Matheny petitions to change name to Schottenheimer

[oldroundballer]

ARGH. "They get paid" is a terrible reason to run your guys into the ground. It is the job of the GM, coaches/manager, and training staff to have guys in peak condition come the playoffs. That means considering whether playing Yadi nearly the most games of any catcher in the NL is a good idea. That means evaluating skipping starts for certain SP. That means evaluating how you use your bullpen. That means telling guys no when they press to play every day. Etc.

The NBA is all over this - the good teams like San Antonio are resting their starters more and more (both in terms of missing games and lowering their minutes played per game) so they are fresher for the playoffs and are less likely to develop injuries caused by overexertion. The dumb teams like the Bulls run their guys into the ground so they get hurt and so they are dead come the playoffs.

Resting is all good when you have the playoff spot wrapped up. But that wasn't the case in the NL Central. All 3 teams had to push their best guys to the max. Starters are starters for a reason. Bench players are bench players for a reason. Few teams have 4-5 starting caliber players sitting on the bench. Same with pitchers.

I'd venture a guess that if the Spurs were fighting for a spot they wouldn't be resting their best guys so much.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Resting is all good when you have the playoff spot wrapped up. But that wasn't the case in the NL Central. All 3 teams had to push their best guys to the max. Starters are starters for a reason. Bench players are bench players for a reason. Few teams have 4-5 starting caliber players sitting on the bench. Same with pitchers.

I'd venture a guess that if the Spurs were fighting for a spot they wouldn't be resting their best guys so much.

I agree your division and record matter, but you have to look for ways to keep guys stronger for the whole season.

Look at how Yadi declined this year. Look at how Rosie was dead by the end of the year. Look at the issues our rotation had even prior to October. Look at how run down Peralta was because his backup was so bad. You can make a good argument that our record would have been just as good by keeping those guys fresher earlier in the year.

I don't pretend to have "the answer" on this one, but I think it's terribly naive to pretend that running your guys into the ground is clearly the optimal strategy.

 

[oldroundballer]

I agree your division and record matter, but you have to look for ways to keep guys stronger for the whole season.

Look at how Yadi declined this year. Look at how Rosie was dead by the end of the year. Look at the issues our rotation had even prior to October. Look at how run down Peralta was because his backup was so bad. You can make a good argument that our record would have been just as good by keeping those guys fresher earlier in the year.

I don't pretend to have "the answer" on this one, but I think it's terribly naive to pretend that running your guys into the ground is clearly the optimal strategy.

I seriously doubt they planned to run them into the ground. But we had to win games and most of us agree the bench just wasn't all that good, especially with all the injuries. If there's fault it probably lies with Mo and not MM. A manager has to have capable subs to use. That's something that needs to improve. Hopefully it does.

 

[Neutron Monster]

I seriously doubt they planned to run them into the ground. But we had to win games and most of us agree the bench just wasn't all that good, especially with all the injuries. If there's fault it probably lies with Mo and not MM. A manager has to have capable subs to use. That's something that needs to improve. Hopefully it does.

Mo is absolutely at fault for not having someone better than Pete Kozma on his bench. At some point you have to ask if Cruz is a good enough backup, too, if they are afraid to have him start 40 games a year.

Harder to blame him for the bullpen, he did bring in Walden and he did trade for reinforcements there. The overuse there is on Matheny.

The Cards also have a medical staff that hasn't won rave reviews over the years. That's an area that may deserve more attention by the front office.

 

[vbsideout]

You guys are all wrong. This is how I evaluate things and it works because I have 62 years of experience which is more than most on this board. 1. I like Matheny = he is good 2. I hate Maddon = he is bad. It really is that simple. No WAR needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[runyouover]

You guys are all wrong. This is how I evaluate things and it works because I have 62 years of experience which is more than most on this board. 1. I like Matheny = he is good 2. I hate Maddon = he is bad. It really is that simple. No WAR needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You must be outside your mind Sideout.
Hop on the Royals bandwagon. I'll save you a seat.

 

[oldroundballer]

You must be outside your mind Sideout.
Hop on the Royals bandwagon. I'll save you a seat.

If he waits a couple years he should be able to get a much better seat.

 

[3Rfan]

ARGH. "They get paid" is a terrible reason to run your guys into the ground. It is the job of the GM, coaches/manager, and training staff to have guys in peak condition come the playoffs. That means considering whether playing Yadi nearly the most games of any catcher in the NL is a good idea. That means evaluating skipping starts for certain SP. That means evaluating how you use your bullpen. That means telling guys no when they press to play every day. Etc.

