She is NOT my type, CLOWN!! Just look at my likey history. Having said that, Veer's post is quality!
Drama in Willow Springs
- Thread starter 7M4
- Start date
I think your opinion is worth as much as mine.
I was just pointing out it seemed you formed your opinion based on a faulty premiss. That an accurate analysis of the Former HC of WS was not possible do to the talent pool and youth he was dealt.
I think willows coach was dealt a raw hand. But I think the fact that they were down by 50 at half most weeks(which is something that has never happened at Willow) was why he wasn’t renewed. They weren’t competitive.
Same with Cabool those two years, in 2016 they were at least competitive, in 2017 they weren’t, but they also weren’t down 7 TDs at half that season either. But, after those 2 years, their coach wasn’t renewed either. That’s just how it goes.
If Cabool doesn’t bring in the right guy to take over(should go with an outside hire imo) they’re going to be at risk of being where Willow is now in 4-5 years.
I get fired up about this because Willow isn’t what they were when Ary was there. And honestly, they might never be. It’s hard to say.
hmmmm. While that is a significant improvement over the first gal, I am still unsure if I should likey or not. For now, I will abstain courteously
I was under the impression that their incoming freshman class was supposed to be pretty good. But then again, I’ve heard that before in the past.
Cabool doesn't have anything in the pipeline is the word, that is why the Spitz was smart and vacated town. He ain't no dumbing on that account the talent has ran out. I'm just going on a couple of things, that they lost to Salem, MV, Ava and those squads are not good 8th grade teams, and then what I've heard about their upcoming talent from people from Dog land hard core's as well, now of course maybe some people think they will be OK in the C1 districts as opposed to the SCA?
In fact one Die Hard Dog fan made the comment that this was Cabool's last chance to beat Grove in the Next 10 years and they was gonna be the Next WS so the 7-6 close loss was hard to take.
I know Cabool JV is not very good at all. I've saw them play...and watched film on them.
We agree that Tpayne got a raw deal, but my biggest concern is that WS as a program could implode now. From everything I have been told the players liked him and had bought in. Again he might not be a good OC or a HC. But dang let the guy have a chance if the Kids are playing hard that is half the battle in winning: and building a program.
Cabool is on the cusp as well of falling off the edge if they do not hire the right guy. And IMO Cabool isn’t gonna get a lot of looks because of the talent and the push to become a Bball school. What football guy wants to deal with that?
And I will say this that neither Tpayne or O’Connor in 16:17 had much to work with in their 2 years. Talent sucked for both!
I know O’Connor is back on the Dog staff and while I think in his last stint he wasn’t up to the task and made obvious mistakes and missteps. It is possible he has gotten wiser and might be Cabools best option. But again why would he want to take on the Herculean task of trying to win without subpar talent and really being back in the exact same spot he was before in his first stint at Cabool … a no win scenario.
Unless WS has stacked classes of stud bought in talent who plays then nope WS won’t reach Ary Levels. Let’s not forget that Ary without talent at WS/Grove/WP and now Mtn Home has had some baadd seasons.
Ary is Great but he wins when he has talent just like every other coach, he just wins a bit more.
Willow has the Rodgers kid and the soph James kid that would have started QB and RB this year if they would have played football.
Out of the 6-7 guys that are their rotation on the basketball team only 2 played football and 1 of them had a season ending injury early on.
Back in Arys days, most of the athletes came out. Not all, but most.
Steven Gum went on to a good basketball career at Drury and he was a Willow QB during the fall season.
You just don’t see that. The only coach since Ary who has been able to get out most of the athletes was Perkins. And I think he did a heck of a job getting 5 & 6 wins there some of those years. If I remember right, they had a season like Cabool did this year where they were SO close to 8 wins but lost a couple close ones.
I think the focus on basketball isn’t going to change at Willow but hopefully all the underclassmen come back out next year for Willow. It’ll be interesting to see how the hiring process goes. There’s not a whole lot on staff there. Johnson i believe is still involved with rhe FB program, but I doubt he wants it.
Former 4-year starter Cabool QB is on staff there as well but idk if they’d offer it to him or if he’d want it.
As far as Cabool goes, I don’t think they’d offer it to O’Connor and even if they did, I’d be shocked if he took it. Idk if anyone else on staff would want it either.
When he was there before, Cabool had Kenton Coontz(who was a stud) but he was injured from his freshman year and on(surgeries, knee problems/shoulder) so he didn’t get to contribute much and he was probably their best player those two years (or would have been).
Manning picked up the slack and did a heck of a job for them in 16 but after he graduated, they didn’t have any skill players to speak of the next year. A decent line, but no one to run behind them.
And from what you’re telling me, it looks like Cabool is going to have maybe even less to work with than they did then.
I wouldn’t* be surprised to see the current staff stay, but I don’t think any of them want the Head Coach position.
