KC is the baseball town StL thinks it is

[Eagles_Ball]

I never asserted this. I simply said its easy to follow a team when there is success there. To deny this is comical. Like Rufus said, every sport, every city, every team succumbs to this. Im not sure about prior to the 2000s (I was less than 10 years old), but based on your numbers fans continued to support the Cardinals prior to their ascension to the top of baseball. I was simply pointing out that it is easier to be loyal to a team that shows success.

Totally agreed. No argument there. Much easier to get butts in seats with a winner. I think the real trick is to get them there when teams don't win. Tons of factors there. Market size, stadium atmosphere/experience, pre/post game spots in proximity, longevity...just a lot of things. I think that's where a team like the Royals (many others too) get hammered in the lean years. Not a lot plays into their hands in the down cycles. Which stinks, because I think that the K is a great place to watch a game.

 

[Kenny56]

Don't even try this crap

You have Bartman. I have Favre throwing across his body and a kicker missing his only field goal of the year. Royals fans get zero sympathy.

 

[Kenny56]

You must admit the Chiefs following is impressive considering their relative lack of success. However, I never admitted to be a Royals fan. In fact, Im not one and I won't claim to be even though I bought a Royals shirt last year for the first time and started watching their games. Doesn't make me a fan, Ive just enjoyed watching their success and the excitement it has brought to KC. And any excuse to be able to go out with friends and have a drink in the middle of the week.

Im excited for the guys that have been true Royals fans. The guys that said that "this year is their year" every year. Because it has finally happened.

Sorry that "you" was more towards the 75% of fans that didn't know KC had a baseball team until they were tailgating for a Chiefs game.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

CALLING B.S. on the attendance facts. Card attendance was dismal in 1980-81.. And then...oh, the fair weather fans of St. Louis showed up. 1980: 1.385 M 1981: 1.01 Million. (I know, strike season.) Then 1982 championship season. $2.1 Million show up. Great fans. Show up when you are winning. Proof positive that the bandwagon is alive and well in the third world city, we call St. Louis.

When the team has been middle of the road for a few years, so has attendance. Just like every other team.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

Sorry that "you" was more towards the 75% of fans that didn't know KC had a baseball team until they were tailgating for a Chiefs game.

When KC has won, the fans have always shown up. Just like the StL fans. Just like all fans.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

When KC has won, the fans have always shown up. Just like the StL fans. Just like all fans.

Royals didn't even draw 2M last year.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

When the team has been middle of the road for a few years, so has attendance. Just like every other team.

That's just not true...there's a link from earlier. Click around for the different teams. Sure, more people show when you win than lose. That's not really debatable. But take the Royals for example. Last year they did what they did, and were still below league average in attendance. But was still quite an increase over previous years. The only point I make, and I think what really irks some Royals fans for whatever reason, is those teams (I think the Birds are one of them), that have been around league average attendance in years when they're not in the playoff hunt, and tops of the league when they are.

 

[Duck_walk]

I've been to some Royals games over the years. My brother and I would buy individual game tickets and get incredibly good seats.
My brother is a season ticket holder in Stl and can't get seats nearly as close. Comparing KC fan support to STL is a joke dudes. From 1983 on the support in STL has gone thru the roof. That's 32 years.

When the Royals went to the playoffs last year I saw a lot of brand new Royals clothing in the stands. Bandwagon. They didn't even draw 2 million in 2014. Bahaha

 

[PlayerTwo]

Royals didn't even draw 2M last year.

In all honestly, the Royals were slightly above average last year throughout the season, it wasn't until the playoffs (where they snuck into the wildcard) where they hit their stride. I don't think the 2014 season as a whole is a good example.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

In all honestly, the Royals were slightly above average last year throughout the season, it wasn't until the playoffs (where they snuck into the wildcard) where they hit their stride. I don't think the 2014 season as a whole is a good example.

They were in the playoff hunt all year...and drew less than 2M. It's a perfect example. But to their credit, the fans continued to come out this year as the Royals kept winning. For as few playoff opportunities as the Royals had prior to last year, it was really surprising to me how little they drew.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

They were in the playoff hunt all year...and drew less than 2M. It's a perfect example. But to their credit, the fans continued to come out this year as the Royals kept winning. For as few playoff opportunities as the Royals had prior to last year, it was really surprising to me how little they drew.

Royals should have gotten a cheatin, lyin roid freak to up attendance.

 

[Kenny56]

Royals should have gotten a cheatin, lyin roid freak to up attendance.

