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Week 1 COC picks

I'm willing to bet that change is inevitable in the OMG ... all one has to do is read the social media comments on the CJ Athletics Facebook page this week in regards to travel to Jefferson City for the season opener. Be sure to bring your popcorn, it's entertaining. At the same time, it's a reflection of just how clueless the community is when it comes to school affiliation.

Keep in mind who made and what led to the decisions that were made in the past. When the court of public opinion gets its say, often times those voices can carry some weight.
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
As much as the west COC schools don't like it, the location is pretty much a fit too. They're no further away from the center of the conference than the west schools, just so happen to be on the other side.
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Except they are further away from the center, or what was the center, because you're moving the goal post. Only by adding Lebanon and Waynesville is Springfield the 'center' of the conference. It was not the center of the conference before. Lebanon and especially Waynesville were well outside of the geography of the COC at the time they were added.

Waynesville only fits from the perspective of someone in Springfield because for them at least, it's not any further than places they were already going.

Consider this - the COC adds Pryor, OK and Claremore, OK. If that happened I'm pretty confident the good people in Nixa would be up in arms. They would say those schools don't fit, they are too far away and one of them isn't even good competition. Then Joplin could say sure they fit, they are the same distance from the center of the conference (us), just in a direction that is unfortunate to you.
 
Craig Hull said:
I'm willing to bet that change is inevitable in the OMG ... all one has to do is read the social media comments on the CJ Athletics Facebook page this week in regards to travel to Jefferson City for the season opener. Be sure to bring your popcorn, it's entertaining. At the same time, it's a reflection of just how clueless the community is when it comes to school affiliation.

Keep in mind who made and what led to the decisions that were made in the past. When the court of public opinion gets its say, often times those voices can carry some weight.
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I've talked to a number of people in CJ and get answers all across the board. Those with high school kids seem to be willing to try anything to get out of the COC even if it means more travel. These are the same people who were excited about the COC until suddenly they weren't. The people who seem to hate it the most are the ones with jr high kids. At least in the new COC the jr high travel is just more springfield, not the really distant new schools.

I give the current arrangement 2 years before at least something changes.

It seems to me that football only conferences would solve a lot of problems and save a crap-ton of travel for a hell of a lot of people. I know it's more work for a few admins but it seems like it would be a win for everyone else.
 
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sw5890 said:
I've talked to a number of people in CJ and get answers all across the board. Those with high school kids seem to be willing to try anything to get out of the COC even if it means more travel. These are the same people who were excited about the COC until suddenly they weren't. The people who seem to hate it the most are the ones with jr high kids. At least in the new COC the jr high travel is just more springfield, not the really distant new schools.

I give the current arrangement 2 years before at least something changes.

It seems to me that football only conferences would solve a lot of problems and save a crap-ton of travel for a hell of a lot of people. I know it's more work for a few admins but it seems like it would be a win for everyone else.
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The easy thing to do is to separate junior high conferences from high school conferences. All of the Joplin area schools could play each other in junior high and that would be enough games for football and close to enough for the rest of the sports. After that you could just have everyone play the teams in their district and a few non conference games.
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
Yeah, I think their options were pretty limited. They didn't want to go the Rolla route (begging to get in Four Rivers), plus they're too big and too far for that anyway. I THINK they had the option of going the Camdenton route (up north with Columbia/Jeff/Sedalia), but they probably viewed that as worse. Here's the odd thing, they sorta/kinda fit. They just are really bad at football. Size wise they're a fit. Demographically they're a fit. As much as the west COC schools don't like it, the location is pretty much a fit too. They're no further away from the center of the conference than the west schools, just so happen to be on the other side. I'm not sure what the long term plan for Leb/Waynesville/Camdenton is, but I bet it's not where they are this season. I'm not sure any of them will be happy with their new conference.
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I think the Rolla to the Four Rivers Conference will get done. The smoke seems to be in the air with a large and small divisions. Cuba and Salem already applied when Rolla did and were denied as well. Seemed a little too quick for this cycle. Borgia is a free agent now as well. Rumor mill had Washington and Northwest looking to get into the Four Rivers as well. I think something gets done there.

