ADVERTISEMENT

Mo on Grichuk

Duck_walk

Duck_walk

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2002
23,081
4,231
113
Mozeliak said they "all" think Grichuk can be an all star offensively. More than once he expressed a desire to get a new CF so they can move Grichuk to left.

Am I missing something? His onbase % is .289. His strike out % is .297. In comparison, Holliday has had an onbase between .380 and .415 every year in STL except 2016. Grichuk is not even close to being an all star. He was sent down twice this year. He isn't 21 years old.

Also, according to Fangraphs, Piscotty doesn't have much range defensively either. I'm all for replacing Grichuk and Holliday in the OF with better defenders.
 
Duck_walk said:
Mozeliak said they "all" think Grichuk can be an all star offensively. More than once he expressed a desire to get a new CF so they can move Grichuk to left.

Am I missing something? His onbase % is .289. His strike out % is .297. In comparison, Holliday has had an onbase between .380 and .415 every year in STL except 2016. Grichuk is not even close to being an all star. He was sent down twice this year. He isn't 21 years old.

Also, according to Fangraphs, Piscotty doesn't have much range defensively either. I'm all for replacing Grichuk and Holliday in the OF with better defenders.
Click to expand...
He is literally the perfect 8th place hitter right now. I agree, a CF'er with some range and speed would be perfect. Not sure what's going to be out there, but I expect if Heyward got what he got...it might be tough. Though a trade is a possibility I suppose. Problem is, SP market sucks too. Can't imagine the Birds have the juice to land a CF'er and top flight starter through trade.
 
I'm not going to get too excited about big changes. Too many times when the season ends MO explains the problems with the club, but the FA market is weak so they are going to have to trade and that is a very tough way to change the looks of your team.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
He is literally the perfect 8th place hitter right now. I agree, a CF'er with some range and speed would be perfect. Not sure what's going to be out there, but I expect if Heyward got what he got...it might be tough. Though a trade is a possibility I suppose. Problem is, SP market sucks too. Can't imagine the Birds have the juice to land a CF'er and top flight starter through trade.
Click to expand...
I'd say 6th place hitter. He slugs like crazy. Put him up there after the good guys get on base and let him swing for the fences.

I don't see him ever being a stud for the reasons mentioned by Duck, but he's an average starting OF if he slugs .500. Use the value from having him in the lineup to pay for a real CF.
 
vbsideout said:
I'm not going to get too excited about big changes. Too many times when the season ends MO explains the problems with the club, but the FA market is weak so they are going to have to trade and that is a very tough way to change the looks of your team.
Click to expand...
Correct. That's basically where I'm at too. The FA market is pretty weak in those areas.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
CF isn't much better. Check it out. But yeah...Big contract for Jeremy Hellickson? Nah bro, I'm good. Sheesh. He's the 2017 FA class version of Gil Meche.
Click to expand...
Ian Desmond in CF doesn't excite me and Fowler doesn't do much for me.
 
vbsideout said:
Ian Desmond in CF doesn't excite me and Fowler doesn't do much for me.
Click to expand...
Desmond doesn't, but Fowler does move the needle for me a bit. He'd be the only one I'd even consider I think. I like the thought of Fowler, Diaz, Marp, Piscotty doing things in 1-4 spots. Only issue is, Fowler is probably worse at being a CF'er than Grichuk. Or Shin-Soo Choo for that matter.
 
There were some interesting names brought up in a PD article about CF's that the Cards may want to try and target in a potential trade scenario this offseason. It was pure speculation of course, but the most exciting name was AJ Pollock. The really intriguing option was a trade for Kiermeier and Longoria from TB.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Desmond doesn't, but Fowler does move the needle for me a bit. He'd be the only one I'd even consider I think. I like the thought of Fowler, Diaz, Marp, Piscotty doing things in 1-4 spots. Only issue is, Fowler is probably worse at being a CF'er than Grichuk. Or Shin-Soo Choo for that matter.
Click to expand...
Fowler gets a bad reputation because of trying to play defense in Houston and Colorado before Chicago . Those are two black holes known as center field.

He won't be cheap either
 
wccards21 said:
Fowler gets a bad reputation because of trying to play defense in Houston and Colorado before Chicago . Those are two black holes known as center field.

