welcome to the land of private schools non-class1 fans

[Taco Tico]

Anybody who thinks that Valle limits enrollment to stay in class 1 is not thinking rationally. The school was built in the 50's to accommodate 300 kids and today the enrollment is about 130 kids before the multiplier..

Didn't get the that I was making fun the people that think that?

 

[hitch_and_go]

Here is what I recall Webb sending to major d-1 since 1989
Mark Smith (Arkansas)
Grant Wistrom (Nebraska)
Tracy Wistrom (Nebraska)
Andrew Shull (Kansas State)
Adam Speiker (Missouri)
Trystan Castillo (Missouri)
Kiente Hardin (Minnesota)
...they have sent several to lesser d-1 schools ...about 5 to Missouri State ...1 to Sam Houston St...one to Arkansas state ...2 to Southern Illonois and 1 to South Dakota State ...and probably 50 or more to d2 or naia schools ....so you're talking about one of the winningest schools in Missouri history with one of the highest participation rates (155 players this year 9-12) can't even stack up to Trinitys current roster . Seems odd

 

[FistOH]

TWO teams from SWMO had stellar dynasties and everyone else from the area wants to claim glory from Lamar and Webb City’s accomplishments. Winning 7 consecutive championships or 14 state titles hasn’t stopped the crying, bitching and hating toward Trinity, Cardinal Ritter and Lutheran North. Sure, there was plenty of butt hurt after CBC’s shredding of Joplin. Hardly a whisper about Vianney. Absolutely nothing about MICDS. It’s all fine, though. There are plenty of your neighbors that aren’t gracious in victory or in defeat. The second SWMO all but got shutout, it didn’t take long for the insults to pop up.

 

[J. Kane]

Instead of bashing the private schools you should be grateful for them. The high number of private schools is the only thing that keeps STL from having more success in football. If there were fewer privates and athletes were less distributed then you would have even more successful STL success. This is the advantage rural schools will always have. When there is no school choice you can build very dominant programs. Last year 5 of the 6 champs were public and I believe it was the same way the year before that. Public schools can hold their own and historically have dominated the private schools in football and one year where private schools have done well can not erase all of that history.

 

[J. Kane]

I would venture to say that since Webb started their insane run in 1989 ...they have had about the same number of d1 players total that Trinity has on their roster this year....just a bit of perspective. It's not random...it's no coincidence...simple laws of mathematical probilities can easily prove that.

 

[Kzar]

Does any one realize how hard it is for a kid to get into Borroughs , MICDS or Priory. It isn’t just my parents will pay. Those schools only accept maybe 20 percent of HS applicants, and sports abilities have 0 to do with it.

I know some coaching staff at both JBS and MICDS personally and "scholarships" for athletics happen every single year.

 

[Jomjam]

I know some coaching staff at both JBS and MICDS personally and "scholarships" for athletics happen every single year.

No kidding, it says, on their websites how much financial aid students have received. Go look at MICDS, they have 40 kids on their roster, none of them are there on “scholarship” for football. My point is during the admissions process, being good at football doesn’t get you an automatic entry like everyone thinks and a “full ride” Micds lost their starting DE last year to Trinity this year. I can keep doing, but the fact is teams like jbs and MICDS aren’t out there building football teams like people think they are.

 

[bullitpdq68]

I have to ask after all of these discussions what should possible be done realistically? I don't know that total separation is the answer, but not sure what the answer should be, as all private schools are not the same?

 

[Rcarlisle314]

It's true J Kane. STL has a lot of private school options which spreads the athletes out. Fewer schools would mean a larger athlete pool at schools and more success. This is the primary advantage smaller school communities will always have. Yeah, private schools have the advantage of a larger area to pull kids from, but public schools that are the only choice in town have the advantage of developing feeder systems where kids play together since elementary schools. If developed properly, this advantage can easily outweigh the private school advantage. I have seen many smaller programs beat teams with start studded recruits because the kids know the system and have been running it since 7 or 8 years old.

 

[BearsCountry]

I have to ask after all of these discussions what should possible be done realistically? I don't know that total separation is the answer, but not sure what the answer should be, as all private schools are not the same?

Unless you fix the broken down public school system in St. Louis, not much is going to change.