Camdenton seems to be okay with the CMAC move for now. The COC is suppose to allow 2 non-conference games in football, the Lakers got Lebanon and Waynesville back on the schedule things will be fine until they realize they can't compete with the speed of the Columbia schools.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Yeah, I think their options were pretty limited. They didn't want to go the Rolla route (begging to get in Four Rivers), plus they're too big and too far for that anyway. I THINK they had the option of going the Camdenton route (up north with Columbia/Jeff/Sedalia), but they probably viewed that as worse. Here's the odd thing, they sorta/kinda fit. They just are really bad at football. Size wise they're a fit. Demographically they're a fit. As much as the west COC schools don't like it, the location is pretty much a fit too. They're no further away from the center of the conference than the west schools, just so happen to be on the other side. I'm not sure what the long term plan for Leb/Waynesville/Camdenton is, but I bet it's not where they are this season. I'm not sure any of them will be happy with their new conference.
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I have no idea what their options were, but Waynesville has fallen on tough times in most sports. The VB team won six games. The baseball team was winless in the OC and was outscored 89-7. I don't have anything against Waynesville so I'm not going to belabor the point, but IMO they're similar to where Hillcrest-Parkview are these days in most sports.

This version of the COC is going to be better than where the OC has been in recent years in most sports and TBH, most of the Waynesville programs are not up to being competitive in the COC.

Whether or not there's a league home for them that makes sense somewhere else is not for me to say.
 
sw5890 said:
Except they are further away from the center, or what was the center, because you're moving the goal post. Only by adding Lebanon and Waynesville is Springfield the 'center' of the conference. It was not the center of the conference before. Lebanon and especially Waynesville were well outside of the geography of the COC at the time they were added.

Waynesville only fits from the perspective of someone in Springfield because for them at least, it's not any further than places they were already going.

Consider this - the COC adds Pryor, OK and Claremore, OK. If that happened I'm pretty confident the good people in Nixa would be up in arms. They would say those schools don't fit, they are too far away and one of them isn't even good competition. Then Joplin could say sure they fit, they are the same distance from the center of the conference (us), just in a direction that is unfortunate to you.
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I think you confused geography center with political center. Or maybe I wasn’t just 100% clear on that. The west schools don’t really make the calls, especially now.
 
sw5890 said:
I had heard that Lebanon only took their JV squad to Sarcoxie, was that not the case? If Lebanon did lose their qb that is a huge break for Webb City no doubt.
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I don't know specifically who played in the jam, but if I was guessing, I would say the whole point of a Class 5 contender going to a jam with mediocre Class 2 teams was to get the young guys some experience.

If this was the old days of the spread and Lebanon was throwing the ball 40 times I'd say losing the starting QB was a huge loss. Now, I'm not so sure.
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
I think you confused geography center with political center. Or maybe I wasn’t just 100% clear on that. The west schools don’t really make the calls, especially now.
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I do wonder how long this lasts because you are right that the western schools might be ignored. They have a clear minority of the votes now. I just don't know where else they would go.
 
BearsCountry said:
I think the Rolla to the Four Rivers Conference will get done. The smoke seems to be in the air with a large and small divisions. Cuba and Salem already applied when Rolla did and were denied as well. Seemed a little too quick for this cycle. Borgia is a free agent now as well. Rumor mill had Washington and Northwest looking to get into the Four Rivers as well. I think something gets done there.

Camdenton seems to be okay with the CMAC move for now. The COC is suppose to allow 2 non-conference games in football, the Lakers got Lebanon and Waynesville back on the schedule things will be fine until they realize they can't compete with the speed of the Columbia schools.
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You could be right on the FRC. I just know the conference wasn’t a fan last spring.

“Camdenton” isn’t happy with the CMAC. A decision maker or two might be, because it was basically the easy way out. When it was proposed that Leb would be the voice of the new COC schools, Camdenton bailed. Had they been afforded the same say as all the other schools, and not had to depend on Will Christian and Leb providing for their best interest, they would’ve joined the COC. The CMAC was the only option they had other than Indy. They’d literally be anywhere else if they could be.
 
bullitpdq68 said:
I would ponder to guess that while the current Sup and AD are still CJ, the Big 8 will probable not let them back in. Those two both made sure to insult every Big 8 school they could on the way out and talk about how their demographics and facilities don't fit with the conference. I guess they never thought about what would happen if the the COC would never work out and they would have to cross that bridge again? But there is always hope Nevada did the same thing and later once some changes were made they were able to reapply and get in.
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How long did it take Nevada to get back in?
 
