Which Missouri HS Playoff format do you prefer?
- Thread starter blue and white pride
- Start date
Not really, you pointed to those two states, and I get the point you were trying to make, but the reality is, from a population standpoint there is bound to be more talent in Texas or Florida. Tack on the fact that those kids are constantly in that heat and are...say it with me....acclimated to it, coupled with the fact that they start their seasons later in the year than Missouri does and it really just reenforces that Missouri does things backwards.
As a general rule I like the current system even though the first round can be ugly and I have always thought there was merit in having to 'make' the playoffs. But the 'everybody in' model gives late blooming teams a chance and something to work for. Neosho is a good example this year. Even if they lose to Carthage tomorrow (which is not a given), the "upset" they got over Republic meant a lot to that team.
I like the setup in class 5 with odd numbers that gives the lower seeds basically a play-in round. It allows the lowest teams to play each other and whoever is the strongest then gets a shot at a top seed. Rather than the worst getting mauled by the best. It might at least get rid of the games where players are deliberately stepping out of bounds so that everyone can get in on the scoring.
I like the setup in class 5 with odd numbers that gives the lower seeds basically a play-in round. It allows the lowest teams to play each other and whoever is the strongest then gets a shot at a top seed. Rather than the worst getting mauled by the best. It might at least get rid of the games where players are deliberately stepping out of bounds so that everyone can get in on the scoring.
I very likely could be mistaken. I probably looked at the wrong part of the bracket.
I would prefer the district games be part of the regular season with the winners ONLY going into the state playoffs. But that's just the opinion of an old, grouchy sports writer in central Mercer County. I could be wrong (have had practice).
Con - ending the tradition of conferences, conference championships and all-conference player honors that go back 70 years or more
Pro? - opportunity to play different teams every year or two instead of the same seven every year
A major con of doing away with conferences would be the loss of traditional rivals. Lots of schools (not Harrisonville) have been members of the same conferences for decades. People in those towns would not want to lose their conference affiliations. And the other major con would be travel. Some schools in some areas would have to travel a ton if their games were determined by school class size as opposed to conference or area rivals. Southeast class 1 comes to mind as does class 5 in central Missouri. I don't know how St. Louis and Kansas City match up in Class 6 but envision if there are 17 big schools in St. Louis and 15 in Kansas City. There would be some big travel budgets for the St. Louis school that was put in a KC district.
It seems like honestly there are just 5-6 schools in each classification that win the state championships year in and year out.
For the other 58 schools in a class, winning their conference championship can be a real big deal.
I'll take things that will never happen for $1,000 Alex.
Conferences is one of the reasons I would prefer the Illinois system. One change I would make is divide into classes as Missouri does now before the season. Illinois does it after the season and playoff teams are set. I say use their points system, and divide the classes like this: class 6 - 48, class 5 - 48, class 4 - 64, class 3 - 64, class 2 - 51, class 1 - 50 (325 schools in 2017). 24 schools make the playoffs in class 1,2,5 and 6. 32 in class 3 and 4. All conference champions get automatic bid, all other playoff bids and seeding is done by the point system. I'd go back to a 10 game season as well.
With the shifting and disbanding of conference's every 10 years or so do they really matter that much? All-District would mean as much as All-Conference. Times always have and always will continue to change, but HS football is like any other well established institution, slow to change when things might be archaic.
Travel for the out-state schools in districts makes it a non-starter to make it district only play in regular season.
Look at Lamar's district in Class 2. Or look at Warrensburg's district in Class 4. Or look at Thayer and Cabool's in Class 1. It's a different animal to schedule for the post season tournament but having a full schedule in lot of the districts makes no sense what so ever.
Look at Lamar's district in Class 2. Or look at Warrensburg's district in Class 4. Or look at Thayer and Cabool's in Class 1. It's a different animal to schedule for the post season tournament but having a full schedule in lot of the districts makes no sense what so ever.
I think we covered this enough, the best system was the 4 team district where the top team went on. People didn't like that. The next system people complained about that. We got a decent system now, you want to get rid of games then go back to the 4 team and only top moves on. I am for certain that if they make the last game for 7 and 8 not mean feces those teams wont play. Then the state can look dumb.
I like the current system, but would make one change. There are 325 11-man teams. I would max out the districts at 6 with 7 teams only where they need to balance out the classes. That would make 8 * 6 = 48 per class. 325/48 = 6.77 so increase to 7 classes with 46 to 47 teams in each class. This would make most of the district 6 teams with a few 5 teams.
This way the #1 and #2 seeds would get byes and #3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5. This would make those games potentially more competitive.
