Seemed to really change when Kimble retired. Always felt like he was a guy that understood the truly important things a place like that needed to succeed.
Bailey resigns again
- Thread starter AC100
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Actually that’s when (he was there) the fall began. Dr. Straub was a great leader. The cards started to fall after he left.
You just described almost every place in America today. If a coach sees some hope/talent he sticks around and wins in that culture. If a coach, especially a coach concerned about reputation/ego, sees that winning ain’t gonna happen he finds the exit. Then everybody can talk about how bad the culture was and how non-supportive the community, yada-yada-yada. The good ones are the ones who stay and try to fix it no matter how hard it is.
No it's not the culture of almost every place in America. The places that are successful are not like that. You can't be successful with a crappy culture. Look I don't know Coach Bailey, I personally have no reason to defend him. I'm just calling it like I see it when it comes to Jeff City. Besides he has already proven he's willing to change the culture, he did it at Lamar. The difference is the Lamar administration and community was willing to work with him, and were willing to make the changes in order to be better.
As a coach you have to decide if you're able to make that change and/or if the school is willing to make that change. When a school has shown time and time again they are not willing to make the necessary changes in order to be better. As a coach you leave, coaches have to do what's best for them and their families. Why would a coach who can be happier somewhere else or be better off somewhere else stay.
If you're a person that wants to bang your head against the wall and never get anywhere then that's your choice. Others choose differently.
No criticism here. I just like to compliment those guys who take the hard jobs and bang their head against the wall, striving to win with kids who probably need it more than the kids in those “good” cultures. When a top notch coach quits after a year or two in a tough culture it makes me wonder what he thought he was getting into, and why he doesn’t stay and fight.
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I have had a lot of really good friendships with a lot of coaches over the years and have sat and discussed with many why they weren't as successful as they hoped after they left a job. Most mentioned many of the same obstacles that are mentioned in this thread.
Lamar provided a unique environment and got a unique result.
But the reality is not every school is Lamar or Webb City. There are plenty of coaches winning at schools where the obstacles to success resemble Jeff City a lot more than people are probably willing to admit.
I have a lot of respect for those coaches.
There are an awful lot of coaches coaching in communities that don't have the right kind of support from their administration or have problem kids from troubled homes, or have crazy parents, or that don’t have a booster club providing them fancy things, or have a fan base that doesn't even know or care there is a game on Friday. There are coaches coaching in places in this state that don’t even have lights to play on Friday and have to play on Saturday afternoons.
There is an attempt to portray the challenges at Jeff City as completely outside the norm. Perhaps to save face.
Maybe they were. Not for me to say.
However, there is a lesson here for everyone that I had pounded into my head in the military — success is a product of the people around you and without those people providing you the things you need to be successful, even the best people can fail.
They did have a coach who did this for 12 years, fought and worked his butt off for the kids at that school. A state championship coach and one of the best coaches in the state, and they fired him because he wasn't winning state titles. He put a winning team and winning product on the field every year except for his last year which is what got him canned in the end.
This isn't about excuses or trying to portray anything, these are the facts of the matter. Unless you're really in the know, then you just really don't know.
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At JC it is definitely different on inside looking out than outside looking in. I can never second guess a man without walking in his shoes. Think that is the message here. Sometimes we believe we can conquer a challenge and we find out we’ve bit off more than we can chew. Or we just don’t want to chew it anymore because we don’t like the taste. There is something to be said for peace of mind. Especially if you’re in danger of losing it.
I’m not here to defend JC. My point is many schools have similar or worse climates and coaches power through and deal with difficult situations..
I respect those coaches..
That’s it. Coach Bailey record speaks for itself. Hes done what he’s done with the help of a community that bought in and supported what he was doing.
That doesn’t happen everywhere. If the expectation was it was going to happen at JC then he probably wasn’t reading this board much.
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Not just picking a fight, maybe he is leaving because he knows its a lost cause. Or maybe wasn't allowed or getting to do what he felt was totally necessary to get it done, and got the heck out. When the boat is sinking, sometimes you get the heck out and don't worry about bailing water.
I'm talking about Ted LePage, the coach they fired 4 years ago. This is also about the school and the poor decisions they've made over the years, and the way things are around there.
