I would trade a lot for machado. And I would move him to SS.
I like that idea more than most of the ideas tossed around here.
I do wonder what interest Baltimore has in letting him go though.
Jose Martinez
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I like that idea more than most of the ideas tossed around here.
I do wonder what interest Baltimore has in letting him go though.
They probably would move him for huge deal. Problem is, will you be able to sign him long term? You get him for 2018 on arbitration, where he is going to cost A LOT.....already at 11.5.
I don't think he signs with anyone long term on a trade deal. He hits free agency in 2019, for all the teams that will be involved in the biggest FA market in recent memory.
I probably wouldn't do the trade unless I were willing to give him $210 for seven years or something like that.
Certainly, he's a $200 M player, and a $25 M+ a year player in all likelihood. Given the Cards financial setup right now, they can afford to give one contract like that. Waino is gone after next year. Molina is only 3 more. They have a lot of wiggle room in the rotation with the Martinez contract + Reyes, Weaver, and all the other young guys. Really, when you look at what this team has committed for 2020 and beyond...this team can afford to give 18% of its payroll to one player.
My argument is I'd rather do it to a real stud like him who is under 27 years old and can play a premium position well. Why settle for a 33 year old slugger who may fall off the face of the earth in two years?
Of course, I have no insight into what it would cost, nor insight into what other options are there for restructuring.
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He's the type you give the blank check and say name your price. At that age.....doesnt happen often. Him and Harper will be paid, and paid very well
I'd take Machado over Harper at their likely contracts. Give me the SS over the OF.
Name one position Martinez can play where he isnt a hatchet man? Dude is horrible in the field.
Carp and piscotty aren't killing it and he has outhit grichuk by a fair amount
Plus the cards had a fair amount of OF injuries and issues this year.
I think you can question if he should have played more over voit as well
You can always sub him out somewhat early if you get a decent lead
Mike, is that you???
Dude could play SS the way he's hitting now. Much rather have Piscotty and Grichuk in the OF. What with their superior glove play...and Ks and baserunning.
You're being a bit obtuse here. Matt Effing Holiday played LF here for many years. Put him at 1B, LF, or RF. Overall, his play is an upgrade at any of them. He rakes, and on a team that struggles at times to score runs, he has to be in the lineup every damned day. No way around it. Everyone healthy...
3B--Marp
LF--Pham
SS--Dejong
1B--JMart
CF--Fowler
C--Yadi
2B--Wong
RF--Bader
Gyorko is super sub. If Bader cools Gyorko plays 3B, Marp to 1B, and JMart to RF. Piscotty or GrichuK play only if two guys keel over.
If we all take a breath and get real I think we know the Birds will never go out and get a Machado, Donaldson, Martinez, or Stanton, but it is fun to talk about and dream. Next years lineup will be close to this. They will spend the money on a bullpen arm and defensive SS because that will be the cheapest route and they can say they tried on the big names but the metrics just didn't deem it responsible.
Carp 1b
Fowler LF ( I hope they move him out of CF)
Pham CF
DeJong 3b
Yadi C (apply the Yadi rule)
Martinez RF defensive liability will have to come out in the 6th or 7th for defense
(Bader)
Wong 2b
New slick fielding SS
DeJong will cave under the pressure of batting 4th Fowler will be hurt off and on all year, Pham will have vision problems. Wong will be hurt off and on all season and we will be right back here next year wondering what went wrong. Ballpark village construction will be coming along nicely.
Carp 1b
Fowler LF ( I hope they move him out of CF)
Pham CF
DeJong 3b
Yadi C (apply the Yadi rule)
Martinez RF defensive liability will have to come out in the 6th or 7th for defense
(Bader)
Wong 2b
New slick fielding SS
DeJong will cave under the pressure of batting 4th Fowler will be hurt off and on all year, Pham will have vision problems. Wong will be hurt off and on all season and we will be right back here next year wondering what went wrong. Ballpark village construction will be coming along nicely.
If we all take a breath and get real I think we know the Birds will never go out and get a Machado, Donaldson, Martinez, or Stanton, but it is fun to talk about and dream. Next years lineup will be close to this. They will spend the money on a bullpen arm and defensive SS because that will be the cheapest route and they can say they tried on the big names but the metrics just didn't deem it responsible.
Carp 1b
Fowler LF ( I hope they move him out of CF)
Pham CF
DeJong 3b
Yadi C (apply the Yadi rule)
Martinez RF defensive liability will have to come out in the 6th or 7th for defense
(Bader)
Wong 2b
New slick fielding SS
DeJong will cave under the pressure of batting 4th Fowler will be hurt off and on all year, Pham will have vision problems. Wong will be hurt off and on all season and we will be right back here next year wondering what went wrong. Ballpark village construction will be coming along nicely.
This little hot streak will convince Mo we can stand pat because "the future is bright" with all these young guys. Carp, DeJong, Martinez playing D! ,Yadi another year older while the #1 catching prospect in baseball rots on the pine. Now thats a plan bro.
There was a discussion on 101FM about potential free agents not being interested in coming to STL because they dont want to play for matheny. I guess cardinals players have shared their disgust "outside the clubhouse".
You lost me at 101...Then gained me back when you mentioned others not wanting to play for MM. Call me crazy, but his way of going about things doesn't exactly match with today's athlete.
You guys can sign Zobrist once his deal is up. He's ultra conservative and would be MM new boy in the clubhouse.