Out of the 6-7 guys that are their rotation on the basketball team only 2 played football and 1 of them had a season ending injury early on.
Back in Arys days, most of the athletes came out. Not all, but most.
Steven Gum went on to a good basketball career at Drury and he was a Willow QB during the fall season.
You just don’t see that. The only coach since Ary who has been able to get out most of the athletes was Perkins. And I think he did a heck of a job getting 5 & 6 wins there some of those years. If I remember right, they had a season like Cabool did this year where they were SO close to 8 wins but lost a couple close ones.
I think the focus on basketball isn’t going to change at Willow but hopefully all the underclassmen come back out next year for Willow. It’ll be interesting to see how the hiring process goes. There’s not a whole lot on staff there. Johnson i believe is still involved with rhe FB program, but I doubt he wants it.
Former 4-year starter Cabool QB is on staff there as well but idk if they’d offer it to him or if he’d want it.
As far as Cabool goes, I don’t think they’d offer it to O’Connor and even if they did, I’d be shocked if he took it. Idk if anyone else on staff would want it either.
When he was there before, Cabool had Kenton Coontz(who was a stud) but he was injured from his freshman year and on(surgeries, knee problems/shoulder) so he didn’t get to contribute much and he was probably their best player those two years (or would have been).
Manning picked up the slack and did a heck of a job for them in 16 but after he graduated, they didn’t have any skill players to speak of the next year. A decent line, but no one to run behind them.
And from what you’re telling me, it looks like Cabool is going to have maybe even less to work with than they did then.
I wouldn’t* be surprised to see the current staff stay, but I don’t think any of them want the Head Coach position.
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Ary is my definition of a good coach:
He wins the games he should win/doesn't lose any game he shouldn't lose; occasionally wins a game he shouldn't win; and his team always competes hard even when over matched.
Perkins got ran out …sort of Like Tpayne because they felt Like he underperformed.
If nobody on staff at Cabool is interested then it’s gonna be dicey getting a HC of quality.
As you said at WS the AD son and the Principle son don’t play on the Gridiron. But if they had it would have helped but in truth their record would not of changed. So I guess they made the choice to not play.
Do you think it’s any worse than others? I mean Springfield is a den of villainy and scum…at the upper levels. A few exceptions of course but they are smart and keep their heads down and mouths silent.
Since we brought up Cabool, I think had they been able to leave the SCA you might have convinced Spit to stay around. And he's probably the best candidate you could hope to land at Cabool atm. MGHS I would be interested to hear your opinion on Cabool's proposal to leave the SCA that the board shot down. I find it interesting that on one hand you would advise coaches to avoid a place like Cabool, but I have a suspicion that you would find them leaving the SCA "cowardly," despite the fact it's a conference they really aren't suited for regardless of the fact they've always been in it.
IMO, Cabool leaving the SCA is in the same vein as a coach avoiding a school bc he theoretically can't win there. Would be contradictory to call leaving the conference cowardly only to then say avoiding difficult jobs is smart.
I have no additional thoughts on Willow, other than they do this about every 3-4 years. Every other SCA school has had big up-cycles in terms of success since Ary left Willow, other than Willow. The problem is the admin, but that ain't gonna change. And for a "basketball" school I'm curious where all that success on the hardwood is, cause it's not been there in my lifetime.
IMO, Cabool leaving the SCA is in the same vein as a coach avoiding a school bc he theoretically can't win there. Would be contradictory to call leaving the conference cowardly only to then say avoiding difficult jobs is smart.
I have no additional thoughts on Willow, other than they do this about every 3-4 years. Every other SCA school has had big up-cycles in terms of success since Ary left Willow, other than Willow. The problem is the admin, but that ain't gonna change. And for a "basketball" school I'm curious where all that success on the hardwood is, cause it's not been there in my lifetime.
Willow has had success on the hardwood. Just not as often as you think a “basketball school” would.
Now if by success you mean “state championships”, I would counter that by saying if that’s what you count as success, then there aren’t any successful SCA programs in football. 🤷🏽♂️
Willow made the State Quarters in 2007 in basketball, lost on a literal last second layup on a shot gun pass down court, cost them their trip to the Final 4 that year.
Willow made the State Quarters in 2022, but lost to juggernaught, loaded Father Tolton.
Those are the only good seasons in the last 20 years though. That I can remember.
But I do agree with you and I’ve said it before, if willows going to be a basketball school, they need to make a playoff run more often than every 10-15 years.
Granted, back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, now those were some good basketball decades for Willow. But not so much nowadays.
Now if by success you mean “state championships”, I would counter that by saying if that’s what you count as success, then there aren’t any successful SCA programs in football. 🤷🏽♂️
Willow made the State Quarters in 2007 in basketball, lost on a literal last second layup on a shot gun pass down court, cost them their trip to the Final 4 that year.
Willow made the State Quarters in 2022, but lost to juggernaught, loaded Father Tolton.