He won't be cheap either
Click to expand...
His UZR numbers have been better in Wrigley...but still below league AVG. I'm cool with that if his offense is what it was this year...Whadya think he gets?
 
goinlong said:
There were some interesting names brought up in a PD article about CF's that the Cards may want to try and target in a potential trade scenario this offseason. It was pure speculation of course, but the most exciting name was AJ Pollock. The really intriguing option was a trade for Kiermeier and Longoria from TB.
Click to expand...
Hochman's blowing gas. The Birds have one legitimate name on the prospects list (Reyes). Bader and Weaver check in near the bottom of the top 100. There's not much to go get these guys w/o effecting the major league roster. And you're not getting any of them for Matt Adams and one of the rehabbing pitchers. They just simply don't have the juice to get a game changer in a deal.
 
wccards21 said:
Fowler gets a bad reputation because of trying to play defense in Houston and Colorado before Chicago . Those are two black holes known as center field.

He won't be cheap either
Click to expand...
Didn't realize he had a $9M option for 2017 either. They'll surely pick that up.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Hochman's blowing gas. The Birds have one legitimate name on the prospects list (Reyes). Bader and Weaver check in near the bottom of the top 100. There's not much to go get these guys w/o effecting the major league roster. And you're not getting any of them for Matt Adams and one of the rehabbing pitchers. They just simply don't have the juice to get a game changer in a deal.
Click to expand...
Except you never know how scouts and GM's from other teams see players. Not to mention TB and Arizona were terrible and may look for opportunities to hit the reset button. I'm certainly not saying it will happen, but you never know.
 
Mutual option. The Cubs signed him strictly to a 1 year deal. The 9 million was protection for Fowler and to get him to come back

My guess is with how terrible the market is, the cheapest you'd sign him for is in the 14M/yr range. I'm thinking more in the 16 range personally.

Yes, his metrics aren't fantastic....but they aren't as bad as most think. He might not have great closing speed, but he makes all the plays you need out in CF. The Cubs very well could bring him back, but it would be a short term deal again because of Almora. I'm not sure he'd do that again,no matter how much he loves Chicago
 
goinlong said:
Except you never know how scouts and GM's from other teams see players. Not to mention TB and Arizona were terrible and may look for opportunities to hit the reset button. I'm certainly not saying it will happen, but you never know.
Click to expand...
Bad teams typically don't make a habbit of trading their one or two good players. I suppose Rachel Bilson could walk into open gym here in an hour or so and tell me she's been lusting after me for years. But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen either.
 
There is zero chance Pollock is traded

Unless TLR somehow manages to keep his job, and gets drunk at the winter meetings. If Pollock is traded, the Cardinals don't have the fire power to make a big move like that. Unless you plan on moving Reyes as 1 piece going back.
 
Shoot if we are going to dream let's get Trout for A. Reyes, Wong, Adams, Jaimi, and Peralta throw Weaver in there if we have to.
 
vbsideout said:
Shoot if we are going to dream let's get Trout for A. Reyes, Wong, Adams, Jaimi, and Peralta throw Weaver in there if we have to.
Click to expand...
Honestly the Angels would probably do that...And it would be an awful trade for the Birds, IMHO.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Honestly the Angels would probably do that...And it would be an awful trade for the Birds, IMHO.
Click to expand...
The cost is huge but it solves several problems Best Defensive CF in baseball and #4 hitter. Pitching would be a problem
lineup
1Carp 1st
2Diaz ss
3Piscotti rf
4Trout cf
5Yadi c
6Gyrko 3b
7Grichuk lf
8Garcia 2b
Could put Moss at 1st and Carp at 2nd
No bench what so ever
Starters Martinez, Waino, Leake, Lynn, Gonzalez, Cooney, Faherty,
This way I get rid of all the Birds hate except for Reyes
 
Eagles_Ball said:
Honestly the Angels would probably do that...And it would be an awful trade for the Birds, IMHO.
Click to expand...
No

No they wouldn't. That's an awful move for the LAA. Trading the greatest player this generation will ever see for a pile of crap and Reyes? If that happened, their GM and Ownership deserve to go through a public hanging in front of their stadium.
 