This way the #1 and #2 seeds would get byes and #3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5. This would make those games potentially more competitive.
Personally I like conferences. In my area it makes a ton of sense for C4 WC/CJ, C5 Carthage/Neosho and C6 Joplin to be on each others schedules every year. Toss in the rest of the COC and aside from maybe Pittsburg KS, you really couldn't round out a much better football schedule. I really like the COC. Plus, next year we get to trade a track meet with Central for a legit game with nearby Joplin. Two big thumbs up for that.
I would hate for Carthage to end games with Webb City, Joplin, and CJ (15 minute drives) for games in Belton, Sedalia, Lebanon or Springfield. Not only are road games a longer drive than today, but the home games would lack the crowd a nearby team would bring.
It is kind of fun playing teams you've never seen before. But I also enjoy playing teams across multiple years and seeing who gets better, who gets worse, getting familiar with some of the names, and overall learning how different teams operate besides just my own. Having some background and history going into a game adds something for me.
Playing within classification might make sense in some parts of the state but in Jasper county I don't think it does. I do agree though that a conference title doesn't really carry much significance. But for me, being in the COC ensures a really great football schedule so in that aspect I like it.
Going into week 3 of the playoffs its interesting that only about half of the #1 and #2 seeds will be battling each each other. Lots of lower seeds are still in it. They wouldn't have been with previous playoff formats.
This would be nice but it's not that easy. To do this and be fair each district team would have to play the last seven games to,determine the top 4.
WC could still play Joplin, Carthage, and Neosho the first three games and then their seven district games.
This may have already been said but I didn't want to take the time to read all of the comments. Current point system, 8 team district, top 2 have first rd byes week 10, bottom 2 play each other week 10 and are eliminated from playoffs, 3v6, 4v5
Winless Ruskin would think differently about that. Better knocking off a 1 seed and losing in the second round. Than a consolation game.
#1 seeds defeated:
8-man
#1 Mound City lost to #4 St. Joseph Christian 42-30
Class 1
None
Class 2
#1 Macon lost to #4 Clark County 28-18
#1 University Academy Charter lost to #4 Knob Noster 21-20
Class 3
#1 St. James lost to #4 Owensville 35-34
#1 Senaca lost to #5 Mt. Vernon 37-8
#1 Hogan Prep Academy Charter lost to #4 Pleasant Hill 36-18
Class 4
#1 Warrenton lost to #4 Helias Catholic 56-42
#1 Kearney lost to #4 Lafayette (St. Joseph) 38-34
Class 5
#1 Glendale lost to #4 Ozark 55-34
#1 Smith-Cotton lost to #4 Belton 61-50
Class 6
#1 Rock Bridge lost to #5 Blue Springs South 16-13 (OT)
#1 Lee's Summit West lost to #4 Rockhurt 20-17
8-man
#1 Mound City lost to #4 St. Joseph Christian 42-30
Class 1
None
Class 2
#1 Macon lost to #4 Clark County 28-18
#1 University Academy Charter lost to #4 Knob Noster 21-20
Class 3
#1 St. James lost to #4 Owensville 35-34
#1 Senaca lost to #5 Mt. Vernon 37-8
#1 Hogan Prep Academy Charter lost to #4 Pleasant Hill 36-18
Class 4
#1 Warrenton lost to #4 Helias Catholic 56-42
#1 Kearney lost to #4 Lafayette (St. Joseph) 38-34
Class 5
#1 Glendale lost to #4 Ozark 55-34
#1 Smith-Cotton lost to #4 Belton 61-50
Class 6
#1 Rock Bridge lost to #5 Blue Springs South 16-13 (OT)
#1 Lee's Summit West lost to #4 Rockhurt 20-17
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Rock Bridge, a #1 seed, has losses to the District 3 #5 team and the District 4 #6 team. And some people want the 5-8 seeds to sit out.
I think that was the biggest upset. BSS was 3-6 in the regular season. Now they are playing for the district championship. I think these types of results add to the fun of the current format.
The other big surprise was in 8-man. St. Joseph Christian finished season at 3-5. Mound City finished 8-1 with only loss coming to unbeaten Rock Port 40-38.
Would like to add (as I have several times already) Macon was more deserving of the #4 seed than the #1 seed in that district. By any measure except the actual bracket Palmyra is the top team. Having said that, next week is going to be a war.
Yes. That one was one of the least surprising of the results. But the great thing about the format is that the seeding only determines matchups and home field. A higher seeding does not guarantee you a win. You still have to go out there and beat the team in front of you. Even if Macon would have won the game, I think Palmyra would have beat them by 20+ points next week (even in Macon).
