometimes you ahve to look a little deeper and see the impact the coach is having upon the kids, how are they behaving in school, how are they behaving in the community, what is their grades like. That should go alot deeper than the wins and losses, and its funny, sometimes a coach cant get kids out because the kids just dont want to work as hard as the coach is pushing them. That is integrity when the coach refuses to lower his standards just to get wins.
Winning is just one part of a coaches job, the rest is much deeper than
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Rufus R. Jones said:
Wrong. It is much, much easier to do things in the "off season" now than it has ever been.
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nah, you aren't understanding. Limited contact days, more access to club sports, personal trainers, specialized showcases etc... The HS coach is limited
 
The Camdenton Job will likely be open at the end of this season. Any front runners for that position or do you think they will keep it in house?
 
This will be the next Head football coach a Camdenton.
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kaching said:
In several years of teaching I found teaching evaluations were directly tied to the season’s won-loss record.
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In 24 years of education, I have learned alot of times my evaluations were tied to politics and how well I was liked. IN one school I had a principal who was in my room every spare second she could looking for something. And in other schools, I found out my evaluation was just a formality, one was done while I was in my hunting blind 100 miles away, just getting it in to follow district procedure.
 
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thetophat2021 said:
WOOOOOOOW thanks!
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Pretty crazy, huh? It's wild when you really think about it. Bob came in 74, and I think Mike Silverwood (longtime D-coord) and Jim "Pappy" Pirch (longtime line coach and founder of the "Hogs") came within a year of Bob. I swear, I think one was there the year before and one the year after, but I could be misremembering too. Those three guys were the staple of that program for roughly 30 years before Pappy retired after the 2006 season (I think). Then Silverwood retired the year before Bob did. But man, I can only think of one varsity staff member that didn't play for those guys, and by now he's been there so long he might as well have.

My guess is Par Pitts gets the position and runs with it for a few years. He'll do a great job and have it in a position for one of the "younger" guys on staff to take it over. It's really amazing when you think about it. It's almost like there's a correlation between stability and success. Especially when that stability knows a helluva lot about football, loves teaching it to kids, and works hard at what they do.
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
Pretty crazy, huh? It's wild when you really think about it. Bob came in 74, and I think Mike Silverwood (longtime D-coord) and Jim "Pappy" Pirch (longtime line coach and founder of the "Hogs") came within a year of Bob. I swear, I think one was there the year before and one the year after, but I could be misremembering too. Those three guys were the staple of that program for roughly 30 years before Pappy retired after the 2006 season (I think). Then Silverwood retired the year before Bob did. But man, I can only think of one varsity staff member that didn't play for those guys, and by now he's been there so long he might as well have.

My guess is Par Pitts gets the position and runs with it for a few years. He'll do a great job and have it in a position for one of the "younger" guys on staff to take it over. It's really amazing when you think about it. It's almost like there's a correlation between stability and success. Especially when that stability knows a helluva lot about football, loves teaching it to kids, and works hard at what they do.
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Results speak for themselves indeed! I remember back in the 80s Camdenton was revered every bit at the level Webb City has been the past 2-3 decades and OH BOY did their fans travel. I was at the old Elementary School field at Kearney in 1988 when the Lakers came calling in a first round playoff game. Bus after bus after bus and many others drove up for a meat grinder of a game (14-7 Lakers) in which Jeff was the QB.
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
Pretty crazy, huh? It's wild when you really think about it. Bob came in 74, and I think Mike Silverwood (longtime D-coord) and Jim "Pappy" Pirch (longtime line coach and founder of the "Hogs") came within a year of Bob. I swear, I think one was there the year before and one the year after, but I could be misremembering too. Those three guys were the staple of that program for roughly 30 years before Pappy retired after the 2006 season (I think). Then Silverwood retired the year before Bob did. But man, I can only think of one varsity staff member that didn't play for those guys, and by now he's been there so long he might as well have.

