Private Schools

[jlar2015]

Saw the state rankings for HS players came out. Incarnate has the number 1 senior, number 1 junior, and number 3 sophomore in their respective classes. I'm sure the girls on the team didn't decide to go to Incarnate after growing up playing in the head coaches basketball academy and then transfer from their public middle school to the private school. I know MSHSAA will say this is legal and just make your players better (unless you in the STL area because if you make your players better you will probably be playing against them after they transfer).

Private schools that recruit HS kids are like playing college teams with HS teams. Most public schools have to build their program and develop their players from the youth level through High School level. Privates go out and pick the best kids and say here is an academic scholarship and come attend our school. All in all its a shallow way to win...but thats just my opinion.

This message isn't to take anything away from the girls on the teams. I am sure they have worked their A$$es off to be as good as they are and my hats off to them for their talent and work ethic. I wish them good health and much success at the college level in the near future. I just strongly disagree with private schools pillaging public school talent and then feeling proud of their accomplishments. Rant over (lets see the comments)

 

[Missouri Kid]

Saw the state rankings for HS players came out. Incarnate has the number 1 senior, number 1 junior, and number 3 sophomore in their respective classes. I'm sure the girls on the team didn't decide to go to Incarnate after growing up playing in the head coaches basketball academy and then transfer from their public middle school to the private school. I know MSHSAA will say this is legal and just make your players better (unless you in the STL area because if you make your players better you will probably be playing against them after they transfer).

Private schools that recruit HS kids are like playing college teams with HS teams. Most public schools have to build their program and develop their players from the youth level through High School level. Privates go out and pick the best kids and say here is an academic scholarship and come attend our school. All in all its a shallow way to win...but thats just my opinion.

This message isn't to take anything away from the girls on the teams. I am sure they have worked their A$$es off to be as good as they are and my hats off to them for their talent and work ethic. I wish them good health and much success at the college level in the near future. I just strongly disagree with private schools pillaging public school talent and then feeling proud of their accomplishments. Rant over (lets see the comments)

That's a rant? I thought you were just stating facts very accurately.

 

[AC100]

That's a rant? I thought you were just stating facts very accurately.

Yep. I will never forget the girls from Carl Junction playing IWA in the state title game. It was basically the girls from 1 small town against the St Louis area All Star team.

 

[TakeNoPlaysOff]

Same conversation, different year.

 

[WCS Coach]

Who is to say it is the "public schools' talent"?

I think parents should be free to send their child to the school of their choice. Doesn't matter if it is for academic or athletic reasons.

Government sponsored institutions have the full financial backing of state and federal tax dollars, so I'm not crying a lot because a private school does it better on private dollars.

 

[AAUbingo]

That is fine WCS but compete nationally and not in a state tourney.
More money equals more opportunities. You understand that right?

 

[rebelman54]

The analogy I like is this. What if the NCAA said were going to change the rules for college basketball. Gonzaga you can only have players that live in Washington state attend your school and play basketball for you. Memphis you can only have players from Tennessee, etc. Duke, you can get players from anywhere in the nation and UNC you can get players from anywhere in the world, if they have enough money to attend there or you can give them a scholarship if they don't.
Would anyone in the world be telling Gonzaga and Memphis, you just have to play harder and work harder? To be the best you have to beat the best? Or my favorite "life's not fair"?

I know that some will say public schools recruit to, and to that, I'd say they are wrong also and it doesn't make it right. But to try to insinuate that the majority of public schools do the same things private schools do is ludicrous at best.

 

[alltlk4]

Public Schools do recruit However if you go out of district I know around here (Northwest Missouri) if you go out of district you have to pay tuition because your tax dollars are not going to that district. There are no "Scholarships" in the public schools. So some parents may go I can send my kid to whatever public school I want and pay or go Private and have it paid for. Sounds like an easy choice if that private school is getting the talent. Just a thought

 

[WCS Coach]

That is fine WCS but compete nationally and not in a state tourney.
More money equals more opportunities. You understand that right?

No, I don't understand why hundreds of state sponsored schools can't compete. When I go into government paid for facilities these days, I see a lot of tax dollars in new gyms, football, baseball fields, track, weight rooms, etc.

Maybe the answer is true school choice where all parents can decide for a change instead of a few.