One issue with a system where only the top 4 or 6 go to the playoffs from each district is that the current seeding system is very flawed. Does anyone really think Rock Bridge is better than Blue Springs?
Can you imagine the complaints if a team like Joplin (who was 8-1 in the regular season) was put at #7 (only ahead of Kickapoo, a team they beat by 1 point) in their district and they didn't make the playoffs? That's probably where they belong.
Can you imagine the complaints if a team like Joplin (who was 8-1 in the regular season) was put at #7 (only ahead of Kickapoo, a team they beat by 1 point) in their district and they didn't make the playoffs? That's probably where they belong.
It's because the math that MSHSAA uses is flawed.
Quote from an article on Bob Bryant who came up with the original mathematical formula used in the playoff system. Which is the system (with a few tweaks) they use to seed district playoff teams now.
"The more Bryant crunched the numbers, the more he realized those numbers didn’t always add up. On more than one occasion using the old points system, undefeated teams would be squeezed out of a playoff spot.
“It was not real reliable,” Bryant said. “It didn’t get the best teams in the playoffs. The team with the highest rank was not the best team necessarily.”
Quote from an article on Bob Bryant who came up with the original mathematical formula used in the playoff system. Which is the system (with a few tweaks) they use to seed district playoff teams now.
"The more Bryant crunched the numbers, the more he realized those numbers didn’t always add up. On more than one occasion using the old points system, undefeated teams would be squeezed out of a playoff spot.
“It was not real reliable,” Bryant said. “It didn’t get the best teams in the playoffs. The team with the highest rank was not the best team necessarily.”
This kind of claptrap is often written by people who have no earthly clue what they are talking about.
Here’s the deal, Florida has roughly four times the population as Missouri. But a large number of people who are residents are older and live there part time. There are more people who own a second residence in Florida than the rest of the country combined. Many, but not all, of those people count towards the state’s population.
For example, in 2015, Florida had 2.7 million high school students while Missouri had roughly one million. So, Florida has four times the population as Missouri, but it only has 2.7 times as many students as Missouri.
That’s because, like I said earlier, Florida has the oldest population in the country and a large number of transient residents who would be unlikely to be enrolled in school. A much smaller percentage of its population is high school aged. Hello?
Still, lets just go by the pure numbers. There are 20 million people in Fla. and there are six million in Missouri. There are 700 players in Florida’s 2018 class that currently hold an Division I FCS offer. About 40 of those are kids from out of state attending IMG or another similar academy.
Missouri ranks 32nd in D1 players produced in relation to its population. The state has six million residents and 24 players who currently hold a Division I offer. Florida has nearly 30 times as many kids who hold an offer as Missouri, but 4 times its population.
As I’ve posted here before, Ft. Lauderdale, a city with an insanely high number of part time residents among its 180K population, has more kids with an offer in the 2018 class as the entire state of Missouri despite having fewer high school students than Springfield and Columbia.
The key factors here are A) Football Culture B) Spring Football C) WEATHER!!
Look at the other states at the top of this list (http://www.rankbyoffers.com/statefbranking/): Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi (actually all rank ahead of Texas in the number of Division I football players they produce per their population). It’s just reality. In those state’s kids are outside all winter and all fall and all spring.
I spend significant time in south Florida, and there is a joke in Miami that you can drive by any football stadium any time of day any time of year and there will be people on it working out. My friends and I literally look at the HS football field off the interstate on the way to Biscayne Bay every time we’re down there as you drive by after leaving the airport and there will be people on the field working out at 1 a.m. in February. I’m not making that up. In the 10 years I have been traveling there, we have never driven by that field and not seen someone working out. Of course, we’ve never driven by during a hurricane or crazy weather, but the point still stands.
Part of that is the amount of space available per the population, there are far, far fewer fields per person so people take the space when they can get it ... But a big part of it is the weather. I used to drive by my HS field in Missouri every day on my way home from work at 1 a.m. and I never saw anyone working out in February. And I would say my former HS is more dedicated than most.
The level of play and the amount of talent being produced has nothing to do with population. People are a product of their environment. A lot of kids in those southern states see football as a way out and have a unique kind of desperation that you can't relate to until you're around it and experience it, and kids are outside year round.
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It's one thing to use a point system to determine seeds for districts when everyone gets in and gets their shot....it's another thing to have a point system determine who the top 4 of 8 are when leaving 4 teams out. I would rather have 4 of 8 teams. I feel like getting in should be earned. I don't feel like a computer should decide when strength of schedule and opponents can be completely different.
