MSHSAA eligibility rules for athletes obv has the citizenship clause. 2.2.2 gives info for if a player is eligible or not depending on the type of offense. Question is if players are held to that standard, should coaches also be held to it? I agree for drug, alcohol, stealing, assault type crimes there should be punishment, but objectively it seems rather odd to punish a 15-18 year old for making a dumb mistake but to not hold a 22-60+ year old coach who is mature enough to know right from wrong.
Citizenship eligibility
- Thread starter Pancho and Lefty
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Yea this is too bland of a statement....if a coach is arrested for any of the above they are fired or suspended. Not sure how you think coaches are not held to same standard. Of course legal counsel just like a students is often used to lessen the punishment. Give an example.
Yes. And if a math teacher doesn't get their homework done, the principal should call their parents. Tired of the "dog ate it" crap from some of these people.
Probably could have worded it better. This isn’t a witch hunt or anything. I guess a better way to put it could have been every season, you hear about players who are suspended for drinking, fighting, stealing, etc. You would be quite naive to think that coaches don’t make mistakes as well, yet you rarely hear about it. Should they be held to the same standard? Should each school district decide that or should MSHSAA have a set of rules for coaches and administrators as well?
Also coaches and administrators who do a good job will get a pizza party at the end of the quarter.
Yes don’t celebrate successes or allow the children to have fun at school. That’s not your job. Just hit the bad ones on the knuckles with a ruler like Sister Lucy did in first grade.
Let's say, hypothetically of course, that a couple of teachers decided they wanted to supplement their income and pay down student loans by posting nudie pics on an adults-only (cough, cough) website. Wonder what would happen in that case?
Not going to cite specific cases, but I imagine if you really wanted to dig into cases, you'd find a lot of coaches, teachers and administrators have paid for their lapses in judgement by finding themselves unemployed or at much smaller districts in lower paying positions. Teachers, at least in smaller communities, are held to some pretty high standards. Case in point, the ladies from St Clair that found themselves suddenly focusing full time on what had been their side hustle. Do some folks guilty of crappy behavior manage to keep jobs? Sure, there are schmucks everywhere and supervisors that enable. But do folks deserve a second chance? Oh, hell yes, based on if it's a forgivable offense, of course. But based on what I've seen over the years, most (not all) but most districts get discipline cases right.
Merry Christmas, y'all.
Not going to cite specific cases, but I imagine if you really wanted to dig into cases, you'd find a lot of coaches, teachers and administrators have paid for their lapses in judgement by finding themselves unemployed or at much smaller districts in lower paying positions. Teachers, at least in smaller communities, are held to some pretty high standards. Case in point, the ladies from St Clair that found themselves suddenly focusing full time on what had been their side hustle. Do some folks guilty of crappy behavior manage to keep jobs? Sure, there are schmucks everywhere and supervisors that enable. But do folks deserve a second chance? Oh, hell yes, based on if it's a forgivable offense, of course. But based on what I've seen over the years, most (not all) but most districts get discipline cases right.
Merry Christmas, y'all.
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No sir! They did not!
Coaches have been drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes forever. Now they can legally take a toke or indulge in edibles. That is not breaking the law! If arrested…. That is a problem and prolly up to a school district depending on their faculty handbook.
I would say potential losing job, being put on admin leave without pay is punishment. The court of public opinion to get hired on in another district is also there. Obviously these are things that happen when a coach breaks the law. Drinking at a bar with friends, smoking etc...is legal for those 21 and over so obviously nothing is wrong with that in majority of eyes. These things are set by school district policy not MSHSAA.
As far as behavior during MSHSAA contests, ejections, fighting, berating officials are handled the same by MSHSAA for players and coaches. Suspensions etc...School may also have additional punishment as well.
Nope, not in any sense, no. However...
Early in my college experience I was an education major. A professor told us a couple things that probably changed my course away from education and I remember to this day: 1. Don't buy your beer in the town where you teach. 2. There's little difference between illegal, unethical and immoral in the eyes of the public.
Is what happened to the OF ladies wrong? Good question. The ACLU would probably say "no". The old ladies at Friday bridge club that are grumpy about the personal property tax check they just scratched would probably say "yes". (But in fairness, they are grumpy about most things) Some folks are just held to a different standard. Perhaps we should deflect away from educators and discuss the double standards for our politicians?