Now as the last two coaches go, I understand why they left and it doesn't bother me. Now if it bothers you that's fine. Coach Walker and Coach Bailey made the personal decision to leave and be happier doing something else. You can disagree with their decision, you're free to do that. But don't just disregard the facts for what they are, and make the accusation that I or anyone else are trying to portray it as an excuse.
Along with Helias and Blair Oaks, don't forget the recent success Fatima has had as well. That's 15 minutes down the road. Of course that school should add football but that is another subject for another day.
That’s simply not true. Especially in a place like JC with all the politics and hurdles. There’s a reason they’ve lost a lot of good people.
You have to have support to change it. That support is the major thing lacking in Jeff.
Fair enough. Hard to argue the success and reputation of the district under Straub. That is an absolute fact.
If the administration is not 100% behind a coach and his staff then the job of fixing a failing culture is impossible. Getting the Players and Parents behind the coach can also be daunting at times but winning usually takes care of that and you can't win unless the Administration backs you and allows your Program to flourish.
If you don't have the Administration backing you then leaving is the only option.
I do agree a lot of America and communities have become Rot invested with a culture that has the Desire to win, but is lacking in the Resolve to do the Hard and Gritty things necessary to Win. To many places have Decayed with believing the easy path is the best way to success and any other path is 100% resisted thus insuring failure.
Bailey had his powerhouse in his hometown of Lamar. Because of this, I imagine his level of support was deeper there than it would be in most any other community.
Lamar was frankly a joke when it came to football pre-Bailey. He had at least as much a role in creating the culture and support as he did benefit from it.
I think he could go to another program, let’s say like Rolla and have them competing for state titles within a few years. I think it is pretty well documented that JC has problems that makes winning there a tall order.
I know there are obstacles at JC that make things tough. With any tradition-rich place, expectations can sometimes be unreasonable. But they're still the expectations. The thing about tradition? When it's gone, it's gone. A 15 year old does not care at all what happened 5 years ago, not to mention 40. No offense, but they don't care what Pete Adkins did in the 1970's. Many of the obstacles that have to be fought at JC have to be fought at a lot of places. Some things can be changed- support from administration, coaching staff, etc. Many cannot- mainly socioeconomic factors. It's more than just, "well those lazy ass kids need a little discipline." Yeah, they need that- they need a lot of things in their lives, and football isn't necessarily the biggest priority. Same with a lot of similar places, large and small.
Cheetah King I totally agree Coach Bailey created a culture at Lamar and his record at Lamar was incredible. I'll stick with my statement that it being his hometown was an influence. Obviously, there have/are coaches who have returned to their hometowns and not neared the nine-year run that Bailey had. And with being a hometown hero there are often new sets of concerns... I have nothing but respect for Coach Bailey.
Not that I know much about Bailey or JC but it seems like a place somewhat similar to how Joplin is or at least how it used to be. A large school in a smaller city. Good history but current system is broke and apathetic. Parents that want to win (either because they won as kids or because now they see Webb City next door) but a lot of kids don't care. A jumbled mess of egos, conflicting personal agendas, and lots of people with opinions on how to get there but not many willing to get their hands dirty unless it benefits them personally. I think Joplin has done a good job at bringing in a lot of fresh faces across the board and things seem WAY better over there than 10 years ago. Not just in football.
Some places the culture works for you and some places it works against you. You may have a good coach but individuals on the school board or in administration have their own hidden agenda, like a brother in law they wanted for the coaching job, so they sow discontent among their well connected circles. You'd be surprised how much petty political stuff like that happens. Some towns are worse than others. Bolivar comes to mind. Carthage used to be a place that was notorious for promoting under-qualified local favorite candidates but I don't think that's as much the case anymore.
Then other places I know will support the coach 110% as long as they are winning. Parents and kids don't care about the who's and what's - they just buy in because it's working and they want a piece. Administration gives a long leash and an entirely different set of rules of conduct etc for them and anyone connected to them and are quick to sweep PR issues under the rug.
