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Is Southeast Missouri State's program in turmoil?

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MemphisTigerman

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2003
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All three assistant coaches leave, player defections, another seemingly subpar recruiting season, etc. Are the rats deserting a sinking ship? Hiring Guster out of West Plains was a smart move, but is it too little, too late? I was told that last season was supposed to the be the turnaround year, but the program instead got worse. I can't see much hope for next year for them.

Ever since Anthony Beane left there, the recruiting has taken a sharp turn for the worse. His last recruiting crop (Stokes, Short, McCuthison, Sanders) marked the last solid class Southeast has gotten. My bet is that Beane will be high on the list when SEMO searches for its next coach.
 
FEAR NOT! For help is on the ......................

............... way! Current Jacksonville assistant, Charleston native, and recruiter extraordinare Ronnie Dean will be named a SEMO assistant/recruiter soon. Just hung up with him and he says it's a done deal!
 
Re: FEAR NOT! For help is on the ......................

That is a good move for Garner because Dean is a very solid recruiter. I hope he has the chance to bring some quality players to Cape. The biggest hurdle for that staff will be getting through next season. I've heard from more than one source that only a significant turnaround will buy Garner another year after this one. Getting juco players is the proven track to success in the OVC. Dean and Guster can do just that. But if Southeast is at or near last place again in the OVC next year, I fear they won't get the chance.
 
Re: FEAR NOT! For help is on the ......................

SEMO has made steps in the right direction with hiring Guster and Dean. Both are excellent recruiters and given the chance, should make the Red Dragons (or whatever their new nickname is going to be) very happy. Too bad they got both these guys so late. I look forward to the players they'll be able to pull in over the next few years. If JUCO is the route SEMO has to take to get the ship back floating upright, I expect Three Rivers, Mineral Area, Moberly, West Plains, SW Illinois, SE Illinois, Wabash, John A Logan, SW Tennessee and NW Mississippi, plus a few of the Kansas and Iowa JUCO's to be put on Verizon speed dial........Can you hear me know?

An afterthought: Hiring Robert and Ronnie is like getting only two-thirds of the GAP Band. You can't have a group perform on the main stage and be 'OUTSTANDING' without the perfect lead singer. All SEMO has to do now is 'BURN RUBBER' quickly to get somebody named Charlie to replace Garner next year. Too bad Spoonhour is not available, I always liked him on the sidelines.

For those who are wondering, what the &*^% is he talking about —
The GAP Band consists of real life brothers Charlie, Robert and Ronnie Wilson. These masters of ol school funk have a long string of successful hits. Hopefully SEMO will be able to say the same in the coming years.
 
I am a little

worried my alma mater is in some trouble. It seems that the wheels have been falling off for a couple of years now, and maybe the changes can help the program get turned back around.

SEMO brought in a ton of JUCO players that will help what they have returning. One of them was my guy (Belcher) and he will help, so will some of the others. But, I am not sold that this class will get them back in the Dance next season.

Guster should be a nice fit, but a SNAFU will keep him out of the July recruiting period. Ronnie's deal may not be done by then either with the budget freeze and mandatory posting time for a state job could hurt the efforts in July. But, Ronnie is a great recruiter and will find a way to get it done. His hiring will help the chances of signing Gant (Moberly) and Farmer (Charleston).

3rd Assistant Kevin Williams departed to take a coaching position at Hancock HS in St. Louis. His replacement has not been named, and could be a big help to the program if it is the right person. Garner's son Matt took a job and will be out of the program, too. Lots of changes on the staff.

Good Luck SEMO and I hope to be watching them in the OVC Championship game in March!
 
Re: Semo

Hello All this is my first post!! Btw, you might want to check out ESPN.COM and the OVC Message Board. We need some new SEMO posters!!! Also, I created the site fearthesemospear.com and has evolved into a one stop shop of basketball links..

Anyways.. my thoughts on the Indians..