 

[Rcarlisle314]

What exactly is the problem? In 2017, 5/6 state champs were public. Same in 2016. Looks like 3/6 will be public this year. CBC beats the private schools here in STL pretty badly too. They are a juggernaut just like Lamar has been in class 2 and WC in class 4. By the way, Blue Springs a public school beat them at CBC a mere two years ago. CBC will have to replace Gabbert and some o line members next year. Vianney is losing it superstar player who will be hard to replace. Trinity has once in a lifetime class of players who will be graduating. Ritter loses two superstar receivers and some other talented seniors. LN has getting beaten by publics in back to back years. Where is that great private school dominance that is causing an issue? It's ok for private schools to have their moment sometimes.

 

[blkdayz]

I guess we will see. If Trinity reloads after this class graduates then I think we can assume that they are recruiting?? They do have a great Sr. class of kids. Maybe the most talent to ever be on the same field in any class. If they replace these kids with a new crop of athletes over the next couple of years then we will see the clear advantage that private has over public. If you were to draw a 30 mile circle around Webb City and you could offer any kid to go to school there tuition free. Imagine the teams they would have. Even if they just picked up a handful of players from Lamar, CJ, Carthage, Seneca, etc... I don't see how anyone can't see the advantage that private schools in metropolitan areas have.

I do agree that public schools have been able to overcome this in the past. The Lamar's and Webb's clearly have a playbook on how to overcome the inferior athletes with a 'system'. Maybe we never see another Trinity with so much talent on one team. If this is a trend that continues then at some point.........the system will not be able to keep up with the talent. Overcoming 3 or 4 'athletes' with a system is one thing, but to try and overcome 10 to 12 is completely different. Anyway you look at it..........the field is not level in regards to private schools abilities to bring in athletes.

 

[FBisLife12]

Unless you fix the broken down public school system in St. Louis, not much is going to change.

Public schools, in general, all have areas they can improve upon. Here’s a breakdown of how public schools in Missouri rank by graduation rate, test scores and college acceptance. 9 of the Top 10 are STL Area schools and 2 (including #1) are STL City schools. Public schools in rural Missouri struggle tremendously, compared to those in the STL Metro Area and the rate of poverty (as indicated by the % of students receiving meal assistance) is much higher in rural districts, too.

 

[FBisLife12]

I guess we will see. If Trinity reloads after this class graduates then I think we can assume that they are recruiting?? They do have a great Sr. class of kids. Maybe the most talent to ever be on the same field in any class. If they replace these kids with a new crop of athletes over the next couple of years then we will see the clear advantage that private has over public. If you were to draw a 30 mile circle around Webb City and you could offer any kid to go to school there tuition free. Imagine the teams they would have. Even if they just picked up a handful of players from Lamar, CJ, Carthage, Seneca, etc... I don't see how anyone can't see the advantage that private schools in metropolitan areas have.

I do agree that public schools have been able to overcome this in the past. The Lamar's and Webb's clearly have a playbook on how to overcome the inferior athletes with a 'system'. Maybe we never see another Trinity with so much talent on one team. If this is a trend that continues then at some point.........the system will not be able to keep up with the talent. Overcoming 3 or 4 'athletes' with a system is one thing, but to try and overcome 10 to 12 is completely different. Anyway you look at it..........the field is not level in regards to private schools abilities to bring in athletes.

Families in STL have choices that smaller rural communities don’t have. Parents can choose to send their kids to any of 30+ high schools either by moving 5-10 miles in their district or by selecting a private school they can afford. EVERY private school recruits students. MANY public schools do too.

As far as a solution, states like FL and AZ have open enrollment and school choice. Have kids that live within a set distance from their area high school be eligible for bussed transportation, but anyone outside of the radius is responsible for gettheir kids to and from school. Have a uniform amount of tax money that every public school in the state gets. Let parents choose which public school they want (provided classroom sizes and enrollment numbers stay below a threshold, with preferences for kids that live in the schools’ areas).

 

[FistOH]

Politics aside, Football Players come down to three criteria.
1. Eligibility
2. Dependability
3. Ability

 

[bullitpdq68]

Families in STL have choices that smaller rural communities don’t have. Parents can choose to send their kids to any of 30+ high schools either by moving 5-10 miles in their district or by selecting a private school they can afford. EVERY private school recruits students. MANY public schools do too.

As far as a solution, states like FL and AZ have open enrollment and school choice. Have kids that live within a set distance from their area high school be eligible for bussed transportation, but anyone outside of the radius is responsible for gettheir kids to and from school. Have a uniform amount of tax money that every public school in the state gets. Let parents choose which public school they want (provided classroom sizes and enrollment numbers stay below a threshold, with preferences for kids that live in the schools’ areas).