Playing district opponents the last 7 games would allow the top 4 to advance of 8 teams. Teams can play whomever they want the first 3 games of the year. Almost opposite of the 90s model. Teams can cross bracket with another district after that. jmo
My playoff plan. Play a 10 game regular season. Schedule whoever you want in the first 3 weeks (historic rivalry games not in your classification). Week 4-10 will be District games within your classification. There will be eight/eight team districts. The top (4) teams in each District advance to the state playoffs. Only head to head District game records count towards District seeding for playoffs. The playoffs will consist of (5) rounds. Regionals, Sectionals, Quarterfinal, Semifinal, Championship. The Regional round will be cross bracketed.
Regionals
Game 1- D1 #1 vs D2 #4
Game 2- D1 #2 vs D2 #3
Game 3- D2 #1 vs D1 #4
Game 4- D2 #2 vs D1 #3
Game 5- D3 #1 vs D4 #4
Game 6- D3 #2 vs D4 #3
Game 7- D5 #1 vs D6 #4
Game 8- D5 #2 vs D6 #3
Game 9- D6 #1 vs D5 #4
Game 10- D6 #2 vs D5 #3
Game 11- D5 #1 vs D6 #4
Game 12- D5 #2 vs D6 #3
Game 13- D7 #1 vs D8 #4
Game 14- D7 #2 vs D8 #3
Game 15- D8 #1 vs D7 #4
Game 16- D8 #2 vs D7 #3
Sectionals
Game 17- Game 1 winner vs Game 2 winner
Game 18- Game 3 winner vs Game 4 winner
Game 19- Game 5 winner vs Game 6 winner
Game 20- Game 7 winner vs Game 8 winner
Game 21- Game 9 winner vs Game 10 winner
Game 22- Game 11 winner vs Game 12 winner
Game 23- Game 13 winner vs Game 14 winner
Game 24- Game 15 winner vs Game 16 winner
Quarterfinal
Game 25- Game 17 winner vs Game 18 winner
Game 26- Game 19 winner vs Game 20 winner
Game 27- Game 21 winner vs Game 22 winner
Game 28- Game 23 winner vs Game 24 winner
Semifinal
Game 29- Game 25 winner vs Game 26 winner
Game 30 Game 27 winner vs Game 28 winner
State Championship
Game 30- Game 29 winner vs Game 30 winner
Regionals
Game 1- D1 #1 vs D2 #4
Game 2- D1 #2 vs D2 #3
Game 3- D2 #1 vs D1 #4
Game 4- D2 #2 vs D1 #3
Game 5- D3 #1 vs D4 #4
Game 6- D3 #2 vs D4 #3
Game 7- D5 #1 vs D6 #4
Game 8- D5 #2 vs D6 #3
Game 9- D6 #1 vs D5 #4
Game 10- D6 #2 vs D5 #3
Game 11- D5 #1 vs D6 #4
Game 12- D5 #2 vs D6 #3
Game 13- D7 #1 vs D8 #4
Game 14- D7 #2 vs D8 #3
Game 15- D8 #1 vs D7 #4
Game 16- D8 #2 vs D7 #3
Sectionals
Game 17- Game 1 winner vs Game 2 winner
Game 18- Game 3 winner vs Game 4 winner
Game 19- Game 5 winner vs Game 6 winner
Game 20- Game 7 winner vs Game 8 winner
Game 21- Game 9 winner vs Game 10 winner
Game 22- Game 11 winner vs Game 12 winner
Game 23- Game 13 winner vs Game 14 winner
Game 24- Game 15 winner vs Game 16 winner
Quarterfinal
Game 25- Game 17 winner vs Game 18 winner
Game 26- Game 19 winner vs Game 20 winner
Game 27- Game 21 winner vs Game 22 winner
Game 28- Game 23 winner vs Game 24 winner
Semifinal
Game 29- Game 25 winner vs Game 26 winner
Game 30 Game 27 winner vs Game 28 winner
State Championship
Game 30- Game 29 winner vs Game 30 winner
Again geographically 8 team districts for regular season play makes no sense at all. Lamar doesn't need to be playing a 1/3 of its games against California, Cole Camp, Versailles and Warsaw. Warrensburg shouldn't have to play the majority of its schedule in Northeast Missouri and St. Charles. Blue Springs and Blue Springs South don't need to be making trips all the way to St. Louis for it's regular season games. And many other cases across the state. Post season it's fine to travel. Regular season not so much. No other sport requires the teams to play everyone in their districts prior to districts. Why should football be in different?
Because he probably wants Kearney out of the Smithville District 😂