They had Johnny Damon, Dye and Beltran in the outfield when I saw them in 2000. And still couldn't win and still had the attendance of a STL public school football game.

 

[runyouover]

When is the last time St. Louis played in back to back World Series? The 1940's? The Royals did it right.................now.

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

When is the last time St. Louis played in back to back World Series? The 1940's? The Royals did it right.................now.

Answer is already in this thread.

 

[revno]

You just cherry picked three years, and one of those years was a tad above league average. That's the point. Even when they're horrid, they can still pull in league average numbers. Only a moron would argue against more fans supporting a winner. I don't think that was ever the premise.

It's "moran"..

 

[HoldMyTrophy]

Who cares....really. I like both teams. My sons only like the Royals. We've been to about a dozen big league parks watching the Royals and wearing our KC gear. Only two sets of fans treated us poorly - in Cleveland and in St. Louis. And I'm talking about when we were just walking or sitting and minding our own business and then we get called out by some jerks. The Cleveland fans were the worst, initially yelling towards us "George Brett sucks!" over and over. Tried to ignore them and then it changed to "Joe Montana sucks!" which was actually pretty funny. This was in 2007.

Just disappointing how many Cardinal fans feel the need to throw negative comments our way when we're minding our own business, maybe even at a mall in Springfield or somewhere.

Future brother in law says to me, "I hear you're a Royals fan?" I say that's true. He says, "I'm sorry." I'm thinking, whatever jerk, welcome to the family moron.

Most Cardinal fans I know are much more classy than these examples. But I know it turned my kids against the Cards at an early age. And they don't understand how I can be a fan of both teams.

 

[Cards1968]

When is the last time St. Louis played in back to back World Series? The 1940's? The Royals did it right.................now.

Playing the history card, in particular the incorrect history card, isn't the best of moves unless you are a Yankee fan. Even then, the Cardinals have more than held their own in the head to head series match-ups.

Both are really good franchises. Both have rich history. What cannot be debated is which of the two far surpasses the other. Some may call me pointing that out classless, or 'BFIB' of me. So be it.

Also gotta love the attendance smack talk. I was in Busch II many a '70s day/night. I've also been in Kauffman when the Royals were bad not so long ago where Red Sox and Yankee fans outnumbered Royals fans. Comparing attendance figures from when both were bad is laughable.

Bottom line - St. Louis is a baseball town and the Cardinals are perhaps the furthest reaching regional franchise. Kansas City simply is not.

Enjoy the series. I know I have been/will continue to do so.

 

[Kenny56]

Man I bet it drove KC fans nuts when the Rams won the Super Bowl. Inferiority complex. I know a lot of Cards fans who are wishing the Royals well. Not sure you can say the same the other way around.

 

[Three Cents]

St. Louis Cardinal fans are like dating an attractive, yet insecure woman. They are very pleasing to the eye and you really want to be with them.
However, they must constantly be told how vastly superior they are to other females, or in this case, other MLB franchises.
At the slightest positive mention or complement of anther girl, they slash your tires, hit you with a 2x4 and file paper work for a restraining order.
It's just not worth the torture.

 

[Kenny56]

St. Louis Cardinal fans are like dating an attractive, yet insecure woman. They are very pleasing to the eye and you really want to be with them.
However, they must constantly be told how vastly superior they are to other females, or in this case, other MLB franchises.
At the slightest positive mention or complement of anther girl, they slash your tires, hit you with a 2x4 and file paper work for a restraining order.
It's just not worth the torture.

I don't know a single person that seriously claims the Cards are the BFIB.




I know a lot of people that seriously claim the Chiefs are the best fans in football.

 

[wccards21]

You must not know many Cardinal fans then.

Hell, I just looked at "On this Day" on my Facebook.....2 years the Cardinals lost to Boston, and my Facebook blew up with BFIB. Even got a GFIS (greatest fans in sports)

 

[Kenny56]

You must not know many Cardinal fans then.

Hell, I just looked at "On this Day" on my Facebook.....2 years the Cardinals lost to Boston, and my Facebook blew up with BFIB. Even got a GFIS (greatest fans in sports)

Or you just portray that as truth since you're a cubbies fan. Or you surround yourself with obnoxious people. Most people I know are along the line of thinking as those who post in here. The ones who laugh at the media or Deadspin and their BFIB BS.

Winning brings out bandwagon fans. Guarantee Wrigley was filled with people who had $$$ that wanted to a part of the Cubs playoff run. Going to a game at Wrigley is a social event. My best gal friend when to college in Chicago(CIA)and lived at the corner of Adison and Lakeshore Drive. You could literally walk out her door and you could see Wrigley. It was a gathering of legit fans and hipsters pregame'n before the nights festivities.