Rawlathaballa90 said:
Now if only the East schools would make it past districts...
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Yeah, that doesn’t really matter when it comes to who holds the power in the conference. The Webbies can sit around and feather their hair, rev up the Iroc-Z, and cruise Main St…but nobody really gives a crap when it comes to making decisions in the conference what they think.
 
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AC100 said:
I do wonder how long this lasts because you are right that the western schools might be ignored. They have a clear minority of the votes now. I just don't know where else they would go.
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Selfishly I hope nowhere. It makes sense, sort of, for them to be in the conference. What doesn’t make sense is forcing the “west” to play Leb/Waynesville in all other sports. Imagine heading from Webb to Waynesvegas on a Monday night for a girls hoops game. Goodness.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Selfishly I hope nowhere. It makes sense, sort of, for them to be in the conference. What doesn’t make sense is forcing the “west” to play Leb/Waynesville in all other sports. Imagine heading from Webb to Waynesvegas on a Monday night for a girls hoops game. Goodness.
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Can I be reference by July 2024 TMA Listener of the Month from now on? 🙂
 
Willard
Eagles_Ball said:
I won't track...but at least we can banter, right?

Willard @ Ozark
Carthage @ Waynesville
Neosho @ Glendale
Joplin @ Kickapoo
Webb City @ Lebanon
Republic @ Nixa

Feels good to have some football to talk about and look forward to.
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Willard
Carthage
Glendale
Joplin
Lebanon
Nixa
 
hsmaniac said:
Can I be reference by July 2024 TMA Listener of the Month from now on? 🙂
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What?!?! That's HUGE news! Are you the Milagro Tequila Listener of the month? Admittedly, I haven't tuned in much lately. The summer drastically changes my routine.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
What?!?! That's HUGE news! Are you the Milagro Tequila Listener of the month? Admittedly, I haven't tuned in much lately. The summer drastically changes my routine.
Click to expand...
I was indeed for July! Go to tmastl and you’ll see TMA Walrus #1 and that’s me
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Selfishly I hope nowhere. It makes sense, sort of, for them to be in the conference. What doesn’t make sense is forcing the “west” to play Leb/Waynesville in all other sports. Imagine heading from Webb to Waynesvegas on a Monday night for a girls hoops game. Goodness.
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Eagles_Balls, Your guesses and opinions at this point pretty much mean nothing to everyone on this board. Especially after last year when all your "expert tips and insights" ended up being dead wrong when it came to COC realignment. You have lost all credibility.
 
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tigershs said:
Eagles_Balls, Your guesses and opinions at this point pretty much mean nothing to everyone on this board. Especially after last year when all your "expert tips and insights" ended up being dead wrong when it came to COC realignment. You have lost all credibility.
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Shots fired! Shots fired!
 
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BoosterBosko said:
WHOA HO! Bosko likey!
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1fe8e7c3-d1d9-405c-a01b-da44d9a07064_text.gif
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
I think you confused geography center with political center. Or maybe I wasn’t just 100% clear on that. The west schools don’t really make the calls, especially now.
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I didn't confuse anything, you were specifically referring to location and claiming Waynesville "fits" but they don't. Adding them more than doubled the width of the conference footprint. But now you're talking about who wins in a political pissing match?
 
tigershs said:
Eagles_Balls, Your guesses and opinions at this point pretty much mean nothing to everyone on this board. Especially after last year when all your "expert tips and insights" ended up being dead wrong when it came to COC realignment. You have lost all credibility.
Click to expand...
9319c3bd-6719-4fad-b43c-6b85210712c7_text.gif
 
Craig Hull said:
I'm willing to bet that change is inevitable in the OMG ... all one has to do is read the social media comments on the CJ Athletics Facebook page this week in regards to travel to Jefferson City for the season opener. Be sure to bring your popcorn, it's entertaining. At the same time, it's a reflection of just how clueless the community is when it comes to school affiliation.