Mele Kalikimaka
As well meaning as your professor may have been, he should have been teaching you your rights as a public sector employee. He was giving you the administration line. Most administrators (which your professor may have been at one point) will choose the expediency of playing politics over employee rights every day of the week. They learn school liability law in their paint by numbers Master's classes, but they often only learn employment law the hard way.
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I get what you're saying, very good points. You may win in the court of law, but will you win in the court of public opinion? Looking back, he had years, if not decades, of teaching potential teachers and watching what happened to teachers around the state. Can you win that case in a union heavy teacher market like Chicago? Probably. Can you win it in Petticoat Junction where unless you're an MSTA or NEA member you'll have to front your own atty? Ehhh, tough call. Teaching, right now, is a rough market and we need excellent ones more than ever.
If you are going to break the law, be sure to have a school board member in attendance with you. It really comes down to 7 people in every situation that happens. Hell you do not even have to break the law and they get rid of you because you did not play their Johnny or Susie.
That’s always been the key. Do you have enough friends in high places and are they willing to go to bat for you? Having multiple people on the school board who you have drinks with at the local watering hole from time to time will definitely save you any grief on that closed board meeting that determines one’s fate.
99% never goes before the board... AD, Principal, Sup should make the call and generally do. Hire a good Superintendent and stay out of the way and let him do his job...
In all the school board meetings I have ever attended it does.
I remember several years ago we hiring a new coach it was announced that the board would be interviewing 3 of the finalist at that board meeting to decide on one. Well funny thing happened during the board meeting a tweet goes out by a local paper that the board had approved the hiring of so and so for head coach. It was news to everybody sitting in on that board meeting because that had not came up yet. It really became news to all the board members as they were sitting around reading the tweet about the coach they had approved and hired and they had never gotten to talk to the candidates.
And if you hire a bad one and stay out of his way you lose over 30 teachers a year... and have uncertified staff teaching.
Maybe the reason you don't hear about coaches drinking is because it's not illegal for coaches to be drinking.
Why do you think it's a "mistake" for coaches to be drinking?
So no, to answer your question, they shouldn't be held to the same standard. It's legal for coaches above the age of 21 to be drinking. It's not legal for high school students to be drinking.
IMO coaches can drink/smoke/edible etc all they want. What people do legally and on their own time is their own business and have all the fun you want. Obv by saying drinking, fighting, stealing etc. I was meaning when there was a criminal offense along with it.
If schools are following the MSHSAA bylaws correctly, a player is essentially suspended for anything other than a speeding/parking type ticket. My statement was meaning there are MSHSAA rules and bylaws for players to follow, so should coaches have to have the same? And I know individual districts have their own rules for their employees. This was just a topic of conversation, not a witch hunt or a got ya moment.
A simple casenet search can save schools and communities a lot of headaches and let them know what they are getting into.
Why is a school board talking to coaching candidates? That is not their job. The only person they actually hire is the Sup. They approve all other hires, but they should not be doing the interviews or picking coaches... talk about getting out of your lane.
Not true at all. I knew a coach who was hired for a girls basketball job for 2 weeks by the AD and Admin. He got a call a few weeks later saying the school board wanted to interview him. Needless to say he was not going to take the job, but was also voted 4-3 to go in a different direction. Crazy stuff man
actually it is true, if a board is doing the job they are supposed to do. The example you show is a great example of overreach.
Shows who actually has the final say in matters with the school. They do not have to go by what admins say. If they want to hire someone they will
And that is a shame. There job is to set policy. When the board is hiring and firing people, that district is doomed. And yes, it happens more than it should, but that's where a strong admin can be a buffer between BOE and Teacher's/Coaches. If a admin isnt willing to lose their job to do what is RIGHT and in the BEST interest of students and athletes, and teachers then again District is doomed.
Well honestly they were not doing the hiring, I believe just talking but I don't know honestly it was just on the agenda for the board meeting that night. But it did surprise them a bit but I don't think any were upset, just surprised however the candidate still was approved and we moved forward.
I still think it's odd that players have to sit out the next contest the following season if ejected from the final game, but coaches aren't held to the same standard.
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