Trade deadline

[Toots_mcgee]

I’m sure I’m in the minority. But I wouldn’t trade Donovan, O’Neill, Noot, Edman, Gorman, Arenado or Hicks. But everyone else is available for the right price.

Including Walker, who isn’t going to be a good defensive outfielder EVER. You don’t learn to play defense in the majors. If you can package him for a great pitcher, do it. Same with Winn. So tired of overvaluing prospects. Right Carlson! At one point we could have packaged Reyes and Carson Kelly for an All-Star starting pitcher. What a choke. But but but Reyes is the #1 prospect in all of baseball. How did that turn out?

They need to sell high.

I took a lot of heat on this board for ripping on Matheny back when the Cardinals were winning. How’d his career turn out? I was called Mr Negative when I was demanding they stop playing Pete Kozma when the cardinals were winning games. Where did he end up? I could go on and on.

Cardinals fans are far too tolerant. Major blunders are made and 3 million people keeping pouring thru the turnstiles.

 

[TadQueasy]

You call fans too tolerant and then say you want to keep half the team? lol pick a lane

 

[Toots_mcgee]

You call fans too tolerant and then say you want to keep half the team? lol pick a lane

You can’t trade the whole team bro.
But 90% of the fans want to trade O’Neill when he is at his lowest value of his career.

I want them to trade Mo and Marmol while they are at their max of arrogance.

 

[TadQueasy]

I am not saying they are to trade the whole team. But aside from Arenado there is no one that should be untouchable. You explore trades for anyone and everyone. See what you can get. Completely agree about Mo and Marmol as well. But unfortunately, I dont see anything happening on that front.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I’m sure I’m in the minority. But I wouldn’t trade Donovan, O’Neill, Noot, Edman, Gorman, Arenado or Hicks. But everyone else is available for the right price.

Including Walker, who isn’t going to be a good defensive outfielder EVER. You don’t learn to play defense in the majors. If you can package him for a great pitcher, do it. Same with Winn. So tired of overvaluing prospects. Right Carlson! At one point we could have packaged Reyes and Carson Kelly for an All-Star starting pitcher. What a choke. But but but Reyes is the #1 prospect in all of baseball. How did that turn out?

They need to sell high.

I took a lot of heat on this board for ripping on Matheny back when the Cardinals were winning. How’d his career turn out? I was called Mr Negative when I was demanding they stop playing Pete Kozma when the cardinals were winning games. Where did he end up? I could go on and on.

Cardinals fans are far too tolerant. Major blunders are made and 3 million people keeping pouring thru the turnstiles.

I'm in the further minority. I'd move just about anyone on the current roster outside of Gorman and Walker. Arenado and/or Goldy would have to bring a HAUL, but I think either or both of them would too. Goldy merely because he's a declining asset and it's not like the Birds are gonna be worth a damn in 24 either. Arenado, while obviously a stud and locked up for a while on a good deal, would be the ultimate in selling at a high value. This team needs TONS of pitching, ML ready pitching. You're not getting it by paying (Birds current ownership never has) and you're not going to get it making the players available you said you'd make available.

I think the obvious are Montgomery and Flaherty. Then there is Hicks, who I think could bring a quality return. Beyond that, the only real pieces that are going to get you a quality return are Goldy and Arenado. Sure, guys like Dejong/TON/Noot would bring value, but nothing of real substance.

Let Walker play 3B (where he's at least an avg ML defender), Winn is your SS, Gorman plays 1B, Herrera is your C...and just completely hit the reset button. Hopefully the buffoons at the top can evaluate enough to get the return they need. But that could be a topic for a whole other thread.

All of these paragraphs...and I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of change there's no real noticeable difference in personnel on Aug 3rd.

 

[TadQueasy]

If they trade away Monty and Flaherty. Waino is finished. There is no real MLB ready pitching waiting. Unless they luck into some scrap heap guys next year who have some career years then this thing is going to get bad bad next season.

 

[Toots_mcgee]

I'm in the further minority. I'd move just about anyone on the current roster outside of Gorman and Walker. Arenado and/or Goldy would have to bring a HAUL, but I think either or both of them would too. Goldy merely because he's a declining asset and it's not like the Birds are gonna be worth a damn in 24 either. Arenado, while obviously a stud and locked up for a while on a good deal, would be the ultimate in selling at a high value. This team needs TONS of pitching, ML ready pitching. You're not getting it by paying (Birds current ownership never has) and you're not going to get it making the players available you said you'd make available.

I think the obvious are Montgomery and Flaherty. Then there is Hicks, who I think could bring a quality return. Beyond that, the only real pieces that are going to get you a quality return are Goldy and Arenado. Sure, guys like Dejong/TON/Noot would bring value, but nothing of real substance.

Let Walker play 3B (where he's at least an avg ML defender), Winn is your SS, Gorman plays 1B, Herrera is your C...and just completely hit the reset button. Hopefully the buffoons at the top can evaluate enough to get the return they need. But that could be a topic for a whole other thread.

All of these paragraphs...and I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of change there's no real noticeable difference in personnel on Aug 3rd.

I can live with your moves.
Gorman on first is a great call.
Donovan on second is a spark plug
Winn at short could be dynamic
Walker has been a third baseman
Edman is a utility superstar
Noot, O’Neill, and Platoon in the OF
Contreras can DH and be your backup catcher.

