Class 2-
- Thread starter Veer2Eternity
- Start date
Did some one from Valle steal your dog or something? You seem to have an awful big grudge against one little private school.
I'm pointing out the logical fallacy of your attack on the other private schools 'big donors'.
Clearly valle gives scholarships. Appears that 80%+ of the males enrolled play football, it's safe to say some football players are getting breaks from 'donors'.
How many scholarships do they give a year to just football players? Would bet just as may band kids, science kids, or kids that just want a better education get reduced tuition. I dont see a farming community having a bunch of people writing million dollar checks to give Johnny a football scholarship. What did St Marys have last year? 80 percent of the students on scholarships. Hence the big donor comment. Hell I cant believe I am even defending Valle after all the times they beat my school. Have a good one Veer I love a good debate with ya.
I'm not sure how many. just like you don't know how many 'Recruiting School_002' gives.
Farmers have more money that suburban dudes. Ever price a combine?
Now that you say that, you do see a lot Corvettes at farms.
I bet @BoosterBosko has skimmed enough off the booster fund to have one in his garage.
Have you seen my doc?? If you had, then you would know I drive a good old fashioned American Cadillac!! The funds from the Ampipe Booster Club have better uses! NICE TRY BOZO!!!
80% of ALL students at St Mary’s received tuition assistance. Not just athletes.
On top of that most tuition assistance goes through the St.Louis Archdiocese and is income based. While I’m sure the are donors that sponsor a kid, it’s not as common as you think.
On top of that Valle’s tuition is under $5,000. That’s fairly manageable for most middle class incomes.
I love that vallefan is making claims that some unknown deep pocketed donor paid for all those students tuition.
It's almost as good as vallefan crying on the board about getting beat by teams with an unfair advantage.
Big Blue is "in his head 24-7" LOL
The rumors about Valle recruiting, giving scholarships, and screening/limiting enrollment have been around for years...and they are all so stupid.
Valle has really low numbers...they are lucky to even be afloat. They have had some good athletes over the years...but never a D-I athlete and damn few even D-II or NAIA.
Some years they have been really talented...but some years they have actually won with mostly pretty average athletes...and their coaching, culture, and tradition has carried them.
Anybody realizes that ANY private school has an advantage over public schools the same size because if parents think enough of their kids to pay tuition to send them to a private school...the kids have push, support, and direction from home...which unfortunately a good number of kids at most public schools DON'T have.
At most private schools...almost every kid participates in some (and usually multiple activities)...and that is not the case at most public schools.
Nobody is going to feel sorry for Valle...and I think they should play up a class...Class-2 is fair for them.
The sad thing is...only the smaller schools get punished. What levels the playing field for the Class-6 Private schools?
CBC can roll out a team every years with 4-6 D-I players and a slew of D-II/NAIA supporting players....at Troy Buchanan we've had exactly ONE D-I player in the history of the school and damn few D-II or NAIA?
Is that fair? No...but Veer says that MSHSAA "coddles" Class 6. Hell...Class-6 in football and boys basketball is probably the MOST unfair division of them all (save for maybe Incarnate Word in Girls Basketball).
Also...can you really compare Valle to the Metro area Privates who seemingly recruit pretty well as they roll out multiple high level college athletes each year?
The system is obviously broken...as the D-I talent in St. Louis used to be pretty spread amongst several schools...it now is seemingly concentrated in a very few.
What's the answer? I don't know. However...Valle wins a lot because of their tradition, culture, and coaching. So do many great public school programs like Blair Oaks, Lamar, and Webb City.
Valle mostly has good to really good Class-2 type athletes...definitely not top level Class-3. They belong in Class-2...not in Class-3. Valle had some pretty good teams get handled easily by Class-2 Lamar when they played twice just a few years back.
Valle has no real inherit advantages over other nearby small privates like St. Vincent and St. Pius in Festus. Their tradition/culture/coaching is just better.
You want to talk about unfair? If Troy Buchanan girls basketball can win Districts (like they have for the last couple of years)...their "reward" is getting smashed by national power-house Incarnate Word Academy in the next round.