 

[Ftballfan16]

Public Schools do recruit However if you go out of district I know around here (Northwest Missouri) if you go out of district you have to pay tuition because your tax dollars are not going to that district. There are no "Scholarships" in the public schools. So some parents may go I can send my kid to whatever public school I want and pay or go Private and have it paid for. Sounds like an easy choice if that private school is getting the talent. Just a thought

How does a public school recruit? I know parents of players might recruit kids at AAU events and stuff. I will use the Humble girl from Sparta as an example. I am sure Strafford parents and players may of tried to talk her in to playing there. You think the Strafford coach or a school official sat down with her and her parents and convinced her to go to school their?

 

[alltlk4]

So you think a public school coach has never come up to a kid and say man I would love to have you at our school. Maybe came to a local youth tournament to watch them. Came up to her after a game and said that was a hell of a game, you would look good doing that in blue. That is certainly recruiting. You can't call sitting down in a formal meeting with the principal and coach the only way recruiting is done. Its done through back channels and through parents and player. You say parents and players may be recruiting. You are darn right they do and you think that the coach might be talking to them and asking them to talk to a person. That is also recruiting. Stop saying public schools don't recruit because they do. I had a coach from the Kansas side tell me, you know tuition over here is only 2K a year. That is just one example. It happens, get your head out of the sand.

 

[MoSooner69]

The "everyone does it" excuse is for those to try to justify of feel better about their own cheating or those that they support. Right or wrong there is a huge advantage for Private schools the way the rules are currently set up. People that can't see that are beyond help.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

So you think a public school coach has never come up to a kid and say man I would love to have you at our school. Maybe came to a local youth tournament to watch them. Came up to her after a game and said that was a hell of a game, you would look good doing that in blue. That is certainly recruiting. You can't call sitting down in a formal meeting with the principal and coach the only way recruiting is done. Its done through back channels and through parents and player. You say parents and players may be recruiting. You are darn right they do and you think that the coach might be talking to them and asking them to talk to a person. That is also recruiting. Stop saying public schools don't recruit because they do. I had a coach from the Kansas side tell me, you know tuition over here is only 2K a year. That is just one example. It happens, get your head out of the sand.

sounds like particular public coaches cheat.

it's legal in private schools.

That's the entire difference.



/thread

 

[basket_ball]

I think everyone knows a few public schools it happens at. In my opinion, the reason it happens way more often in private schools is there are no rules, the players can just go and know they will be eligible to play. In public schools, if you are not willing to move it is hard to get done. Most players are not willing to take the chance of being ruled ineligible. The question of whether or not they will get to play stops lots of transfers in the public schools. The dominant private schools have a huge advantage over public schools. Is it fair? Probably not. Is it going to change? Doubt it.

 

[ball_fan3215]

Who is to say it is the "public schools' talent"?

I think parents should be free to send their child to the school of their choice. Doesn't matter if it is for academic or athletic reasons.

Government sponsored institutions have the full financial backing of state and federal tax dollars, so I'm not crying a lot because a private school does it better on private dollars.

I'm not sure you understand how education is funded in the sate of Missouri.

The bulk of public school funding comes from property taxes within the district, with a smaller chunk from the state, and an even smaller chunk from the fed. Private schools are funded primarily from tuition and donations, but they also receive money from the state.

 

[rebelman54]

Telling someone after a game, great game you'd look good at X high school, isn't the same as "Come to Private School Y, you don't have to move, don't have to pay a dime". That's the equivalent of yeah I was driving 100 in a 60, but that guy was doing 65.
If a family is willing to move, or pay tuition before the student's freshman year, then okay.

I know the anecdotal response, what about so and so getting a job in the district just so their kid can play, yep that's wrong also, but doesn't happen near as often as others would say it does.

 

[ball_fan3215]

No, I don't understand why hundreds of state sponsored schools can't compete. When I go into government paid for facilities these days, I see a lot of tax dollars in new gyms, football, baseball fields, track, weight rooms, etc.

Maybe the answer is true school choice where all parents can decide for a change instead of a few.

You aren't quite grasping how public schools build facilities.

If a public school wants/needs a new facility they have to propose a bond issue to their tax base. If the bond passes the district's property taxes go up and the funding for the new facility is placed on the taxpayers from the district.

Some schools have applied for federal grants through FEMA, to build new facilities that are also storm shelters. I know of several smaller districts where this has occurred.