The NBA is all over this - the good teams like San Antonio are resting their starters more and more (both in terms of missing games and lowering their minutes played per game) so they are fresher for the playoffs and are less likely to develop injuries caused by overexertion. The dumb teams like the Bulls run their guys into the ground so they get hurt and so they are dead come the playoffs.

Duck now you say they SHOULD have skipped starts? Make up your mind baseball guru. The NBA is about like Hockey, nearly everyone makes the playoffs. If you HAVE to win games you better put the A team on the field. If they had rested starters and not made the playoffs I have NO doubt you would be complaining because they rested guys and lost games with subs on the field. You complained about the offense constantly and the offense was NOT the reason they lost in the playoffs. You said they need to rest pitchers then raised hell when they did. Apparently there was no way to please you so I guess Matheny should go ahead and do it the way that won them 100 games this season. BTW that great Cubs team is getting their butts handed to them in the playoffs.

 

[Duck_walk]

NM was talking about NBA, not me. Wrong fella.

I never said the Cubs were a great team. Ever. But Maddon kicked Matheny's ass. Just like the Giant manager did the years before and Boston's did in the WS. Matheny gets DE-pants come playoff time. So move on, 3R. It's football season. Yikes.

 

[3Rfan]

NM was talking about NBA, not me. Wrong fella.

I never said the Cubs were a great team. Ever. But Maddon kicked Matheny's ass. Just like the Giant manager did the years before and Boston's did in the WS. Matheny gets DE-pants come playoff time. So move on, 3R. It's football season. Yikes.

Yeah, I thought I was replying to your post to start with and somehow it ended up on NM's post so it was all mixed up. Maddon didn't kick anybody's ass, his players played well and Matheny's did not. I am moving on, it's almost basketball season. Jucos are playing preseason games and HS starts practice soon.

 

[Duck_walk]

Yeah, I thought I was replying to your post to start with and somehow it ended up on NM's post so it was all mixed up. Maddon didn't kick anybody's ass, his players played well and Matheny's did not. I am moving on, it's almost basketball season. Jucos are playing preseason games and HS starts practice soon.

I'm moving on. At least until tomorrow.

 

[vbsideout]

Top 3 teams chase each other all summer then fall in the playoffs. Hard to believe. I guess T Collins is the only good MGR in the National League

 

[Neutron Monster]

Don't be too results oriented. Managers don't play the games.

 

[Kenny56]

Cubbies go out without much more than a wimper. #maddoning

 

[3Rfan]

I'm moving on. At least until tomorrow.

Yu may not have said the Cubs were great but you have been bragging on their 'genius' manager. His team never led for even an inning in 4 straight games. If he was such a genius he should have figured out how to win a game somehow. But then most folks know that kind of stuff is pretty much out of a managers hands. All he can do is out the guys out there that brought him to the dance.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Yu may not have said the Cubs were great but you have been bragging on their 'genius' manager. His team never led for even an inning in 4 straight games. If he was such a genius he should have figured out how to win a game somehow. But then most folks know that kind of stuff is pretty much out of a managers hands. All he can do is out the guys out there that brought him to the dance.

You can evaluate the process and the decisions that were made.

In terms of evaluating a manager, that's more important than W-L, because W-L is so heavily driven by the level of talent of your team that it doesn't tell you much about the manager.

 

[3Rfan]

You can evaluate the process and the decisions that were made.

In terms of evaluating a manager, that's more important than W-L, because W-L is so heavily driven by the level of talent of your team that it doesn't tell you much about the manager.

He had enough talent to win 97 games and push the Birds and Bucs for the last couple of months. He had that same talent against the Mets and never had the lead, much less win a game. Not to mention he kept pitching to guy that was beating their brains out. That doesn't say genius to me.

 

[Duck_walk]

Yu may not have said the Cubs were great but you have been bragging on their 'genius' manager. His team never led for even an inning in 4 straight games. If he was such a genius he should have figured out how to win a game somehow. But then most folks know that kind of stuff is pretty much out of a managers hands. All he can do is out the guys out there that brought him to the dance.

I don't think any baseball manager is actually a genius. However, relative to Matheny in the post season there are some, whom I identified.

 

[3Rfan]

I don't think any baseball manager is actually a genius. However, relative to Matheny in the post season there are some, whom I identified.

Wasn't it YOU that called Maddon a genius?

 

[vbsideout]

I think I remember that 3r but I'm old