Recommendation from Public-Nonpublic MSHSAA committee

[Ru-B-Do]

I am new to the board, however here is my 2 cents. I like the system how it is now. As an avid fan of Kickapoo, I can say that we loved the opportunity to play with teams like CBC this year. The kids loved the challenge and as a fan it was fun to see how we stack up with some of the states heavy hitters.

 

[shoot90draw]

Titles by Class since 2002.
8-man Public 13 Private 1
Class 1 Public 8 Private 6
Class 2 Public 11 Private 3
Class 3 Public 12 Private 2
Class 4 Public 14 Private 0
Class 5 Public 14 Private 0
Class 6 Public 9 Private 5

I would say that the problem if any lies in upper end enrollment advantage than it does in public vs. private school advantage.

Good numbers but here is something to consider. How many private schools are in there in each class?

 

[HannibalLector]

nm

 

[HannibalLector]

Why? Are kids from Kansas or Illinois better athletes? You do have an agenda, otherwise you wouldn't care where the kids were from that played for a MSHSAA member school (that abides by association rules).

Don't hurt yourself trying to come up with a cogent explanation.

If you can't see the difference then stop replying to my post because you keep showing your stupidity.

 

[MORock]

If you can't see the difference then stop replying to my post because you keep showing your stupidity.

Just interested in your rationale. Apparently putting together a reasoned explanation is too taxing for your intellect. Sorry to upset you Gomer.

 

[Kenny56]

Good numbers but here is something to consider. How many private schools are in there in each class?

Does it matter? Somehow Public schools find a way.

Valle wins it all and they cheat. Blue Springs or Webb City wins it all and it's coaching or hard work...

You whiners need to grow a sack and beat the private schools. Trust me, it's more fun that way.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Does it matter? Somehow Public schools find a way.

Valle wins it all and they cheat. Blue Springs or Webb City wins it all and it's coaching or hard work...

You whiners need to grow a sack and beat the private schools. Trust me, it's more fun that way.

55-21
34-7
36-28
14-33

Seniors at class 3 SG lost to their class 1 counterpart 3 of 4 years.

Is it lack of sack? (your term not mine)

Well done kenny.


That said..any school should be classified by the district of any student enrolled there. Voila they're playin against teams with the same talent pool.

Maybe SG should schedule Webb and Fort Osage and some other bigger class west side schools and find out how fun it is.

 

[HoopsTournament]

So you paid for another student, who could not afford it, the tuition to a private school? Did this kid play sports? I would like to hear why your public school is so bad?

No, the student was in 4th grade and went until 8th grade. She did play sports in 7th and 8th, but was not a star player. She sat on the bench.

All you have to do is google St. Joseph School District and you will see enough about the problems with the district.

 

[Kenny56]

55-21
34-7
36-28
14-33

Seniors at class 3 SG lost to their class 1 counterpart 3 of 4 years.

Is it lack of sack? (your term not mine)

Well done kenny.


That said..any school should be classified by the district of any student enrolled there. Voila they're playin against teams with the same talent pool.

Maybe SG should schedule Webb and Fort Osage and some other bigger class west side schools and find out how fun it is.

I never see kids from Ste. Gen. whining about it do you?

What does your last line even mean?

 

[HannibalLector]

Just interested in your rationale. Apparently putting together a reasoned explanation is too taxing for your intellect. Sorry to upset you Gomer.

What the he!! are you talking about Barney. What rational do you need to understand that kids from a different state don't need to be playing for a Missouri title. This link just about covers everything.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

I totally agree. If a kid lives across state lines, they should not be able to attend school in a bordering state. Just my opinion

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

I totally agree. If a kid lives across state lines, they should not be able to attend school in a bordering state. Just my opinion

I have no problem with kids living in one state and going to another. I think a kid living in West Seneca,OK less than 1/2 a mile from the schools in Seneca shouldn't have to go to school 7 miles away in Wyandotte. I don't like the idea at least in football of public and private schools being separate.

 

[LHSTiger81]

What if you live in Missouri but go to Kansas to participate in underage drinking on the weekends? Would that cause an issue since you are hydrating with Kansas beer and then bringing it over to Missouri? Not that this is the case, now, but back in the late 70's and early 80's, it was,,,, allegedly....

 

[bullitpdq68]

I have no problem with kids living in one state and going to another. I think a kid living in West Seneca,OK less than 1/2 a mile from the schools in Seneca shouldn't have to go to school 7 miles away in Wyandotte. I don't like the idea at least in football of public and private schools being separate.

Rock the problem with what you just described could be any school district that does not cross state lines. In Monett you can live just 3 miles from the elementary school but are in Pierce cities school district and therefore have to attend Pierce City and travel over 12 miles to make it to school. So what is the difference? You cannot get a pass to attend Monett just because 70 years ago that is when the school district lines were drawn.