A public school can go to the state and say "I need a new facility". But, under most circumstances, they won't receive any extra money. The school then might use some of the money they receive as a part of the formula, but this is uncommon because most public schools in the state are struggling as is.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

You aren't quite grasping how public schools build facilities.

If a public school wants/needs a new facility they have to propose a bond issue to their tax base. If the bond passes the district's property taxes go up and the funding for the new facility is placed on the taxpayers from the district.

Some schools have applied for federal grants through FEMA, to build new facilities that are also storm shelters. I know of several smaller districts where this has occurred.

A public school can go to the state and say "I need a new facility". But, under most circumstances, they won't receive any extra money. The school then might use some of the money they receive as a part of the formula, but this is uncommon because most public schools in the state are struggling as is.

Stop injecting reason and facts into his delusions.

 

[ball_fan3215]

The point isn't about politics, its about integrity.

When teams in any sport at any level are permitted to do things that other institutions cant, that brings the intergrity of the system as a whole into question.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

The point isn't about politics, its about integrity.

When teams in any sport at any level are permitted to do things that other institutions cant, that brings the intergrity of the system as a whole into question.

I didn't mention politics. He's a private school coach that doesn't understand how public schools are financed .

We agree. What private schools do openly is consider illegal for public schools.

basically private schools have legalized cheating and that's been an issue for a long time.

 

[alltlk4]

My only point was write or wrong or to what level it happens or if it happens in some places and not others. Don't say public schools don't recruit. They do. Maybe not all but I am saying it happens. I will agree if it is allowed by private schools then it should be allowed by public. If you want to play by separate rules play in a different division that evens the playing field for everyone competing at that level. Or go beat them, it can be done. I doubt it ever changes

 

[O_ducks]

Put all private schools in their own districts, and all on the same side of the state bracket. Not sure how the logistics would work with the limited number of private schools. We already have 2 team districts now, so surely something could be figured out.

If you get beat in the final 4 you can still hang your hat pretty high, enjoy the everything that comes with making the final four, and still get a chance to play the best private schools in the state.

However, teams like Blair Oaks, Fatima, or countless other forgotten teams over the years that had arguably all time great teams and lose to a private school in districts. That's much bigger issue IMO

 

[freezeoption]

There are more public schools than private schools. There was a vote I believe in 96 that could have split it public and private. Didn't do it. Look at St Plus now and soon St Michaels. Big schools don't care as much cause they got bodies. Smaller schools it is big deal.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

Yep. I will never forget the girls from Carl Junction playing IWA in the state title game. It was basically the girls from 1 small town against the St Louis area All Star team.

Not just St. Louis area though

 

[oldgold2001]

One thing I always think about with this issue is what if the rules were the same for every school. For instance what if it was open enrollment across the whole state. Would the private schools still be as good. Now the public schools with nicer facilities would have a big advantage and some of those coaches who do recruit to private schools might be at public schools. Sure some of the private schools would still be good but their recruiting competition would be every school. Maybe instead of IWA they all go to Ladue or Clayton.

I am not advocating for this I just think it exposes how it benefits the private schools.

 

[MoSooner69]

The Open Enrollment Bill that they are working on has a provision in it trying to discourage using it for athletic reasons. If you go to a district other than the one you reside in you will not be allowed to play Varsity Sports for 365 days. Not perfect, but helpful.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

The Open Enrollment Bill that they are working on has a provision in it trying to discourage using it for athletic reasons. If you go to a district other than the one you reside in you will not be allowed to play Varsity Sports for 365 days. Not perfect, but helpful.

Doesn't part of it say you had to have owned land in the district you're transferring to for 3 years or something like that? Also had a minimum tax paid in the new district as well IIRC.

This won't put public schools on even footing.

 

[MoSooner69]

not sure there is a way to put them on even footing. Privates have that advantage, what gets me is when their fans they to act like they dont.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

not sure there is a way to put them on even footing. Privates have that advantage, what gets me is when their fans they to act like they dont.

There isn't. If I'm coaching at public school_04 I can't have a kid that played on my best players AAU team come on down when my post graduates.

Private schools? Open arms.

 

[jlar2015]

I agree that it happens, but for it to work the family has to completely move and change residence and live in the district boundaries.

 

[freezeoption]

If you want to change things then take it to MSHSAA. They are supposed to be working for us. Get other schools to back you. I remember in 1996 or 97 there was a vote on splitting public and privates in football. The big schools were against it. Maybe they've changed their minds.