vbsideout said:
The cost is huge but it solves several problems Best Defensive CF in baseball and #4 hitter. Pitching would be a problem
lineup
1Carp 1st
2Diaz ss
3Piscotti rf
4Trout cf
5Yadi c
6Gyrko 3b
7Grichuk lf
8Garcia 2b
Could put Moss at 1st and Carp at 2nd
No bench what so ever
Starters Martinez, Waino, Leake, Lynn, Gonzalez, Cooney, Faherty,
This way I get rid of all the Birds hate except for Reyes
Click to expand...
That is, by far, a worse roster compilation than what the Birds put out this year. Any rotation that has to count on those four guys covering roughly 500 innings is scary. Lynn for health and the other three for health and completely not knowing if they can consistently get major league hitters out. The Birds would basically turn into the Angels with a smaller payroll.
 
wccards21 said:
No

No they wouldn't. That's an awful move for the LAA. Trading the greatest player this generation will ever see for a pile of crap and Reyes? If that happened, their GM and Ownership deserve to go through a public hanging in front of their stadium.
Click to expand...
I don't view it that way at all, truthfully. You get an ace, and two back end guys for the rotation. A starting 2B (for them), and some trash/bench help. I'm not a Birds homer at all, but for the life of me, there isn't a chance in the world I'd make that deal as a Birds fan. I'd rather watch Adams play 1B everyday than deal with the fallout from that deal.
 
wccards21 said:
No

No they wouldn't. That's an awful move for the LAA. Trading the greatest player this generation will ever see for a pile of crap and Reyes? If that happened, their GM and Ownership deserve to go through a public hanging in front of their stadium.
Click to expand...
But on the flip side, I sort of agree with a little of what you're saying. The current Angels GM and ownership wouldn't do it. They've said that publicly. But keep in mind, they're the ding dongs that have the Angels where they are now with salary and roster too. Giving Ruben Amaros' tenure in Philly a run for his money.
 
No, I fully get your stance from the Cardinals side. You can't ruin what little depth you have for 1 player. 100% agree

But LAA would be completely within reason to ask the Cubs for Bryant in a trade for Trout....and it would still take other pieces. As well as taking on his contract (which is very cheap, for his level of play)
 
vbsideout said:
Shoot if we are going to dream let's get Trout for A. Reyes, Wong, Adams, Jaimi, and Peralta throw Weaver in there if we have to.
Click to expand...
They need more. Wong wasn't that great last year. Jaime 1 year from FA at not cheap. Peralta is ancient. Adams is meh on a team that is stuck with Pujols already.

Trout isn't going to be traded, but that doesn't feel like the right package.
 
Eagles_Ball said:
I don't view it that way at all, truthfully. You get an ace, and two back end guys for the rotation. A starting 2B (for them), and some trash/bench help. I'm not a Birds homer at all, but for the life of me, there isn't a chance in the world I'd make that deal as a Birds fan. I'd rather watch Adams play 1B everyday than deal with the fallout from that deal.
Click to expand...
Oh lord I'd make it in a heartbeat given our roster. Adding a 9 WAR CF for that? Sign the dotted line right now.

Cards would be better off doing that, giving Moss a qualifying offer to be 1B, and signing a good defensive middle infielder to fill in the gap than whatever they are going to do.

I think you vastly overestimate the value those players would add to our ballclub over the next 5 years. They probably won't be worth even 9 WAR next year. Plus pitchers get hurt more than position players - young pitchers like Reyes have a lot more injury risk than a guy like Trout.

This is why that trade would never happen - it's nowhere near enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vbsideout and wccards21
Neutron Monster said:
Oh lord I'd make it in a heartbeat given our roster. Adding a 9 WAR CF for that? Sign the dotted line right now.

Cards would be better off doing that, giving Moss a qualifying offer to be 1B, and signing a good defensive middle infielder to fill in the gap than whatever they are going to do.

I think you vastly overestimate the value those players would add to our ballclub over the next 5 years. They probably won't be worth even 9 WAR next year. Plus pitchers get hurt more than position players - young pitchers like Reyes have a lot more injury risk than a guy like Trout.