I just don't think a private nor public school should be able to bring in talent from out of state whose parents or guardians don't even live in the state. Sorry if you are there for the education you should have no problem not playing sports, but all too often one goes with the other.

 

[fungoking]

If the reason a kid crosses state lines to go to school is for education then not getting to play in the state tournament is no big deal...unless the "better education" argument is just a smokescreen.

Springfield Catholic isn’t in the top ten of SWMO schools that have had established star players from other schools move in and make a varsity impact. Her senior year my daughter played district volleyball against a team in which 5 of their starters she had played JV ball against when they were at different schools. Privates have an unfair advantage but when it comes to good players turning up at a new school, but several public schools seem to be lucky a lot.

 

[KCHI]

just to add more fun to the private - public debate. New Jersey has officially separated the two for football.
https://coachad.com/news/new-jersey-separates-public-private-school-football/

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I never see kids from Ste. Gen. whining about it do you?

What does your last line even mean?

Do they need to 'nut up'?

What that line means is your favorite teams should 'nut up' and play teams with much bigger talent pools(like small private schools have compared to public schools)

 

[Kenny56]

Do they need to 'nut up'?

What that line means is your favorite teams should 'nut up' and play teams with much bigger talent pools(like small private schools have compared to public schools)

Apparently they have already since they have and will play them

It's the rest of you whiners that need to get your act together.

Cry cry cry

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Apparently they have already since they have and will play them

It's the rest of you whiners that need to get your act together.

Cry cry cry

Learn some math. Approx. student body in SG county (and probably a few from another county) is 800. Most class 1 schools are 200ish.

SG HS is 600ish? play some class 6 WEST SIDE schools. East side public schools aren't even playing the same game. Only way the east wins anything is private schools. What does that tell you?

Is your boy going to valle or will he be getting beat by schools 75% smaller?

 

[MIZ...ZOU]

From 2002-2015 they have had 6 classes plus 8-man. Public school's have won 81 championships and Private school's 17 Championships. In the previous 14 seasons from 1988-2001 Public school's won 64 championships and Private school's won 22 championships. So in the past 28 years Publics have a 145-39 advantage in winning state football titles.

What are the numbers of total schools public to private? As you stated Championships are about 4 to 1. Private football playing schools have won 21.1% of SC in the past 28 years. (assuming your facts are correct) What is the ratio between public and private football playing schools? I know there is about 335 Football playing schools in 11 man.

I know there are a lot of bad private schools football teams out there...just like there are a lot of bad public schools.

 

[panther72]

What are the numbers of total schools public to private?

I think there are 43 private and charter schools that use the multiplier. Among the half dozen or so charter is Hogan Prep the only one that has had success in football?

 

[blue and white pride]

8-man Public 18 Private 3
Class 1 Public 58 Private 3
Class 2 Public 52 Private 10
Class 3 Public 50 Private 14
Class 4 Public 53 Private 11
Class 5 Public 51 Private 2
Class 6 Public 28 Private 4

 

[Mitsurugi san]

8-man Public 18 Private 3
Class 1 Public 58 Private 3
Class 2 Public 52 Private 10
Class 3 Public 50 Private 14
Class 4 Public 53 Private 11
Class 5 Public 51 Private 2
Class 6 Public 28 Private 4

So few privates compared to publics and yet four out of the six 11-man classes had privates representing them in the dome; what does that tell you? (The stubborn ones will continue to insist that this is only an indication of how much harder the kids at these private schools work; bah!)

Still not in favor of outright separating the privates into their own class...

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

Public vs Private..this argument only gets more interesting by the year.

 

[HannibalLector]

I'm for private to be on their own, but it isn't practical.

 

[Kenny56]

Learn some math. Approx. student body in SG county (and probably a few from another county) is 800. Most class 1 schools are 200ish.

SG HS is 600ish? play some class 6 WEST SIDE schools. East side public schools aren't even playing the same game. Only way the east wins anything is private schools. What does that tell you?

Is your boy going to valle or will he be getting beat by schools 75%

I don't know yet. So far Valle Alumn have offered up a case of beer a month during my boys playing days. That's enticing.

 

[SadButTrue]

These rules are directly aimed at the successful private schools. Don't act like they are not. So actually these rules would punish success.

I think the problem lies in the fact that private can control their enrollment, they have no students with IEPs, they can get kids from, what is it, 25 miles away. Just to name a few. These rules were for having a level playing field. Why do you people get so defensive?

 

[Kzar]

"...25 miles away..."

 

[jlar2015]

Kenny-The most ignorant comment that I here on the topic of public and private is public schools need to just nut up and win. Please explain how a semi talented team can compete with a team that selects outside talent and can bring them in? I have no problem with saying if kids grow up and attend the same private school all the way through then public schools need to nut up and beat them, but if kids transfer in to make the private better the nut up statement is ignorant.