It has been clear that something has not been right with the Indian program since Tom Schuberth left for UAB. The chemistry has not been there. NOT saying Garner is not a good coach (think that is the biggest misconception of people on ESPN is that they think that I think Garner is a bad coach) but I think there needs to be some changes..

Not sure what to make of the mass exit of his entire staff. Some of it, I think was planned or forced upon him and some it is was leaving for other opportunities..

I can share one rumor that I heard a while back when I first learned that this was going down, was that Kevin Williams only left because Garner was not going to promote him from that limited earnings job to a full assistant. Garner just wasn't going to do it. Abner job hunting was probably the biggest shock I would say.. He was well liked by the players and administration.. I saw him as the next coach.

Someone mentioned Anthony Bene.. I liked him, thought though that he need some maturing before being in a position to be a HC. Maybe this job at SLU with Soderberg would boast that.

From everything I have ever heard, this is Garner's last season regardless. Win or lose. Win he retires on his terms, lose he retires on Semo's terms.

Spoon JR..WOW!! Never even thought of that one!! What a name. I think that SEMO will go with a YOUNG DII or JUCO coach, considering the fact that BJ Smith has done so well..Motivation to move up will be the key..

As far as this class is concerned..Not bad..not great.. I think Belcher is the best player of this class..and should really give Nelke all he can deal with for that starting point guard spot. Terrick Willoughby played well there at times during the season but really is out of position in my opinion. Now that Prather is out of the picture, I see the battle for the point going between Nelke and Belcher and Willoughby getting the two with Winans at the three.. Golson at the 4 and then a battle among five guys for that 5 spot..

I think SEMO will be better but I said on ESPN last year that I thought we were a Top 4 team for sure.. It will be interesting

GO TRIBE

http://fearthesemospear.com
 
Re: Semo

Welcome aboard, bdr!!

I lurk at the ESPN site and even check in on your site and the OVC site occasionally. You do a great job at your site. SEMO Court Jester posted here a few times several months ago, but has not been on here recently...

SEMO is down but Guster and Dean should help bring in some better talent. I'm sure Garner can coach, but sometimes I don't think he sets his sights high enough when bringing in new talent - it's almost as if he's still stocking a roster for Ft Hays...
 
Re: Semo

Thanks..

I think that is a fair critique of Garner..Here is what I find very interesting is that his new staff so far, would be primarly of Juco rank assistant coaches. Do Guster and Dean have DI experience at all, either playing or coaching? I'm wondering how guys like Winans, Hale, Nelke, Golson and Gonner respond.. I would expect that Garner will have to find some DI experience on his staff.

In my first post, I left Gonner out of the starting lineup because I believe that there will be some open competition for that last spot..in the end I expect Gonner to solidify that position.

SEMO has some matchup problems right now without a legit 2 guard and without a legit Center. You got several guys who can be placed in several different positions. At the end of the day I see a lineup of Nelke, Willoughby, Winans, Gonner, and Golson..It looks like our best lineup right now.

This James White will compete for time, this kid from Jacksonville they just signed will do the same..
 
What SNAFU

Coach CK,
What kind of SNAFU are you talking about when you are talking about Guster not being able to recruit in JULY? That would definetely hurt if it is the case..
 
Coach CK? Belcher

Coach CK,

Is my assessment on Belcher anywhere in the ballpark? Do you think he has a chance to contend for the starting PG spot? Granted, you probably have seen Nelke play more then I have seen Belcher to this point, but Nelke can't guard my grandmother on a good night..

Just curious to your thoughts.
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

Belcher never played the Point until he came to Flo Valley. But, he did a very nice job earning All-Confrence and All-Region honors both years (the conf. includes TRCC, MAC, Flo, Meramec, Forest Park, and Lewis & Clark).

He improves his PG skills a little every time he plays there, and will continue to do so the next two seasons at SEMO. He is a playmaker that has to be given some freedom to be a major contributor (especially on defense where he shoots the lane and gambles a little too much at times).