Again...I don't know what the answer is. If you separate Public & Private schools...does that fix everything? I don't know the answer...but it seems unfair to punish Valle by 2-classes...when schools that really do recruit a lot of high level D-I talent...don't really care...or CAN'T be bumped up.
College football is better this year because of parity...most of the top level talent is not stock-piled in the same 4-6 schools like it has been for the past several years.
The transfer portal and NIL have seemed to had the OPPOSITE affect of what I and most of us feared...the rich have seemingly NOT gotten richer. It seems to have brought about more parity which I think is good for the sport.
What can be done to bring more parity to HS athletics (where seemingly in football it seems to be the worst)???
I don't have the answer...wish I did...
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Still waiting on that proof of recruiting and my post that I made to you. Ill wait.
read it real slow:
Since Valle got 'good' again, SV went in the tank.
Coincidence I'm sure.
Hey Corky. Let me spell it for you. SHOW FREAKING PROOF. Please oh please let me see where St vincent was better than Valle before they went in the tank. Do you just throw crap on a wall and hope it sticks? Put the keyboard down. It truly is sad how many times you have tried to do this crap over the years and have 0 proof of anything. It truly must sucl to have Blue and White Warriors dancing in your head like riverdance.
Post of the year.
It is a great post and makes a lot of sense. I feel like one key element was left out. How many years did they control their enrollment to dominate class one? Can a public school do this?
Everything Graphic Edge Guy says in his post is accurate and true about Valle. And I have absolutely no horse in the race but being in the Mineral Area, I can attest. Valle culture is tremendous and they rely on that enrollment to keep their school afloat. I can promise that they are not limiting enrollment. Period. And he addresses the "limiting enrollment" issue in his first line.
"The rumors about Valle recruiting, giving scholarships, and screening/limiting enrollment have been around for years...and they are all so stupid."
I’m my own worst enemy. I tend to speed read. Thanks for clarifying I missed that line but I still find it hard to believe they do not limit enrollment. This would relate to more than just football for the school.
they have financial aid aka scholarships.
Scholarships
Starting in January, scholarships are available for the upcoming school year to families seeking tuition assistance at:• All elementary schools in the Archdiocese of St. Louis
• All Catholic high schools
• Any private elementary school in the City of St. Louis
One unified online application is available at http://ttef-stl.org/ for all scholarships funded by the Today and Tomorrow Educational Foundation (TTEF), the Roman Catholic Foundation of Eastern Missouri, and the Office of Catholic Education and Formation. For questions please contact the TTEF scholarship office at 314-792-7777 or email ttef@archstl.org.
Local scholarships applications are available for rising freshmen students each year in March. All questions regarding scholarships are to be directed to our guidance counselor Mrs. Carrie Gegg at geggc@valleschools.org.
Not necessarily so. There is probably a tipping point where more kids equate to more spending on buildings, land and employees.
And aren’t all schools not for profit?
All I know is I sent my kids to a Public school that had outstanding teachers and facilities and it cost me $0! To me that was better than financial aid and like a scholarship.
Will this is true in certain circumstance this isn't relevant to this situation. I would say in this case they need more students to fill the space they already have.
You still run it like business whether it is not for profit or not.
Doesn't Adrian (and all public schools for that matter) give unlimited FREE tuition "scholarships" to all students??? My kids all went to a public HS and all got FREE TUITION "scholarships"
Yea but they have a lot smaller school district.Doesn't Adrian (and all public schools for that matter) give unlimited FREE tuition "scholarships" to all students??? My kids all went to a public HS and all got FREE TUITION "scholarships"
If a dude comes from archie or harrisonville they gotta pay and the booster club can't pay his tuition.
Trust me...they do NOT limit enrollment. Enrollment is dangerously low. They have one grade school class that has only 12 total students...they can't stay afloat with numbers like that.
I was an assistant at Valle from 78-80...and then I was Head Coach at Ste. Gen. Public from 1983-1988. ...only beat Valle once during my six years there...but I knew they weren't cheating because I knew the kids and their parents.
Hell...most of my players at the public school were Catholic and some went to Valle grade school....two of my best players had older siblings that played for us at Valle when I was there a few years earlier.
