Jose Martinez
- Thread starter Eagles_Ball
- Start date
In no way is it a bunch of misfits. In some ways, he's refused to play the correct guys (JMart until he put up All-star numbers...see Pham, Tommy first 6-8 weeks of season). The things that are completely controllable...baserunning, lineup, bullpen management, game scenarios...are all horrid. If you prefer to think results-based, so be it. The process is far more important. List the things he's good at...Good guy. Good in the clubhouse. What else???
I say if there is still interest in Pham after this season they better see what they can get for him. The eye issues are still a problem and he ain't getting any younger.
Winning baseball games. I know you hate the guy but success is success period. His teams win and compete year in and year out for the playoffs. You can tear him apart all you want and many of your points are well made, but if he is so horrible at every facet of managing why do they continue to compete at playoff level? Yes I do believe in results. If not why keep score and have standings. Let's just play the games and don't keep score or have standings and just grade the results by what the manager does.
Lol. The same reason most professional and elite college teams win games. Players. Do you really think Cal knows that much more about hoops than Kim Anderson? Or that Anderson immediately became a moron at MU and couldn't coach. Mike Matheny doesn't win baseball games night in and night out, players do. His performance during games ultimately has an affect on the outcome a fraction of the time. He's just really bad at those decisions he makes. And that's not a secret.
I don't pretend to think he is that good of a manager, but I think you just proved my point. If he has so little to do with winning and losing why do you blame him for every loss. Can't have it both ways.
I don't blame him for every loss. Or laud him for every win. That's results oriented thinking when his job has very little to do with results. He is awful at the process of doing his job. Which is what should matter. Being a major league manager is a long game type of position. How do his decisions effect things tonight, next week, next month, and even next season. TLR was masterful, for example, of that. MM is basically the polar opposite.
I give up!! You are right he is horrible as you say. So he must be blessed with the greatest players ever in order to accomplish the things he has accomplished. MO is a magician to get these kind of players to overcome all of MM horrible decisions. It's great to have Albert,Edmunds, Rolen, Carp, Walker ect. to put out there everyday. Oh wait that was TLR
No, if he were blessed with the greatest players ever, he would've won more. To only point to those offensive players is pretty short sighted. Want to compare the pitcher too? Or do they count? And his best years he had a really good Holiday and Beltran for the middle of the order. Do they count?
I gave in and said you win. You think he's horrible and I think he is above average and the answer is he is probably somewhere in between. By the way if you compare teams that TLR coached vs. MM I think you would have TLR having better talent in every situation.
And, in baseball, scheme is very clearly less important that in football or basketball. Is it that difficult to start your best guys? To pitch your best relievers?
The impact of a good vs. bad manager in MLB is miles away from having a good vs. bad NBA or NFL coach. You aren't calling plays.
You do realize you lose the player comparisons. Beltran or Edmunds, Young Holiday vs old Holiday Young Waino vs old Waino C Mart vs Carp rookie pitchers vs Suppan ect. Izzy vs Rosie Any other comparisons you would like to try.
If you think that TLR had better pitching than MM, I can't help you. The amount of good, young arms at MM's disposal has been damned near endless. And Waino was VERY good until popping the Achilles.
Izzy sucked. The birds only won because they finally replaced his arse with Waino. Watching that dude pitch was painful.
Last edited:
Lol. The Cards have played a makeshift and many times minor league lineup a lot of the year and are only 2 games behind the Cubs with 7 games left against them and all some want to do is gripe about the manager. This is the most exciting time of year when your team has a chance. And they definitely have a chance which is more than all those who know more then me gave them awhile back. I'm just going to enjoy the games and root for them to make it happen. Go Cards.
Because he was in pain. Waino came in and saved the day. You think Waino was a better option than what the Birds have now to save games.
There was a time when I might have agreed that Wacha should go to the pen but that was also a time I wasn't sure he could do n]any good there. To say that the way he's been pitching recently as a starter is just plain silly. Who would you like to have ahead of him in the rotation when your trying to push for a playoff spot in the last 19 games?
Dig deep into the stats instead of basing everything off the last game chief. Wacha is in the top 3 in baseball for lowest ERA in the first inning. For the season, the second time thru the lineup he is.......not good. But you can believe what you want and be as insulting as you want. Go ahead.