He is an excellent defender and rebounder....but I am a little worried that he doesn't completely fit the system. He needs to be able to gamble a little on defense and attack the glass, not quite the PG of Garner's usual philosophy (PG and SG get back and don't offensive rebound).

I am positive he has the athletic ability, skill, and head to play and be a contributor in the OVC. He is better now than former SEMO guards Mark Johnson, James Sutton, etc. that played when I was there. He isn't the shooter of a Curtis Shelton or the PG like Freshwater, but he is very solid.

From my understanding, Belcher is the favorite to start at the point. SEMO wouldn't have recruited another PG after taking Vianney's Paul Paradowski early if they didn't predict him to be a starter.
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

To be honest, I see paradoski redshirting.. That wouldn't be a bad decision. I think they would have redshirted Willoughby if they had the option to do so, but we were so thin that there was no way we could afford to do it. If Belcher can do two things, I think he can be very successful. One, take a guy off the dribble and create things (the basic tripple threat position: drive, pass, or shoot) and Two, be able to stay with some of the more athletic guards in the OVC. I wouldn't argue that there is an abundance of overly athletic guards in the OVC but enough to create problems if you can't play defense. Teams that are going to be favorites next year: TSU, TECH, MURRY, EKU all have quick point guards. Nelke is a good shooter of the long ball but he isn't very quick and struggles to create offense inside 20'.
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

the point is that i don't think either paradowski nor belcher is near the caliber of player as michael stokes(i realize stokes was very special at the ovc level) or even micheal morris or dewayne rutherford. and those are the types of athletic point guards you need to win in the ovc. it's more of a guard oriented league anyway. hopefully, our recruiting has improved a little bit for the upcoming season and will improve immensely in the future and get us back in the big dance!
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

Agreed..As much credit that Branson, Bunche, and Johnson got, it was Stokes that led us to the dance.. For the life of me, I don't know why still to this day that people around the Semo program feel that losing Branson was harder then losing any other Semo player.. People have been trying to replace Branson for 4 years now. The player we need to replace is Stokes..Our recruiting is starting to turn around but considering we lose 7 players at the end of this season (thank god the 5/8 rule is gone) were going to have to find some JUCO talent to fill some big shoes next year..That is why such an importance is placed on winning with this years club. It can happen. Its going to be tough but we have some decent role players coming in to provide much needed depth.
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

Stokes was the man that year. On a side note, I can't remember the name of it, but I used to have a PS2 game that had SEMO on it (obviously the names and numbers were changed, but the players looked similar or played similar to their real life counterparts) and Stokes was the man on that game. Nice game, you could even play in the Show-Me Center.
 
Re: Coach CK? Belcher

I have that game, It is a 989 Sports game. I know that there are several out there now and one of the new college basketball games has Semo on it. I think the ESPN College Basketball game does for sure, we were talking about it the other day. I don't know if the EA Sports game does. I think there was an upgrade to the 989 sports basketball game as well that had Semo on it.
 
Dude...

Garner has to go. He can't recruit. His recruiting class wouldn't fly at UMR or CMS--it really is that terrible! They don't really have a lot of talented players on the team at the moment. He's only being kept around because with a budget crunch they can't afford to fire him. Some of his coaching moves are a little puzzling, such as his inability to control Gonner at all and his fascination with leaving Hence on the bench, who I've always thought to be a scorer--something SEMO needed BADLY last year. You can't win without a PG or C, and they didn't have either (BG was not a good center--he couldn't score a bucket if his life depended on it.)
 
Re: Dude...

You are right SEMO just hasn't had the talent in the last few years to win. They have a great facility and play in a decent conference there is no reason that they can't have a winning program.
 
Re: Dude...