I don't know if I agree with open enrollment? But we do have some really small school districts that in reality could be adsorbed and overall tax dollars saved. In this area Verona needs to be split between Monett and Aurora, crap if you just let Monett have them all we could absorb them and not have to hire any new teachers. Your talking about 10-20 kids per each grade. I am sure there are other little districts like that around Missouri that could be shut down saving alot of tax dollars. Then Monett could go after Pierce City, adding all those kids we would still be class 4 and they were 10-1 this year in football this year and all juniors, that would be a great add for our program. Then I say we raid Purdy add them and we are still class 4 and they have some talented basketball players and baseball players. I think we could then just call it quits and sit back and watch the state championships roll in.

 

[FistOH]

I don't know if I agree with open enrollment? But we do have some really small school districts that in reality could be adsorbed and overall tax dollars saved. In this area Verona needs to be split between Monett and Aurora, crap if you just let Monett have them all we could absorb them and not have to hire any new teachers. Your talking about 10-20 kids per each grade. I am sure there are other little districts like that around Missouri that could be shut down saving alot of tax dollars. Then Monett could go after Pierce City, adding all those kids we would still be class 4 and they were 10-1 this year in football this year and all juniors, that would be a great add for our program. Then I say we raid Purdy add them and we are still class 4 and they have some talented basketball players and baseball players. I think we could then just call it quits and sit back and watch the state championships roll in.

Desegregation eliminated many neighborhood schools. Open enrollment seems too much like a failed nightmare. I'd rather leave it alone. Open enrollment in this political climate would create more trouble than any idea it hopes to fix.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Desegregation eliminated many neighborhood schools. Open enrollment seems too much like a failed nightmare. I'd rather leave it alone. Open enrollment in this political climate would create more trouble than any idea it hopes to fix.

 

[J. Kane]

 

[bullitpdq68]

 

[blkdayz]

From and education standpoint I see and understand for open enrollment, but from an athletic standpoint the fact that kids aren't in a divided school district is the entire debate here. Anytime you have a metropolitan area that can recruit within the rules it's not fair for the school who have defined districts and kids have to live there. That's then entire point. Don't get me wrong. I don't see a solution to this, but to ignore the fact that it's not a level playing field is crazy.

 

[Rcarlisle314]

Then you have to take into account the fact that some public schools play with kids that do not live in the district. The biggest recruiter in St Louis is not a private school; it is a public school. The public school buses kids in from suburbs outside the district. Again in STL it is not that simple. The public and private schools both recruit and a lot of the public schools here have out of district kids that play sports. The playing field will never be equal. Some schools will have advantages in certain areas and others will have advantages in other areas.

 

[FBisLife12]

I don't know if I agree with open enrollment? But we do have some really small school districts that in reality could be adsorbed and overall tax dollars saved. In this area Verona needs to be split between Monett and Aurora, crap if you just let Monett have them all we could absorb them and not have to hire any new teachers. Your talking about 10-20 kids per each grade. I am sure there are other little districts like that around Missouri that could be shut down saving alot of tax dollars. Then Monett could go after Pierce City, adding all those kids we would still be class 4 and they were 10-1 this year in football this year and all juniors, that would be a great add for our program. Then I say we raid Purdy add them and we are still class 4 and they have some talented basketball players and baseball players. I think we could then just call it quits and sit back and watch the state championships roll in.

It’s up to the kids’ parents to decide what’s best for their kids and where they go. Your hypotheticals are fine .... except for the “raiding” part. Just because Monett “goes after” Pierce City kids, doesn’t mean Piece City kids’ parents will do it. It’s the same w private school and public school fans thinking kids “belong to” public schools or are “stolen” by private schools.

 

[FBisLife12]

Desegregation eliminated many neighborhood schools. Open enrollment seems too much like a failed nightmare. I'd rather leave it alone. Open enrollment in this political climate would create more trouble than any idea it hopes to fix.

Desegregation was flawed because it’s imbalances in school funding (because more affluent areas generate more tax money) that lead to differences in quality of education. Open enrollment won’t pass because the people that fled to suburbs weren’t just wanting bigger homes or better schools. They were fleeing from the people they flat out didn’t want to live next to and be neighbors with.