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

25 mile radius? Does that mean they have to live within 12 1/2 miles of the superintendent building?

 

[JakeFrmStateFarm]

Kenny-The most ignorant comment that I here on the topic of public and private is public schools need to just nut up and win. Please explain how a semi talented team can compete with a team that selects outside talent and can bring them in? I have no problem with saying if kids grow up and attend the same private school all the way through then public schools need to nut up and beat them, but if kids transfer in to make the private better the nut up statement is ignorant.

How many public class 1 schools in MO have kids from all over a county attending?

 

[bullitpdq68]

How many public class 1 schools in MO have kids from all over a county attending?

You talking about a rural poor county of maybe 8,000 people versus a private school in a county just outside a large city possible made up of over 30,000 people.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

Kenny-The most ignorant comment that I here on the topic of public and private is public schools need to just nut up and win. Please explain how a semi talented team can compete with a team that selects outside talent and can bring them in? I have no problem with saying if kids grow up and attend the same private school all the way through then public schools need to nut up and beat them, but if kids transfer in to make the private better the nut up statement is ignorant.

But there are schools everywhere that do just that. And then there are ones that sit around and bitch about it.

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Titles by Class since 2002.
8-man Public 13 Private 1
Class 1 Public 8 Private 6
Class 2 Public 11 Private 3
Class 3 Public 12 Private 2
Class 4 Public 14 Private 0
Class 5 Public 14 Private 0
Class 6 Public 9 Private 5

I would say that the problem if any lies in upper end enrollment advantage than it does in public vs. private school advantage.

I realize that in several other sports private schools are very dominant but if we are talking football let's be honest we are really only talking about maybe 10 or so schools and more than any others we are talking about: Valle, Rockhurst and John Burroughs. Of those schools only Valle really seems to be head and shoulders better than the rest of the schools in their class.

I realize the potential is there for a lot of private schools to assemble a team that public schools can not but it seems that only Valle has been able to do it pretty consistently. Other than they win all the time and they are a private school I confess to know very little about Valle. I have never been to Ste Genevieve and I'm sure it is a fine town but if they were plucking a bunch of public school kids away from St Gen high that Kenny would say so.

Tweaking the multiplier so Valle is Class 2 and maybe John Burroughs is Class 4 might create a little more parity but no multiplier is going to change Class 5 and 6. 25 mile radius is an arbitrary number but seem a pretty big one. I don't think any public school in the state has students that have to drive 25 miles to get to the school, even in some county schools though I may be wrong. I do know that 25 miles from where Rockhurst is includes almost all of the Kansas City metro area and would be the same for Desmet or CBC in St Louis. I don't like the idea of telling students that they can't attend the school of their choice be it private or public for that matter. I don't feel any better about letting those students attend and then say but you can't play sports. I do think maybe when you cross state lines it could make a difference as far as eligibility but even then I can't say I'm bent out of shape about a Catholic kid that lives a mile away in Leawood, KS going to Rockhurst and playing football. If anything maybe the restrictions should be relaxed on what kids can attend neighboring public schools/

If there were 32 large private schools from Class 4-6 I could see the validity of a separate division. As a Webb City fan though I think the absence of Helias in particular in Class 4 over the past decade would have watered down the quality of Class 4 and this year you have a Public school champ in Classes 4-6 with Class 4 being a public school final.

 

[jlar2015]

I agree football isn't close to as bad as basketball, soccer and others. Could MSHSAA not make more money by seperating them, governing them both and at the end of the year have the public state champs play the private state champs? Seems to me like more dollars more competition and the last game would have all the hype public vs. private. What do you all think?

 

[Mitsurugi san]

25 mile radius? Does that mean they have to live within 12 1/2 miles of the superintendent building?

You're thinking of diameter; diameter is the distance from one edge of a circle to the opposite edge (radius is the distance from the center of a circle to the edge), so a circle with a radius of 25 has a diameter of 50 from one end to the other

 

[Mitsurugi san]

I realize that in several other sports private schools are very dominant but if we are talking football let's be honest we are really only talking about maybe 10 or so schools and more than any others we are talking about: Valle, Rockhurst and John Burroughs.

...and CBC, for sure!

 

[JakeFrmStateFarm]

You talking about a rural poor county of maybe 8,000 people versus a private school in a county just outside a large city possible made up of over 30,000 people.

I was just

You talking about a rural poor county of maybe 8,000 people versus a private school in a county just outside a large city possible made up of over 30,000 people.

id like for jasper to be able to play with kids from webb joplin lamar and lockwood. I think that is a recipe for a state title

 

[Kenny56]

What is the expected salary for these Middle School football scouts?

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

You're thinking of diameter; diameter is the distance from one edge of a circle to the opposite edge (radius is the distance from the center of a circle to the edge), so a circle with a radius of 25 has a diameter of 50 from one end to the other

So they can live within 50 miles of the school?