My guess is Par Pitts gets the position and runs with it for a few years. He'll do a great job and have it in a position for one of the "younger" guys on staff to take it over. It's really amazing when you think about it. It's almost like there's a correlation between stability and success. Especially when that stability knows a helluva lot about football, loves teaching it to kids, and works hard at what they do.
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Par Pitts? Didn't he coach at Odessa for a year seasons? If so, those were some of Odessa's worse seasons! I hope I'm misremembering
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
Pretty crazy, huh? It's wild when you really think about it. Bob came in 74, and I think Mike Silverwood (longtime D-coord) and Jim "Pappy" Pirch (longtime line coach and founder of the "Hogs") came within a year of Bob. I swear, I think one was there the year before and one the year after, but I could be misremembering too. Those three guys were the staple of that program for roughly 30 years before Pappy retired after the 2006 season (I think). Then Silverwood retired the year before Bob did. But man, I can only think of one varsity staff member that didn't play for those guys, and by now he's been there so long he might as well have.

My guess is Par Pitts gets the position and runs with it for a few years. He'll do a great job and have it in a position for one of the "younger" guys on staff to take it over. It's really amazing when you think about it. It's almost like there's a correlation between stability and success. Especially when that stability knows a helluva lot about football, loves teaching it to kids, and works hard at what they
Click to expand...
shoot90draw said:
Par Pitts? Didn't he coach at Odessa for a year seasons? If so, those were some of Odessa's worse seasons! I hope I'm misremembering
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I am pretty sure the AD and superintendent that hired Par Pitts were both fired within the month(s) after he was hired at Odessa. Definitely before the school year started. So I am sure this did not help with support during his time there. I still think he might have won a district championship in his first year.
He was at Palmyra for around 10 years before that. Won 5-7 district championships and took them to their only state championship in school history.
Went onto coach at Troy and turned that program around to making them competitive and look where they are today.
I could be wrong on some of this with dates and records but the guy can coach and is a Laker.
 
TheRealJoey said:
Agreed. Example: State track meet ends on Saturday. Coach: "See yall Monday morning for Summer weights..."
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Weight is singular most important thing for athletes. The sport specific training is limited, that's what I am talking about. Skills, games, practices. Track is a tad different in this regard.
 
Stryk3 said:
Weight is singular most important thing for athletes. The sport specific training is limited, that's what I am talking about. Skills, games, practices. Track is a tad different in this regard.
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General Summer conditioning can turn into 11 on 11 flag teams, with an offense practicing Green RIght, X Shift to Viper 382 X Stick Lookie?
 
Stryk3 said:
Weight is singular most important thing for athletes. The sport specific training is limited, that's what I am talking about. Skills, games, practices. Track is a tad different in this regard.
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Most programs now have "Open Field/Open Gym/Off Season/Whatever euphemism you can think of so that we don't call it Practice which is what it is" starting in January or February. It is part of a trend of increasingly year-round practice, for all sports, not just football. It is less limited than it's ever been.
 
Rufus R. Jones said:
Most programs now have "Open Field/Open Gym/Off Season/Whatever euphemism you can think of so that we don't call it Practice which is what it is" starting in January or February. It is part of a trend of increasingly year-round practice, for all sports, not just football. It is less limited than it's ever been.
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I don't know of any schools that do that. Can you give some examples?
 
TheRealJoey said:
Agreed. Example: State track meet ends on Saturday. Coach: "See yall Monday morning for Summer weights..."
Click to expand...
Summer weights isn't (or shouldn't) be a sport specific thing. Shouldn't, and doesn't, count against your contact days. If you're an athlete and you're not lifting...you should be.
 
Rufus R. Jones said:
Most programs now have "Open Field/Open Gym/Off Season/Whatever euphemism you can think of so that we don't call it Practice which is what it is" starting in January or February. It is part of a trend of increasingly year-round practice, for all sports, not just football. It is less limited than it's ever been.
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That's allowed now, at least in your preseason.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Summer weights isn't (or shouldn't) be a sport specific thing. Shouldn't, and doesn't, count against your contact days. If you're an athlete and you're not lifting...you should be.
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Lots of schools do summer weights and yes it's not a sport specific thing but it definitely helps build athletes for all sports. Some schools have weights during the school year as a class.

In my opinion the only thing making it MORE difficult for some kids to participate now is socioeconomic factors. Equipment is expensive - yes some is provided for school sports but you still have to buy certain things and it adds up!