Those are the only good seasons in the last 20 years though. That I can remember.
But I do agree with you and I’ve said it before, if willows going to be a basketball school, they need to make a playoff run more often than every 10-15 years.
Granted, back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, now those were some good basketball decades for Willow. But not so much nowadays.
To your point the only people calling Willow a basketball school are from Willow. Would be good to look in a mirror a bit.
Oh I’m right there with ya. Trust me, I get it. And I’ve been saying it for years.
They had more playoff runs in basketball than they have in football since 2007, but just barely. 🤣
There aren't.
Some schools have had good runs for sure. But there aren't any schools in the conference that have a lasting legacy on the gridiron that will be remembered by all corners of the state.
A bit to that point though, even the most successful "football" schools in the SCA; Ava, Liberty, Grove, have been much better than Willow on the hardwood.
EDIT: "Much better" might be too strong, I'm letting my bias shine through toooo hard haha.
Main thing is that basketball is the priority. Period. That’s the mentality at Willow, from the administration, to the coaches, to the student athletes. When it comes to boys sports, basketball does not take a back seat to anything.
Or that’s how it’s been at least in years past.
Maybe with the recent actions, they’re trying to change that.
Or that’s how it’s been at least in years past.
Maybe with the recent actions, they’re trying to change that.
I don't think that is really true. Willow is seen as a basketball school in other places I have been around. It is not just about successful seasons, but more on what that school puts their focus on.
The problem is a group in the community since the glory days of Ava have mistakenly thought they are a football school and that is just never going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes.
Also on the whole, the entire SCA needs to look in the mirror. The SCA is an average at best football conference. Pretty much every other conference has at least more than one football title in their history. We like to crow about how it's hard-hitting football that can whip up on other conferences (mainly just the old Mid Lakes is who always got the brunt of that chatter.) But then when it's playoff time every SCA school is good enough but "just happened to run into a buzzsaw..." yeah right.
Salem was great but just ran into that Platte County buzzsaw, Thayer was an all timer but Orrick was just legendary, Liberty has it all but can't get over the Lamar hump, Ava had to play private super team, all hogwash at the end of the day.
Salem was great but just ran into that Platte County buzzsaw, Thayer was an all timer but Orrick was just legendary, Liberty has it all but can't get over the Lamar hump, Ava had to play private super team, all hogwash at the end of the day.
You think folks up in the KCI or over in the Big 8 think Willow is a basketball school? I think those folks know they exist but that's about it. But I see what you're saying, it's more the people in Willow thinking this, but I'm saying that they really aren't who get to determine that. Are we all still calling Salem a football school?
If we using people up in KCI or the Big 8 then no school in the SCA is going to be seen as anything really because no one knows or cares about them. I was speaking more in terms of how schools are viewed around this area. Now if you are talking based on an entire state view that changes and there are very few schools that are recognized.
I would say Salem is still a "football" school from the stand point of that is what their focus is on, but that title is probably about over if they do not at least become competitive for a stretch.
True, but now I've got myself wound up about Willow so I need to get my hot takes off.
Thayer: football/basketball school
Ava: football school
Liberty: football school
Willow: basketball school
Cabool: ?
Houston: ?
Grove: football school (not saying they’re not good at other sports but their focus is definitely football, don’t even argue it)
Salem: football?
Ava: football school
Liberty: football school
Willow: basketball school
Cabool: ?
Houston: ?
Grove: football school (not saying they’re not good at other sports but their focus is definitely football, don’t even argue it)
Salem: football?
Kinda sad, but Houston and Cabool are seen as the bottom feeders of the conference in just about everything. They will occasionally have a good season or two in a particular sport, but it never seems to last. Willow and Salem are headed towards that distinction if they are not careful.
The impressive thing in the SCA is how Thayer has been able to maintain success in both football and basketball for so many years. Is there another small school in the state that can say the same? They have not had a down cycle that I can recall in the last 20-30 years. Quite impressive
The impressive thing in the SCA is how Thayer has been able to maintain success in both football and basketball for so many years. Is there another small school in the state that can say the same? They have not had a down cycle that I can recall in the last 20-30 years. Quite impressive
to be fair its not like the comp is that good and i say that will all due respect.
We hear about the SCA this and that but honestly I'm not seeing it and haven't for a long time.
What comp are you referring to?
The SCA is definitely not very good as a whole in just about everything. I don't think anyone would argue against that.
i was replying to thayer having 'success' over a long period.
Does it matter when you play jabronis every week?
I dont think you can say Thayer has been great because of jabronis. Look at there last few years in basketball. They have been deep in the playoffs just about every year. They have been deep in the playoffs in football several times. It is not like they are winning the SCA and then getting knocked out of the playoffs early every year.
Definitely has helped. Along with the Alton, Kosh, Couch, effect. They have done a great job of getting kids from all of these areas that look good in green.