 

[FBisLife12]

From and education standpoint I see and understand for open enrollment, but from an athletic standpoint the fact that kids aren't in a divided school district is the entire debate here. Anytime you have a metropolitan area that can recruit within the rules it's not fair for the school who have defined districts and kids have to live there. That's then entire point. Don't get me wrong. I don't see a solution to this, but to ignore the fact that it's not a level playing field is crazy.

I agree that it isn’t level between publics and privates. How do you deny parents that choice of sending their kids to private schools? Which isn’t what I think you’re suggesting. It’s to separate the two in post season play. With the exception of this year, how have public school teams suffered in terms of representation though? Are public schools somehow entitled to win ... so long as it’s just a public school and not a private one? Especially considering there are A LOT of public schools that never come close to wining a state championship anyway.

 

[FistOH]

Desegregation was flawed because it’s imbalances in school funding (because more affluent areas generate more tax money) that lead to differences in quality of education. Open enrollment won’t pass because the people that fled to suburbs weren’t just wanting bigger homes or better schools. They were fleeing from the people they flat out didn’t want to live next to and be neighbors with.

Desegregation closed neighborhood schools and consolidated kids in new schools. It sucked for the KCMO district. Hey, bright side, they might get full accreditation this year.

 

[hitch_and_go]

People want to say it's no big deal because public's have done just fine in the past. We are in a new age and social media has changed everything. We live in a world where it's easy to communicate with anyone ....these schools advertising "schlorship hs" or whatever aren't lost on kids and obviously talented athletes flock there because of the college schlorship appeal. If it wasn't for the large amount of private schools in stl then one school could corner the market and be like Bishop Gorman in Vegas ....I think it may happen eventually if one recruits better than most and rises to the top. Either way ...stl is going to produce some unbeatable teams and their public schools will get robbed of their studs on a regular basis

 

[hitch_and_go]

These kids know that if you simply start for Bishop Gorman , IMG , Don Bosco , Aquinas etc ...that's good enough for a d1 offer ...CBC and others are close to reaching that level

 

[Rcarlisle314]

CBC is far from BG level. The starting running back for CBC is still awaiting an offer. Only 2 CBC playes are in the top 30 recruits this year. CBC has 31 seniors and thats is why he was great this year. It is not really a star studded team like Trinity.

 

[hitch_and_go]

It was just an example....I remember looking at the top college signees a year or two ago. One kid that went to fsu I think was a wr for IMG . His senior year stats were something like 9 catches for 118 yds and 1 td. Simply starting at those schools is good enough for big colleges to take a chance on you

 

[hitch_and_go]

IMG has kids move across the country to play for them .... nobody in stl is at that level yet but I believe they are working on it

 

[FBisLife12]

Desegregation closed neighborhood schools and consolidated kids in new schools. It sucked for the KCMO district. Hey, bright side, they might get full accreditation this year.

It ravaged STL City schools, too. Not as much as all of the tax money from TIFs and abatements the city gave away to developers and corporations did ... but, still.

 

[FBisLife12]

People want to say it's no big deal because public's have done just fine in the past. We are in a new age and social media has changed everything. We live in a world where it's easy to communicate with anyone ....these schools advertising "schlorship hs" or whatever aren't lost on kids and obviously talented athletes flock there because of the college schlorship appeal. If it wasn't for the large amount of private schools in stl then one school could corner the market and be like Bishop Gorman in Vegas ....I think it may happen eventually if one recruits better than most and rises to the top. Either way ...stl is going to produce some unbeatable teams and their public schools will get robbed of their studs on a regular basis

I agree. I just hate the use of “robbed” to describe families choosing to send their own kids somewhere other than their municipal high school. Their property taxes belong to the district. Not their kids.

 

[FBisLife12]

I don’t agree.

I guess it’s the difference between the exposure the players from CBC and Trinity have gotten over the last 3-4 years that’s given one school more offers from colleges than the other? Maybe it’s grades or test scores or whether they’ve gotten qualified thru The NCAA Clearinghouse? Maybe some kids don’t WANT to play college ball? All I know is CBC has one helluva high school team. Everything about who’s gonna be what in college is speculation.

 

[d031280]

I guess we will see. If Trinity reloads after this class graduates then I think we can assume that they are recruiting?? They do have a great Sr. class of kids. Maybe the most talent to ever be on the same field in any class. If they replace these kids with a new crop of athletes over the next couple of years then we will see the clear advantage that private has over public. If you were to draw a 30 mile circle around Webb City and you could offer any kid to go to school there tuition free. Imagine the teams they would have. Even if they just picked up a handful of players from Lamar, CJ, Carthage, Seneca, etc... I don't see how anyone can't see the advantage that private schools in metropolitan areas have.