Hey Rumor..Good points on Demarcus Hence..During his Freshman season I said to a couple of posters on the ESPN Board that by the time he was a Senior, I thought that Hence would be ALL OVC Player of the Year...He had such a sweet jumper. The beginning of the end with Hence was the AP game on ESPN when during a blowout you could see a shot of Garner going to Hence asking him if he wanted to go in and Hence shook his head no and Garner turned away. Hence always seemed to be in Garner's doghouse. No matter what he did or didn't do, Hence took the fall for quite a bit, plus there were times when Hence was pretty lazy on the court and in the classroom. Giving him his props though, Hence had a sweet jump shot and could have been the all-time leading scorer in school history but was relegated to a marginal bench player...

As far as Garner..I have been pretty critical of him on ESPN...I think he should have been fired after last years effort. The fact is that it took 10 years to fire Mumford and he had one winning season. Semo just doesn't pull the plug on coaches. I think this will be the year to make it or break it.. Garner is a good coach but he needs some help and since Schuberth left, he has been lost on the bench and for whatever reason he hasn't been able to trust the staff he has and that has a lot to do with this "turmoil" going on with the program..
 
Re: Dude...

The thing that still upsets me about Garner the most was the failure to capitalize on the NCAA appearance with stellar recruiting classes. I know some situations didn't pan out because of grades and legal trouble, but some scholarhips were wasted on guys that were total busts. If a guy can't average double figures in juco, how will he do it in D1? (SEMO got several players like that.) It should be much easier to recruit coming off an OVC title than it is when you're in the cellar as we are now with a coach rumored to be on the way out. Nyah Jones, Terry Rogers, Daniel Weaver, Adam Crader, Demarcus Hence, etc. None of those guys (and I probably am fogetting a few other names) got any better during their time at Southeast. Either they didn't belong playing at that level or they weren't being coached very well. I just don't see the team getting much better this year.
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

Here is some background..back during our NCAA run and shortly after, I posed a question to some Murray State fans of all people and asked how they were doing with recruiting and was concerned at the time that it didn't seem that we had a plan on how to capitalize on our NCAA trip..what I started to learn was a couple of things..the basketball program allowed the admissions office to involve themselves with ambulance chasing kids around the country who saw Semo on CBS and wanted to come here..they started chasing kids in Oregon of all places..2)The staff did capitalize on the NCAA because every member of that staff went job shopping. Garner went on two interviews Colorado State and the Chicago Bulls. Actually he went on two interviews with Jerry Krause and was close to becomming Tim Floyds head assistant before Floyd was even hired...Bene and Shu hit the job trail hard and Keno Davis I think was pretty tied down with Summer Camps that recruiting took a backseat..3)Then the NCAA dropped the bomb with the 8/5 rule which really hurt..

From that point on, Garner thought that if he could replace Bunche and Johnson with Nyah Jones and Terry Rogers then the bulk of that lineup: Stokes, EMuccth,Short, Sanders, Demond would be enough to repeat.. Then all the legal issues etc..and the bottom fell off..

From an outsiders perspective, I thought that this is not the class that you want to bring into the OVC if you feel that your a last place team.. I really think Garner believes in his heart that this is a good team. I think he feels that he can coach them enough if they had a legit point guard who can defend. Its obvious that the idea of Hale and Nelke running the point wasn't a good idea.

From everything I have ever heard, Garner put a lot of trust in his assistants and they really let him down, so then he has taken on a lot of things he onced delegated out. I really worry that now that his son has left the staff that it could get ugly. He is going to have to have some guys he can trust that will allow him to do the coaching. At the end of the day, I think he can coach. I think Bene and Shu did a lot of the little things that allowed him to coach. The chemistry just hasn't been there....
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

I had forgotten about Garner's flirtation with the Bulls assistant job and with Colorado State. I do remember Schuberth trying like mad to get the UT-Martin job, and being runner-up to Bret Campbell. The musical chairs on the staff has had to hurt. The fact that all the assistants are leaving this summer sure does look bad, although I can't blame any of them for leaving what looks like an uncertain future at Southeast for better paying jobs elsewhere. As nice a guy and as good a coach as Gary Garner is, the wheels of fate seem to have lined up against him.