This is why that trade would never happen - it's nowhere near enough.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the Cardinals more than a few games? Moss can not be your first baseman. He can not play the position.
On top of that, he is a .225 hitter. He can barely play the outfield. If he is signed to another contract the Cardinals are headed to the cellar.
 
runyouover said:
Did you watch the Cardinals more than a few games? Moss can not be your first baseman. He can not play the position.
On top of that, he is a .225 hitter. He can barely play the outfield. If he is signed to another contract the Cardinals are headed to the cellar.
Click to expand...
In that hypothetical scenario, it almost doesn't matter who your 1B is

Who is this magical 1B that the Cards are supposed to get, though? Realistically, Moss may be the most cost effective option available if he takes an ok price on a one year deal.
 
Neutron Monster said:
In that hypothetical scenario, it almost doesn't matter who your 1B is

Who is this magical 1B that the Cards are supposed to get, though? Realistically, Moss may be the most cost effective option available if he takes an ok price on a one year deal.
Click to expand...

Moss can't catch the ball at first base.

Like I said, if they sign him they are conceding the next five years to the Cubs.
You can't have Moss and Grichuk in the same lineup and compete for the division.
 
runyouover said:
Moss can't catch the ball at first base.

Like I said, if they sign him they are conceding the next five years to the Cubs.
You can't have Moss and Grichuk in the same lineup and compete for the division.
Click to expand...
Now you're just being a ridiculous troll. Moss won't be in MLB in five years. He's a 1 year option.
 
I don't see how Moss is worth $6 million more than Adams. Is a few more HRs and the "kind of" ability to play LF worth it? He was probably the 2nd worse LF on the team after Holliday and he's not as good at 1B as Adams.

What to do with Peralta and Wong? Wong is the best 2B glove. But will he ever hit consistently enough? If anyone could convince him to just make contact and use his speed instead of swinging from his heels every time he might. But he hasn't shown any signs of wanting to do that yet. Peralta is not really any better than Carp or Jed at 3B. And he doesn't hit with either one. Could he move to 1B and platoon with either Moss or Adams?

Several questions the brass will need to answer. They say they want to get back to better defense. If, and that's a big if, they find a better CF how do you use the remaining guys to improve the D?
 
oldroundballer said:
I don't see how Moss is worth $6 million more than Adams. Is a few more HRs and the "kind of" ability to play LF worth it? He was probably the 2nd worse LF on the team after Holliday and he's not as good at 1B as Adams.

What to do with Peralta and Wong? Wong is the best 2B glove. But will he ever hit consistently enough? If anyone could convince him to just make contact and use his speed instead of swinging from his heels every time he might. But he hasn't shown any signs of wanting to do that yet. Peralta is not really any better than Carp or Jed at 3B. And he doesn't hit with either one. Could he move to 1B and platoon with either Moss or Adams?

Several questions the brass will need to answer. They say they want to get back to better defense. If, and that's a big if, they find a better CF how do you use the remaining guys to improve the D?
Click to expand...
Adams has to stay healthy before the Cards can pretend he is starting 145 games a year. Whether or not it's Moss...the Cards will have some supplemental plan at 1B beyond him. For example, they could decide to play Carp or even Gyorko there more.

Given the contract situation of Peralta/Wong/Diaz/Gyorko/Carp, it feels like the Cards won't be looking for much at 2B/SS/3B, which is why a lot of the focus defensively is on improving the obvious hole in the outfield.

I agree with you that it would help defensively if Wong were at 2B. I wonder if Carp is going to get moved off 3B. Cards are probably better defensively with Gyorko at 3B, Diaz at SS, Wong at 2B, and Carp at 1B. That lineup could use some OBP in the outfield, though.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Q

Most Publicized High School Athletes in Missouri - Where are they now?

Replies
43
Views
6K
FOOTBALL
farmer_fran
farmer_fran
M

Greenfield

Replies
11
Views
2K
FOOTBALL
stocktiger82
S
Toots_mcgee

Trade deadline

Replies
17
Views
1K
St. Louis Cardinals Playoff Central
Eagles_Ball
Eagles_Ball
Q

NIL for Missouri HS Seniors (Detailed Article)

Replies
1
Views
1K
FOOTBALL
JoeENorthlando
JoeENorthlando
K

Missouri beats Kansas All-Stars

Replies
0
Views
2K
FOOTBALL
KCPrepZone
K
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back