I do agree that public schools have been able to overcome this in the past. The Lamar's and Webb's clearly have a playbook on how to overcome the inferior athletes with a 'system'. Maybe we never see another Trinity with so much talent on one team. If this is a trend that continues then at some point.........the system will not be able to keep up with the talent. Overcoming 3 or 4 'athletes' with a system is one thing, but to try and overcome 10 to 12 is completely different. Anyway you look at it..........the field is not level in regards to private schools abilities to bring in athletes.

I can tell you right now that there are at least a couple of QBs who are probably hungry to get to Trinity now that I. Williams will be gone. Trinity is losing talent, but they are still loaded, so we will have to wait and see in a couple of years. I heard there were some pretty big freshmen shadowing at the school this year, but that's all I know about that. I already know this place will melt down if they a good an ends up there next season.

 

[BPcompete]

CBC is far from BG level. The starting running back for CBC is still awaiting an offer. Only 2 CBC playes are in the top 30 recruits this year. CBC has 31 seniors and thats is why he was great this year. It is not really a star studded team like Trinity.

the CBC RB will get em soon you have to think. had like 2k & 40 TDs, he'll win Gatorade POY in Missouri.

 

[BPcompete]

I can tell you right now that there are at least a couple of QBs who are probably hungry to get to Trinity now that I. Williams will be gone. Trinity is losing talent, but they are still loaded, so we will have to wait and see in a couple of years. I heard there were some pretty big freshmen shadowing at the school this year, but that's all I know about that. I already know this place will melt down if they a good an ends up there next season.

The ESTL QB a Sophomore who threw for 2k and ran for 1k transferred from Trinity because he didn't wanna sit behind Williams lol. The talent in the city is crazy right now.

 

[d031280]

The ESTL QB a Sophomore who threw for 2k and ran for 1k transferred from Trinity because he didn't wanna sit behind Williams lol. The talent in the city is crazy right now.

Yep he sure did. Kid was impatient, they had plenty of packages for him at qb where they would have simply moved I. Williams out to WR. He would have played plenty. His transferring was an argument I made for public schools recruiting talent as well. We all know East Side does it in this area.

 

[sw5890]

But we do have some really small school districts that in reality could be adsorbed and overall tax dollars saved.

That already happened, it's why all the districts are called R-3 or R-8 or whatever. There used to be a ton of really small schools that were reorganized and absorbed into larger nearby districts and that is also why some of the boundaries don't seem to make any sense.

Webb City includes former school districts Carterville, Alba, Prosperity, maybe others. Present day Carthage R9 includes Pleasant Valley and several rural areas that used to be served by one-room schools until around 1960.

But I agree with you, another round of consolidations seems likely as many rural areas are losing population and in economic decline.

 

[NorthWestBleachers]

That already happened, it's why all the districts are called R-3 or R-8 or whatever. There used to be a ton of really small schools that were reorganized and absorbed into larger nearby districts and that is also why some of the boundaries don't seem to make any sense.

Webb City includes former school districts Carterville, Alba, Prosperity, maybe others. Present day Carthage R9 includes Pleasant Valley and several rural areas that used to be served by one-room schools until around 1960.

But I agree with you, another round of consolidations seems likely as many rural areas are losing population and in economic decline.

That's a great post!
I had forgotten how schools actually received their R-? titles.
I remember hearing about this years ago. Amazing that some of those schools ARE actually R-8s and R-9s. I think at one time families living close to those initial lines even had some choices. But, once the lines were drawn they've pretty much been law?... Where practical? This might happen again and, it might be a good thing. I'm sure it will have drawbacks.

We've been talking in the WEMO post about more small schools having to make the choice to go to 8 man. Here in SW MO one of those schools was Liberal. They really struggled to field a team for most of the season and then had some kids who were hurt early come back and they finished their season well. Unfortunately, numbers behind this senior class were dismal and they will go 8 man. (See that post for more discussion... lol)

Geographically? If they were ever absorbed by another district? It would make for a rough bussing day for those kids. They sit in Prarie State Park ... many, many acres of land where no student lives (bad for revenue) and it puts them a longish drive from other schools.
Hard on these small communities with a real sense of home and pride to face tough times. Hard to imagine tougher times aren't coming though.