Some places the culture works for you and some places it works against you. You may have a good coach but individuals on the school board or in administration have their own hidden agenda, like a brother in law they wanted for the coaching job, so they sow discontent among their well connected circles. You'd be surprised how much petty political stuff like that happens. Some towns are worse than others. Bolivar comes to mind. Carthage used to be a place that was notorious for promoting under-qualified local favorite candidates but I don't think that's as much the case anymore.
Then other places I know will support the coach 110% as long as they are winning. Parents and kids don't care about the who's and what's - they just buy in because it's working and they want a piece. Administration gives a long leash and an entirely different set of rules of conduct etc for them and anyone connected to them and are quick to sweep PR issues under the rug.
Well said. With that truth, comes another truth. Some coaches can make a place better if they are willing to lose some games along the way. There are some really good coaches and heroic individuals in some of those awful cultures you mention who stick it out for years and never get a championship, and retire fine with it because they made a difference.
I think CJ has some good coaches in place if Buck retired. I would hate to see them not hire one in particular.
Not good again until 7th grade? Ptfff. They will be fine. They have a lot of kids coming up and the tempo is changing.
Not good again until 7th grade? Ptfff. They will be fine. They have a lot of kids coming up and the tempo is changing.
Another(much smaller) town that comes to mind is Stockton. that has been mentioned at length in another thread.
You hear it in his voice during the pregame radio interviews that Bailey wasn't real happy there. Can't be Lepage, Walker and Bailey fault. Gotta be Administrative. Hearing the same problems over and over again!
You must have inside knowledge of the school. Let me see...when things don’t work out you blame admin, that’s the typical answer. Bottom line is when things aren’t going well for a coach who has had success, the easy thing to do is blame someone else. Does JC have its challenges and issues? Sure like any school. What JC does offer from a football standpoint...best facilities in the state ✅, resources and funds✅ Ability to attract quality asst coaches ✅ athletes ✅
What most coaches that have come in recently, don’t get the support from the outside entities. The small loud group of folks that live in the past and are more worried about the good Ol days. They yell the loudest and for some reason have had a voice. Maybe that is lack of admin leadership. Only thing that’s going to fix it is patience, time and ability for a coach to come in and establish a culture from youth level on up. No admin is stopping anyone from that. Class 6 football and at JC is just different. Unless people are willing to give time it’s going to be merry go round for years. It can and will be a great job for someone who is going to stay and invest. Bailey was not the long term fix, no matter how much success he’s had. He did the best he could in a short amount of time.
Yes class 5 now. I get it, my point was over the last few years of coaches leaving.
I don't disagree with your second paragraph. You made some good points. There are plenty of people from the outside that created plenty of the issues with the football program. Jay Football Foundation and Pete Adkins were the driving factor as to why Ted LePage got fired. They have been after him since 2010. The administration never helped the situation though. So yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around.
Your point about the administration I'm going to disagree with though. There are way too many issues that adults in that district, either allow to happen or don't allow to happen. The administration is not the whole problem, but they are the key to solving most of the issues from with in the school district. There are way too many administrators there that don't care about the school, the staff and the kids. They care about the paycheck, because Jeff City is the highest paying school district right now in the area, and they throw some good money at administration. I find it funny how many administrators send their kids to let's say for example Blair Oaks, then preach to people how great Jeff City is blah blah blah blah. Well if it's so great why don't their kids go there, or why don't they live in the district. Don't sell me the line of BS because I'm not buying it. I'm not saying the administration is the only problem, just saying it's a big part of it, and it's the biggest key to changing the culture of a school. This isn't just about football, this is about the district as a whole. The way a district is ran, will have a big impact on the quality of extracurricular programs. I know a lot of different people that work in the district, and when I hear the things that they deal with, it makes my blood boil sometimes. A school district doesn't have to have all the issues they do, and it just flat out doesn't have to be that way.
Blair Oaks used to not be what it is now, but they brought administration in there that raised the standards and expectations and never wavered from them. There was nothing wrong with the community, they just needed a culture change in the school district. It happened, they held parents, staff, and students accountable, and still do to this day. They cleaned the school up and hired the right people. This was around 2000, and it's no coincidence that from that point forward Blair Oaks was successful and still are successful at pretty much everything they do. It's also the reason the district has doubled in enrollment in the last 15 years, which has also made the area grow a lot. I could go on but hopefully you get the point I'm making.
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