Valle does not cheat...PERIOD. I know this for a fact. Their kids are good but not great athletes...they always outperform their talent level.
Valle was pretty average for a time after John Bacon left to go to Farmington...primarily because of coaching instability and the culture went backwards.
Valle Alum, Judd Naeger took the reins and has stayed and gotten the culture and tradition back on track and then some.
Valle is lucky to have him...and has been fortunate to keep him. He has had offers to leave for a LOT more money...but he chooses to stay.
He loves Valle and money is not the most important thing to him...and he is fortunate that his wife has a very successful and really, really good bar/restaurant in Bloomsdale (The Dew Drop Inn...I HIGHLY recommend it if you're ever in the area https://dewdropmo.com/)
Judd also is very fortunate to have a staff of really good assistants who are also Valle alums. They are all really good people and work hard at their coaching.
Yes they have some good athletes (any winning program does)...but they are not super big or super fast...and not many are college caliber players and the ones that do play in college are small college caliber.
If you took that staff to a good public school...they would have similar type success....and if they left... Valle would fall off immediately.
Having played Lamar teams from 3rd on up it starts with just having good talent.
And I am not dogging the community the town is nice the schools are nice, the people are nice, but even if they wanted to recruit talent what is their leverage? Lamar has nothing going for it, the biggest employer closed down several years ago, they could not even afford to open their public swimming pool. They just cannot offer anything outside of a winning football team to get somebody to move there, so what they win with is home grown talent. And all that talent plays for the one public high school in that town. And if your going to drive from Lamar to Joplin Area for a Job there are 4 Schools that are closer and would have more opportunity for you kid so why drive. Crazy to think Lamar recruits.
Believe it or not...Valle's scholarships are strictly based on financial need...and not on athletic ability,,,but I know I'm wasting my time telling you that because your mind is already made up.
You think you know more than me...even though I actually lived in that town for nine years and coached at both schools.
I told you Valle has an advantage over public schools (like ALL private schools do) because they attend to attract higher caliber kids from supporting families.
However...you keep insisting that Valle bends the rules to get athletes. I know they don't...but I also know that you will never be convinced. That's YOUR problem...and if you ever coach a team that plays Valle your kids will be beat before they ever take the field because "they are IN your head 24/7!"
mic drop
1) BS. 85% of the male population plays football
2) That's clear for sure.
3) Higher caliber kids? Like the kids at St. Mary's? or Lamar?
4) I don't say they bend or break the rules. It's the system that's broke.
Pick it up son.
Now I cant speak for a President of Booster Club for a private school. As Ampipe is a PUBLIC school. But I'd say that president needs to get their crap together!
you're a sad, sad, little man ;-(
You're the one crying
...Which part triggered your inner snowflake?
Also what did you mean by 'higher caliber kids'?
IMO, Valle is similar to Helias. They probably have a rich tradition and people in the area want to send their kids there and attend parochial all the way through grade school. I think while both of those schools do have advantages over a public schools, they don't blatantly recruit like Cardinal Ritter, St. Mary's Etc. I definitely agree on your earlier posts that they are well coached and maximize their talent level. IDK the way to fix the system because I think most would agree not all privates are the same and I don't think they should all be in one class together.
I agree with you 100% on Valle and Helias being similar. I also think that what Graphic Edge is saying about Valle is mostly true. But there is no denying that they have had some sort of competitive advantage in Class 1 all those years. I think the Championship Factor is completely fair to Valle and although Class 3 is probably a bit much for them, they will settle in Class 2 most years and probably do just fine.
Also, I want to go on the record to say that I am a fan of Valle Catholic. They have maintained a rich tradition. I look forward to hosting them week 1 next year.
You're right .
Does valle have IEP kids? EMO kids? Kids that miss half the school days?
That is their true advantage (combined with pulling at LEAST one county).
If Adrian pulls from all Bates County and gets rid of the *AHEM* non-high caliber kids , they're class 1 yearly and romp and stomp.
Then of course, cass county is 5 miles away and i'm sure some of those kids will come for the education too. Tuition paid of course.
That's the advantage.