I sort of wonder if they have to trade Kelly. I really don't want to but you can't burn 3-4 years of his service time like this.
They put themselves in an awkward position. If he is traded and turns into an All Star it goes against their standard operating procedure.
Yeah but if it gets you something good and you weren't going to play him anyway....
I just don't understand the point of promoting him to sit him for 2-3 months. Let him play in AAA. He has 41 plate appearances in the majors this year. He's been up for a month and a half. What is the point of him being up here versus some other random backup catcher? It's not current year wins and losses when the guy plays 10% of the time.
One person brought up the possibility of the Cardinals reassigning Matheny within the organization, hoping he will leave for another club so they can get out of his contract.
I rag on the guy a lot, and I'd like to see it happen, but I wonder how a new mgr could really play Kelly. Yadi wants to play. Yadi's good enough to play a lot.
Why can't the GM just send Kelly down to Memphis? Why did they promote him to ride pine?
Mean while Memphis continues to win under the guidance of our future Mgr. Stubby has to be considered once DeWitt sours on Mgr. if ever. Trade Kelly now while his value is at it's highest. There is no way he plays the next 3 years barring injury to Yadi.
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If you really believe Kelly is ready, why not let Yadi leave in free agency or at least limit him to a 2 year extension? The moves don't make sense in the aggregate.
The only real argument I can muster for keeping Kelly is that the number of non-steroid infused catchers in baseball who remained remotely good at 37-38 is pretty weak - especially those who have caught as many games as Yadi has. Ted Simmons fell off a cliff at 35. Johnny Bench was toast around 35. Torre was toast by 37 and he moved off the position years before that. Gary Carter was not the same player from age 34 on. Campanella was out of baseball at 36. Yogi's last good year was age 36. Some of his younger contemporaries like Mauer, McCann, and Russell Martin have already slipped a fair amount. Fisk is the only really good one who had great longevity that probably could pass a steroid test (i.e. ignoring Pudge and Piazza.) Even Molina is already showing slippage - his 2011-2013 peak is pretty clearly over. He's moved down into the category of "above average starter" from being a Top 20-30 player.
Yadi might be pretty bad in 2020 and even not that good in 2019. Kelly would be insurance.
Of course, this is really an argument against the 3 year extension (which really was a 4 year deal given how early we were in 2017 when it was signed.)
And evidently he hits .230 now, so he'd fit right in. Might need to K a bit more though.
Simple, any manager worth his salt would understand how to handle Yadi having a capable backup. It's not rocket science. I thought it was funny when Yadi tweeted (or IG, can't remember) after MM sat him, but it's the right thing to do. MM caving after, not so much.
Would assume they promoted him thinking MM would use him. I don't get the impression MO is a micro-manager in any way. The day-to-day stuff is definitely MM's to screw up. He does that amazingly well.
Biggest problem MM will not bench him and Kelly will ride the bench during what should be 3 of his most productive years.
I agree to a point, but he has kept them in the race this year under some severe circumstances. I don't think MM is as bad or as good as the fans react. I believe if he gets released by the Birds he won't be unemployed for long.
Define unemployed. I highly doubt another MLB team hires him as their manager. His reputation around the league is horrid. It's like everyone but the BFIBs know he's an idiot tactician. And unless you're a WASP, you probably don't much care for his personality either.
Eh, at least historically guys like him could find second chances, and a lot of ball teams/managers/clubhouse captain players are pretty overtly Christian to where his type of philosophy could fit well.
Tough to see him getting hired by a modern front office, though. Astros, Cubs, etc. aren't hiring a guy like him. It would have to be an old school GM/owner who likes his "veteran presence" and "World Series experience"
There's a Royals joke in here somewhere.
So you know his reputation around the league is horrid how? I watch MLB everyday and read several publications weekly. Where are you reading or hearing these things.
MLB network published a survey/report/something along those lines from maybe Ken Rosenthal (help me here if you saw it too) a month or two ago. Ranked the managers. Matheny was dead last. And he was managing a .500ish team. And they talked about all of his previous success. Not one of the guys in studio said a positive thing. When have you ever heard a national media member say anything positive or glowing about him in regards to game management? Just doesn't happen. The only STL media that don't question his every move are the ones on the Birds payroll. Twitter (media guys, not just rando fans) is also a nice spot to see what others think of him. Viva El Birdos have a few less than glowing thoughts as well. It's not like it's secretive.
I've seen and read all those things so I guess you are right. You might not know this but I like to drink and post
Joel Sheehan
I also just look at the face of the organization. When he has zero respect for said manager, why should anyone else?
Lol. I like to do drink and do ANYTHING.I've seen and read all those things so I guess you are right. You might not know this but I like to drink and post
That was it! Thanks. I remember the guys in studio saying something about MM being at the bottom and referencing the Birds "success" under his leadership. Lots of shifting and ummmms, then one of them said something about him not being the greatest tactician. Quickly followed by another saying how great of a guy he is. That's a kiss of death to me. Lol. No clue of what to do during the game, but damn, those WASP's sure do love him.
If Matheny and Ned Yost changed places for a month...Would anyone other than the hefty 50-something BFiB women that think MM is dreamy notice?
One of the MLB shows ranked him as the worst mgr in baseball. I posted a link on this website. You must have been on the sauce that day.
I know I drink too much and I have learned that MM has many flaws, but losing more games than they win is not one of them. This bunch of misfits MO gave him this year should be 10 games under and they are still in the race. Not sure how that can be ignored but I'm sure most of you on here will let me know.
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