During the Southeast's couple of years of contening in the OVC, I played golf once with a guy who had taught at Drake University. He was a basketball fan and had been there at same time Garner was head coach there. He said Garner was universally liked there and had some decent success early on, but the program took a tumble he couldn't seem to turn it around. It seems the same scenario is happened at Southeast now.

You are right about chemistry and assistant coaches. Chris Lowery was only at SEMO for a cup of coffee then he bolted for SIU (can't blame him; it's worked out pretty well). John Daniel and Kevin Williams (both nice guys, but without much college coaching ambition) brought very little to the limited-earning spot, in my opinion. I don't think anyone seriously expected Bernsen to be around for long. Abner tried to recruit his tail off, but Southeast was already sliding down the totem pole when he arrived and his recruiting area of expertise--Kansas jucos--is recruited heavily by almost every program in the Midwest.

A solid Missouri juco pipeline, supplemented by a few St. Louis and Memphis high school kids, is the surest and easiest road to the top of the OVC. The talent is available. That's exactly how Southeast got to the dance the first time and it can get them back. I doubt it happens under Garner, but we shall see.
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

You are a wealth of information..You obviously know your stuff and have good sources and seem like your willing to share. Honestly, I've burned a few bridges through my "Anti-Garner" (Which really isn't Anti-Garner, its pro progress) stance on ESPN and since I no longer work at SE, my access to info is pretty limited. I try to post what I know or have on solid background. This site/topic has been a breth of fresh air!! I think everyone who follows SEMO basketball got a taste of the good life in 2000 and just want SEMO to be competitive on a yearly basis. Like you said, with our facilities there is no reason that we can't be.

GO TRIBE!!
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

I always hear the same old song about Garner. "Gary's a great guy and good coach. I like him, but...." I agree with that sentiment, but at some point, Southeast basketball has to be bigger than one man and the fans, students, and players do deserve to compete at the highest levels possible.

The media in Cape, and especially Mishow, seem to always paint a rosy picture about the situation, and I guess I can't really blame them. Marty has to go through Garner and the staff to get the access needed to report, so it would be counterproductive to rock the boat. The boosters I know that are in the athletic department's "inner circle" were told by the staff two years ago that this past season (03-04) would be the year the corner would be turned. Needless to say (after landing in the OVC cellar), there's been quite a lot of unhappiness.

I wish Southeast basketball had a discussion board with a lively, candid discussion about the program, recruits, etc. The only boards I've found seem to be pretty dead. Maybe there just aren't enough interested people, I don't know. You seem to think along the same vein as I do. I'm a U of Memphis alum and also a Southeast alum (master's degree), so my loyalties lie at both places. It seems that as the Tigers were rising, the Tribe started falling.
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

Memphis Tigerman...I have tried and tried and tried..to get some lively discussion going on..Two years ago this month I started the Fear the Spear site..and all it did was create a very..I don't know how to call it bitterness between the Semo fans that actually are involved in posting..We had a message board on that site and back in March I change the site again with a new message board forum and there have been zero posts on it..very telling..Part of the problem is that there are very distinct two camps in Semo land. The first camp that you mentioned that "Garner is a nice guy and blah blah blah blah blah." and then the camp that you and I seem to fall in that yes, though being a nice guy, there should be higher expectations. Its never about not being a good man or a nice guy.. For me, its put me in the middle of a bad situation becuase on ESPN, it makes me look like all I do is complain..well...if the shoe fits..I guess. I as well am not a undergrad alumn. I came here in the fall of 1996 to work for the university, and fell in love with the place. I guess I really liked Dale Nitschke's leadership style and the campus is really cool. It was a lot closer of an environment then what I was used to. I ended up doing my Masters at Semo and finished in the Spring of 2002. I now work for the US Department of Homeland Security at the Cape Girardeau Regional Airport.