I think the point that the above posters are making which the numbers hold true. Even in the Cardinals worst years they draw pretty decent numbers. Compared to those of the Royals which put them in the cellar. If you take that as somebody claiming they have the best fans in baseball I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BlizzardX]

I'm a KC native. I remember my first game at old Muni stadium. I naturally hated St. Lou. I have pissed drunk on Stan Mus's statue. I lost my heart for the Royals when they couldn't win. My 3 son's took over for me. We'd be in last place, and they'd want to fight any fan that cheered for the visiting team.They started "let's go royal's" chant when you could hear the catcher fart in a empty stadium. I can't explain their passion for a team that sucked for 20 years. I was embarrassed for them. Thank God for the new Royals fans. I'm strictly a bandwagon.
I used to tell them that st. lou was a real baseball team along with the red sox and others.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

Attendance bumps usually come the season after a team has turned things around. It's common knowledge.

 

[Rufus R. Jones]

Let the Cardinals go 20 years

Or you just portray that as truth since you're a cubbies fan. Or you surround yourself with obnoxious people. Most people I know are along the line of thinking as those who post in here. The ones who laugh at the media or Deadspin and their BFIB BS.

Winning brings out bandwagon fans. Guarantee Wrigley was filled with people who had $$$ that wanted to a part of the Cubs playoff run. Going to a game at Wrigley is a social event. My best gal friend when to college in Chicago(CIA)and lived at the corner of Adison and Lakeshore Drive. You could literally walk out her door and you could see Wrigley. It was a gathering of legit fans and hipsters pregame'n before the nights festivities.

I think the point that the above posters are making which the numbers hold true. Even in the Cardinals worst years they draw pretty decent numbers. Compared to those of the Royals which put them in the cellar. If you take that as somebody claiming they have the best fans in baseball I don't know what to tell you.

without a winning record- their attendance would be as crappy as anybody else that does that, KC included. There is nothing different or "special" about Cardinals fans, contrary to popular belief in St.Louis. There's also nothing special about the Italian food in StL, or "St. Louis-style" pizza, which are other local "we are something special" myths.

 

[Kenny56]

Let the Cardinals go 20 years

without a winning record- their attendance would be as crappy as anybody else that does that, KC included. There is nothing different or "special" about Cardinals fans, contrary to popular belief in St.Louis. There's also nothing special about the Italian food in StL, or "St. Louis-style" pizza, which are other local "we are something special" myths.

But I think Eagles proved that theory wrong. Ned Yost was ripping KC fans last year and they were in the hunt all season. If anything the fact they were finally winning, you would think spike attendance, it didn't.

As for the rest, yea it's up to personal opinion. I would say you're thinking of "special" in the wrong way. If you sat STL style, Chicago style and New York pizza all by each other, they are all different. Which would make them each special in their own way(I prefer Chicago). Italian food on The Hill is fantastic, is it different or better than the food in Chicago or New York? Prolly not. It's just a good place in the Midwest to get great Italian food.

Again showing the KC inferiority complex. I don't get it.

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

1990 St Louis Cardinals 70-92 and finished 6th in NL East. Attendance was 2.57 million 3rd of the 12 NL clubs.
1989 Cardinals 86-76 3rd in NL East Attendance over 3 million. Tops in NL.

KC Royals have never been higher than 3rd in the AL in attendance. In 85 when KC won the Series, attendance was 2.16 million. Less than the 70-92 1990 Cardinals. The Royals had 2.7 million fans this year, a franchise record (Just 6th in the AL but still a franchise record). St Louis has surpassed that figure not only the last 18 years but 4 other times before that.

Let me repeat. The best attendance KC has had would be the 23rd best attendance St Louis has had.

Cardinals fans aren't supernatural and there are stupid Cardinals fans like every other fanbase but they show up for the games even when the team is losing.

I want the Royals to win this year but this stuff is just stupid.

 

[wccards21]

They also emptied out rather quick after watching Rizzo and Castro go deep in late September

 

[Kenny56]

I was just curious in thinking what the capacity difference was.

1973 Kauffman: 40,625
1960's & on Busch: 46,068

So in 1990(Cards) had 69% capacity filled, after some losing seasons at Busch.

Royals had 65% capacity filled at their peak in the 1980's(1985).

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

They also emptied out rather quick after watching Rizzo and Castro go deep in late September

I know it is Cardinals-Cubs but I have been at games in both Wrigley and in Busch between the Cards and Cubs when both teams were battling for last place and the places were sold out.