If you can’t get two starting pitchers (a 2 and a 3) out of Goldie and Arenado then you need to resign right now. Spend the salary saving on a #1 pitching free agent-No excuses. Mikolas is your #4 starter.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

If they trade away Monty and Flaherty. Waino is finished. There is no real MLB ready pitching waiting. Unless they luck into some scrap heap guys next year who have some career years then this thing is going to get bad bad next season.

Well obviously trading those guys and others would bet younger ML ready pitching with cost controlled years.

 

[TadQueasy]

Well obviously trading those guys and others would bet younger ML ready pitching with cost controlled years.

I dont think that is a given at all. The White Sox just traded Giolito and they got one pitcher back in the deal who is in AA and not expected to be in the big leagues until 2025. It sounds great to get back ML ready pitching, but that does not happen very often.

 

[3Rfan]

I dont think that is a given at all. The White Sox just traded Giolito and they got one pitcher back in the deal who is in AA and not expected to be in the big leagues until 2025. It sounds great to get back ML ready pitching, but that does not happen very often.

Surely there is more to the trades deals than I heard today. They got 3 minor league prospect pitchers for Montgomery and Hicks?

 

[MoSooner69]

If you look at what the Mets got for Scherzer.. there is no way you will get that kind of MLB ready talent for those guys...

 

[3Rfan]

If you look at what the Mets got for Scherzer.. there is no way you will get that kind of MLB ready talent for those guys...

I didn't expect to get someone like Sherzer, even at his age. If you do that you hafta be going the playoffs, or at least in position to get there right now. The idea was to get some pitching that can help at least next season, doesn't look to me like they did that. They traded away two MLB guys for 3 guys that "might" make it someday.

 

[TadQueasy]

Yeah they have no got anyone that is ML ready yet. And the reality is that unless they do something really unCardinal like and spend a ton of money on pitching next offseason then next year is going to be really bad.

 

[3Rfan]

Yeah they have no got anyone that is ML ready yet. And the reality is that unless they do something really unCardinal like and spend a ton of money on pitching next offseason then next year is going to be really bad.

Yeah I thought wanted help for next year, a couple of the guys they got are still at AA.

 

[oldroundballer]

Goold posted an article today. I didn't realize it was this bad. Here's the main excerpt. This basically says there's no pitching help in the pipeline. What they're doing now is simply trying to get some guys who might help at some point. That is likely a ways off. The only hope they have for next year is the guys they keep magically turn it around and/or whatever low hanging fruit Mo picks this winter turns out to be better than they should be. You know there's not going to be a couple of big name free agent signings. That would likely give us all heart attacks. Lol. And Dave Duncan is not around to help some has been have that one more productive season. The ugliness could go on for awhile.


After losing the minor-league season in 2020 to the global pandemic, the Cardinals aggressively promoted players for 2021. The results were unkind. Their minor-league affiliates combined for a .394 winning percentage — the fifth-lowest for any organization since 1963. Pitchers struggled throughout the system. The Cardinals’ minor-leaguers had a 5.22 ERA, and Baseball America calculated they were outscored by 708 runs. Two years later, when some those prospects should be rising to the majors, that deficit came due: The system could not provided the consistent depth the major-league roster required.
This season, the Cardinals’ top four affiliates have an overall ERA of 4.57, and individual teams rank above average. Where they sag is in strikeout rate — a defining trait for modern dominant pitching staffs. Two of the Cardinals’ top affiliates, in Class AA and Low A rank last in their leagues in strikeouts per nine, and all four are below average. per Derrick Goold PD

 

[TadQueasy]

So trade deadline here and gone. Anyone impressed with any of the moves? I am happy to get rid of Dejong. Never did like him. Surprised they did not trade an OFer.

But over all MEH MEH MEH.

The future is not good.

 

[Flint222]

I think Mo realized he wouldn't get the kind of return he hoped so he went youth and will call up a ton of players from Memphis for the rest of 2023. He;ll evaluate what infielders to keep or trade (Edman, Donovan, Gorman) and outfielders (O'Neill, Carlson, Burleson) and make trades in the offseason. I think he's also hoping one or both of O'Neill or Carlson will explode offensively in the second half to raise their trade value. But as of right now the Cardinals need 3 starters next year, since Tink Hence is still 2 years away. It's pretty sad.

Truthfully, Mo screwed up by waiting to close to the deadline to make his trades. He should have made his trades around July 26/27 - which seems like the peak time to make trades. By waiting until July 30, when the Mets announced they were trading Scr/Verlander, it diluted the maximum trading power he thought he had in Montgomery/Flaherty.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Donovan is out for the year. Just had surgery on throwing shoulder. I seriously doubt they move Gorman. He’s able to play a position well (2B) where dudes with power like him don’t grow on trees.

There’s no way in hell you’ll see three guys in the rotation that aren’t currently in the organization. The guys they’re probably willing to part with (TON, Edman, Carlson) aren’t going to give you anything in return.

2024 starting rotation…Mikolas, Hudson, Liberatore, Graceffo, and Matz. I’d be willing to bet LARGE amounts of coin that three of those dudes are the rotation. I’d still say about -125 that four are in it, and I’d say it’s only about +150 that all five are in it (at least at some point). My guess is they’ll “barely miss” on a couple biggish signings, then sign a piece or two of low hanging fruit that might eventually wind up in the bullpen.