Keep in mind who made and what led to the decisions that were made in the past. When the court of public opinion gets its say, often times those voices can carry some weight.
Click to expand...
I still think eventually CJ best option would to rejoin the Big 8. However for now those in charge who felt they needed to insult members while leaving need to eat some humble pie.
 
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sw5890 said:
I didn't confuse anything, you were specifically referring to location and claiming Waynesville "fits" but they don't. Adding them more than doubled the width of the conference footprint. But now you're talking about who wins in a political pissing match?
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I mean, you can say they don't fit...but anyone with any knowledge of the conference knows where the decision making power in the conference resides. That's why I said Waynesville and Lebanon "fit". I think it all makes sense really, just what doesn't make sense is forcing the west schools to go east. That's silly. And you can not like a political pissing match, but that's what this is all about.
 
tigershs said:
Eagles_Balls, Your guesses and opinions at this point pretty much mean nothing to everyone on this board. Especially after last year when all your "expert tips and insights" ended up being dead wrong when it came to COC realignment. You have lost all credibility.
Click to expand...
Man, I'm married. I'm wrong a lot. Just ask my wife.

I honestly can't remember what I was "dead wrong" about. I remember hoping the conference would just boot the west schools and go with a centrally located conference. Something like SPS and the "surrounding" areas while maybe picking up a Leb or something like that. When you legitimately think about it, it makes sense. Short trips, reduce travel costs, we all know the pros far and away outweigh the cons in a purely business decision. But there is history, emotion, and the want for some sort of competitive balance that must be looked at as well. Not nearly that cut and dried. I never thought that would happen, but I had hope for sure.

But again, I have no doubt I was wrong.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Man, I'm married. I'm wrong a lot. Just ask my wife.

I honestly can't remember what I was "dead wrong" about. I remember hoping the conference would just boot the west schools and go with a centrally located conference. Something like SPS and the "surrounding" areas while maybe picking up a Leb or something like that. When you legitimately think about it, it makes sense. Short trips, reduce travel costs, we all know the pros far and away outweigh the cons in a purely business decision. But there is history, emotion, and the want for some sort of competitive balance that must be looked at as well. Not nearly that cut and dried. I never thought that would happen, but I had hope for sure.

But again, I have no doubt I was wrong.
Click to expand...
568cf110-dc17-4411-a05b-bf37c0655814_text.gif
 
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Eagles_Ball said:
Man, I'm married. I'm wrong a lot. Just ask my wife.

I honestly can't remember what I was "dead wrong" about. I remember hoping the conference would just boot the west schools and go with a centrally located conference. Something like SPS and the "surrounding" areas while maybe picking up a Leb or something like that. When you legitimately think about it, it makes sense. Short trips, reduce travel costs, we all know the pros far and away outweigh the cons in a purely business decision. But there is history, emotion, and the want for some sort of competitive balance that must be looked at as well. Not nearly that cut and dried. I never thought that would happen, but I had hope for sure.

But again, I have no doubt I was wrong.
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The 4 suburban schools and 5 city schools by themselves would work as a non football league but football is the 1st consideration for league formation.
 
AC100 said:
The 4 suburban schools and 5 city schools by themselves would work as a non football league but football is the 1st consideration for league formation.
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I honestly don't think it is to the extent others do, or maybe for the reasons others do. It's more of a safety meets competitive balance thing. The smartest thing would be to have a football league and then a league for everything else. Or just do away with "conferences" with football (on the varsity level) and let the teams freely schedule. Or have a schedule that's based around district opponents (think 8 team district and everyone in the district plays each other during the regular season) and a couple of "open" dates for rivalries or whatever that potentially gets left out. But see, this would create a lot more work for MSHSAA (getting districts out in a timely manner) and then admin (potentially putting a couple games together over the summer)...so that means the smartest option won't happen. It's weird, we hide behind the ole "whatever is best for kids" statement, but it's kind of conditional on not increasing workloads of the fat and happy. If you did this, you could let conferences determine sub-varsity/JH level scheduling.

It gets a little sticky with the JH situation at the SPS schools too. To make a simple blanket statement, their JH athletics are just a big hairy mess when it comes to scheduling with non-SPS schools.
 
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