He was VERY good in his last start. 8 innings of shutout baseball and his last 2 pitches were 98 and 99 mph. I'll take that from him in September, most of us thought he may not even be pitching at all by now. I'm all about 'what have you done for me lately' when it gets to a chance at the playoffs. Don't even talk to me about stats the way you diss the stats others throw out all the time.
I want the hot hand on the mound and at the plate this time of year.
He was VERY good in his last start. 8 innings of shutout baseball and his last 2 pitches were 98 and 99 mph. I'll take that from him in September, most of us thought he may not even be pitching at all by now. I'm all about 'what have you done for me lately' when it gets to a chance at the playoffs. Don't even talk to me about stats the way you diss the stats others throw out all the time.
ERA?
Were you born an idiot or did it take time?
Last edited:
Stop trying to reason with him. He has the foresight of MM. Last start was good, I'll ignore the previous 15 or 20 examples. Hey look, Piscotty got two hits tonight, he must have turned it around from the previous 250 ABs. Smh...With Waino sucking and Leake gone, it's not easy to replace him with Weaver and Flaherty already in the rotation. I guess you could give Gant some run and see what happens. Problem is the closer can't be the closer if they make the playoffs. Be kinda neat if they made the playoffs and threw Wacha into the closer's role then. Don't really hafta worry about back-to-back days then either.
Gimmie time. I can tie it back to him somehow. Lol...I actually believe this is the correct path, at least for now. Not sure I'd have moved Leake, but that was definitely a long term play. I swear though, Wacha is my closer in the playoffs. If Flaherty holds it together his next two or three starts.
I think Flaherty is on a pitch limit so doubtful he will make the cut unless he is lights out his next couple of starts. If Waino can get 3 to 5 save chances before the season ends and he is successful then that might be their best option. (Big if)
You can't be serious. He's averaging about 1.5 runners an inning. His outs are pee rods right at folks. And couldn't strike me or you out. I'd love it if it came true, but there's just no scenario on the planet I see the Birds even giving him a chance at that. Can't risk it. I'd literally rather have any pitcher on the 40-man attempting to get outs than Waino. It sucks, and I hate it. But is what it is.
Notice the big if at the end. He knows how to prepare and would not be intimidated in any way. He has all the mental things needed to do the job. The physical is doubtful. MM has no faith in Lyons and there is nobody after that. Not sure what you have to lose except maybe a playoff spot.
I see you didn't mention Leake sucking for quite some time yet you didn't want him gone. Must the be a hair thang.
Leake has pitched pretty well for the Mariners.I see you didn't mention Leake sucking for quite some time yet you didn't want him gone. Must the be a hair thang.
Don't you dare compare Mike Leake's hair to Weeeeaaaaavs!!! These locks are just BEE-YOU-TEE-FULL. That flow is just perfect. Nothing like that trailer trash thing Leake had going on.I see you didn't mention Leake sucking for quite some time yet you didn't want him gone. Must the be a hair thang.
He's a bit of a product of really bad IF defensive range and his sinker being up the last month or so. Make no mistake though, he wasn't good the last month. IDK so much if I didn't want him gone. I understood the move. Just wish with Rosenthal done, they'd have kept him and concentrated on moving him in the offseason. That way Wacha could've been closing.I see you didn't mention Leake sucking for quite some time yet you didn't want him gone. Must the be a hair thang.
I agree with everything you just said. Just not sure the Birds have the margin for error to try it. If he could pull a 2002 Andy Benes, it'd be awesome. I remember watching him in first few starts that year and he couldn't get ANYONE out. Got "injured" for a couple months and came back when the Birds were hemorrhaging starting pitching. Learned the fork from somewhere. And all of the sudden was unhittable for about 5-6 innings every five days. It was unreal.Notice the big if at the end. He knows how to prepare and would not be intimidated in any way. He has all the mental things needed to do the job. The physical is doubtful. MM has no faith in Lyons and there is nobody after that. Not sure what you have to lose except maybe a playoff spot.
Last edited:
I believe it will be a huge mistake if they happen to make it to the playoffs using Niscasio as their closer and then think they can advance with a new closer once the playoffs start.
I think they just need to get there. If it's riding the arm of a guy you can't use, so be it. Just get in.
Not sure how anyone can disagree with this. Whatever it takes to get in. Worry about later, later.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
HSFB ended in MO one week ago BUT not nearly over in the Lone Star State- Latest: cardsfan200306
-