 

[LHSTiger81]

Yeah, but how many teams have actually won 2 world series games in one day? Disclaimer. I couldn't really care less about baseball, Cards or Royals. I consider myself a Chiefs fan and carry that burden as a result of the monetary investment I've made in overpriced beer, concessions and attendance in the past. It's much like being an abused spouse. I really should leave but they didn't mean it. They were just drunk and I probably did something to make them angry.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Attendance bumps usually come the season after a team has turned things around. It's common knowledge.

Care to support that with numbers? I find it hard to believe this years attendance numbers are reliant on last years performance. Oakland drew about 300,000 less this year than last. Wild card to bad. I'm confused. Shouldn't their attendance have been more this year?

 

[Duck_walk]

St. Louis Cardinal fans are like dating an attractive, yet insecure woman. They are very pleasing to the eye and you really want to be with them.
However, they must constantly be told how vastly superior they are to other females, or in this case, other MLB franchises.
At the slightest positive mention or complement of anther girl, they slash your tires, hit you with a 2x4 and file paper work for a restraining order.
It's just not worth the torture.

Uhhhhh the topic on this thread specifically targeted St. Louis. Good try though.

 

[wc3peat]

Royals fan since childhood thats been a while,..Anyone ever look up the size of the stadium or just mouth their attendance? They have the 26th smallest stadium in baseball. 9000 capacity lower than the Lou!! WIERD even when drawing huge crowds they would have a lower attendance. OMG

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Let the Cardinals go 20 years

without a winning record- their attendance would be as crappy as anybody else that does that, KC included. There is nothing different or "special" about Cardinals fans, contrary to popular belief in St.Louis. There's also nothing special about the Italian food in StL, or "St. Louis-style" pizza, which are other local "we are something special" myths.

If the Cardinals go 20 years without a winning record St Louis would be much diminished as a baseball town. winning the World Series 11 times has to be taken into account.

As far as food goes I think you can put KC barbecue up against anything so KC has that going for them.

Let the Cardinals go 20 years

 

[Rock Hard Corn Frog]

Royals fan since childhood thats been a while,..Anyone ever look up the size of the stadium or just mouth their attendance? They have the 26th smallest stadium in baseball. 9000 capacity lower than the Lou!! WIERD even when drawing huge crowds they would have a lower attendance. OMG

Gee, why might KC's stadium be smaller than some of the others? Been to about 50 Royals games. Maybe 5 of those in a full stadium...all when George Brett was playing.

This whole thread is jacked up. The Royals are about to win a World Series and that will be very cool but baseball history did not begin in August 2014 so no KC is not anywhere close the baseball town St Louis is.

 

[wc3peat]

Care to support that with numbers? I find it hard to believe this years attendance numbers are reliant on last years performance. Oakland drew about 300,000 less this year than last. Wild card to bad. I'm confused. Shouldn't their attendance have been more this year?

Oakland ended the regular season horribly and then traded 4 stud Allstars in the off season, Samardzija, Norris, Moss and most of all Donaldson their stud 3rd baseman. The fans knew what was coming for 2015. I'm pretty sure he hit the nail on the head. A great season builds expectations and of course brings new fans in everybody wants to be s winnrr

 

[Baldguy]

Let's be honest; professional sports are a product. The product has to be good for customers to buy. It also means a rich owner invested and hired better personnel. Fans can brag, etc, but they really do little to help the team (which isn't even made of local people) win, as the team usually doesn't have great attendance until they start winning. Someone simply invested to bring in the victories.

As for St. Louis, they can't brag too much, because it apparently takes the whole state building them new stadiums every decade to keep teams. Actually surprised the arch made it to 50; figured they'd be whining for taxpayers to build a new and better one of those as well.

 

[wc3peat]

If you fill a 46861 seat stadium at 65% and a 37903 seat stadium at 65% you have a difference of a half million over a season just sayin. As far as why is Kauffman smaller uhm I don't know built in 1973 compared to Busch in 2006. KC updates not rebuilds. Lack of space price of land may be cause but their stadiums are awesome why beat the taxpayers up when it's aight the way it is? Look at what the Rams are going through.

 

[Cards1968]

As for St. Louis, they can't brag too much, because it apparently takes the whole state building them new stadiums every decade to keep teams. Actually surprised the arch made it to 50; figured they'd be whining for taxpayers to build a new and better one of those as well.

Uhhh, let's have a fact check on who builds stadiums.

Busch III

Kauffman upgrades