The other thing with that is that many sports in many schools have become so competitive that a kid has no chance of making a team if they don't play the sport in some capacity in the off season as well as take private lessons. Club sports, whether we're talking basketball, baseball, softaball, volleyball are HELLA expensive and so are lessons so some of these teams are skewing heavily into the upper middle class folks because it's impossible for average families to find an extra $100/week for lessons, $1000 for clothing and equipment, $700 per kid per club team - and some do multiple teams or sports. Families that have 2 or 3 kids doing this... geez. You aren't going to compete in the COC or other larger school conferences in certain sports if your team isn't all or mostly kids that fit this description.
 
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sw5890 said:
Lots of schools do summer weights and yes it's not a sport specific thing but it definitely helps build athletes for all sports. Some schools have weights during the school year as a class.

In my opinion the only thing making it MORE difficult for some kids to participate now is socioeconomic factors. Equipment is expensive - yes some is provided for school sports but you still have to buy certain things and it adds up!

The other thing with that is that many sports in many schools have become so competitive that a kid has no chance of making a team if they don't play the sport in some capacity in the off season as well as take private lessons. Club sports, whether we're talking basketball, baseball, softaball, volleyball are HELLA expensive and so are lessons so some of these teams are skewing heavily into the upper middle class folks because it's impossible for average families to find an extra $100/week for lessons, $1000 for clothing and equipment, $700 per kid per club team - and some do multiple teams or sports. Families that have 2 or 3 kids doing this... geez. You aren't going to compete in the COC or other larger school conferences in certain sports if your team isn't all or mostly kids that fit this description.
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You Hit the Nail on the Head with this take. In the skill sports especially.
 
sw5890 said:
Lots of schools do summer weights and yes it's not a sport specific thing but it definitely helps build athletes for all sports. Some schools have weights during the school year as a class.

In my opinion the only thing making it MORE difficult for some kids to participate now is socioeconomic factors. Equipment is expensive - yes some is provided for school sports but you still have to buy certain things and it adds up!

The other thing with that is that many sports in many schools have become so competitive that a kid has no chance of making a team if they don't play the sport in some capacity in the off season as well as take private lessons. Club sports, whether we're talking basketball, baseball, softaball, volleyball are HELLA expensive and so are lessons so some of these teams are skewing heavily into the upper middle class folks because it's impossible for average families to find an extra $100/week for lessons, $1000 for clothing and equipment, $700 per kid per club team - and some do multiple teams or sports. Families that have 2 or 3 kids doing this... geez. You aren't going to compete in the COC or other larger school conferences in certain sports if your team isn't all or mostly kids that fit this description.
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I have always thought this to be true. I would love the breakdown of the last decade and how many teams have won a state title with a Free/Reduced Lunch rate above 50%. Sometimes the only meals some kids get are the ones at school and when you're talking growth and recovery, they are far behind compared to that of a kid that comes from a more well off home.
 
What if you have a coach who just does the job because it’s fun as hell for him? He loves the game and believes his example and work ethic will model exactly what the kids need to get out of the experience. He is also an excellent teacher in the classroom. Is that enough? Or does he have to care enough to get involved with all 60+ of their lives off the field?
 
Toots_mcgee said:
What if you have a coach who just does the job because it’s fun as hell for him? He loves the game and believes his example and work ethic will model exactly what the kids need to get out of the experience. He is also an excellent teacher in the classroom. Is that enough? Or does he have to care enough to get involved with all 60+ of their lives off the field?
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Is he good with Twitter?
 
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Rufus R. Jones said:
Most programs now have "Open Field/Open Gym/Off Season/Whatever euphemism you can think of so that we don't call it Practice which is what it is" starting in January or February. It is part of a trend of increasingly year-round practice, for all sports, not just football. It is less limited than it's ever been.
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Less restricted by standards of MSHSAA. Year round Open facility was less restricting in actuality. what used to be unlimited open facilities year round is now limited to 7 weeks of 3 hours per week. So that was my take on coaches have more restrictions. Now that MSHSAA has these in place now with off season practices, coaches are now going to be less likely to do anything outside of that 7 week period. There will be more violations being reported if a coach is trying to do anything with players outside of that 7 week period. I guess I agree with you, but I don't lol
 
OK, the season is over. Time for the coaching carousel. Lots of rumors - but have there been changes yet? Probably will be some before Christmas break.
 
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