The problem with message boarding is that there is not enough Semo fans out there that have the "gonads" to post that on sites like ESPN it only looks like there are two or three posters (well there are). The thing that makes me mad is that I know there are tons of people who support semo reading ESPN but don't have the courage to post. Maybe they are afraid of forming an opinion. Maybe they don't care. You get someone that posts like once and then you don't hear from them again..

Come over to fearthesemospear.com and get registered on ezboard and get some discussion started. I know by the site stats that there are people who visit the site besides myself, because the numbers are good on days when I am no where near a computer.. So I think if we can get some people interested, then we can get some discussion going.

I just know that we as fans have an obligation to Semo to not just be a rubber stamp and expect high quality. Southeast talks a good game about high quality and standards but its just my impression that they like to hide behind it as well...

http://fearthesemospear.com
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

There are still people (and a surprisingly large number) out there that contend that Southeast should have remained Division II, has no business competing in Division I, etc. Yes, being a D2 national basketball power would be fun (and we are still trying to compete in football with D2-caliber facilities), but nothing could match the excitement and enthusiasm generated by those two basketball trips to the OVC championship game and the trip to the NCAA tourney. There is no rational reason why SEMO cannot contend annually for the OVC hoops title.

I've been accused a few times of being in pro-Shumate crowd that longs for his return and sees nothing positive about Garner. I've found no evidence that such a crowd exists, though an argument could be made that Shumate left the program (looming NCAA trouble and all) in better shape than it is in now. There is a certain institutional apathy that persists in the athletic program when it comes to accountability for wins and losses. I am still stunned that they ever cut Mumford loose, even after years of lackluster results. When's the last time a Southeast head coach left for a higher-level position? Why would they? (Since you can coach forever here without the accountability for success.)

I have several friends on the Murray Sate side of things, and all of their fans I've met share one characteristic: they believe it is their God-given right to contend for or win the OVC title every year. A lot of that may come from the tradition, but it is the basis for way they do things and I admire that. Southeast draws more fans than they do, but as you say, the demand for greater success just doesn't come out.

I am encouraged by the fact that more and more boosters are seeing things the way we do. The old guard seems to be riled up about the mascot issue and maybe they'll start speaking out more. I'll be happy to start posting at your board; I have no shortage of opinions and can hopefully get some insider tidbits to share from time to time.
 
Re: MemphisTigerman

You bring up and interesting point about Shummate..Personally, I don't like that argument for myself because I was only here during Shumates last season and the brief interaction with him and his staff drove me bonkers. One of his assistants, I believe his name was Scotty McGregor, I had to deal with pretty frequent that first year becuase of break housing issues, etc and he was an utter mess. I didn't have a great feeling for those guys. So, I really cant be lumped into the "Pro-Shummate" camp.

I agree that DI is much better then DII. I see no reason why SEMO can't compete at DI, for the most part they do in other sports. Now, I do fall into a small camp of people that believe that SE should consider going non-scholarship in fb. I personally don't see the point or reason for poruing in so much money into a sinking ship like FB. We will see. Football is just one of those sports that the pie just isn't that big enough for everyone.

On the deal with Mumford, here is a personal story about a time I got my hand slapped in a meeting. This was good. Some of the people in student services were having an "I wanna be a sports fan moment." And someone who is no longer at the university that now works at a real football school (Michigan) made a comment that the reason they fired Mumford and hired Billings was because the university wanted to have a Houston Nutt moment and hire a coach that would take the school from worst to first in one year.. and I broke out in an uncontrollable laugh, I think I gaged on a soda. Needless to say that I was told to get with the program and keep my opinions to myself..I think the admin sees a vested interest in football, right now that interest is hindiring basketball.

Murray State, for all of their problems, and they have some, has a formula for how to be winners in OVC Basketball. They have to be respected for sticking to a plan and finding a way to win almost every year. Austin Peay is the next closest to having that type of plan but they seem to be good only for a few years at a time and then they have a slide back.

SE, I thought had that formula but something just isn't working. If you dig deep it is much larger then just Garner. I think it goes all the way to the top.
 
Ron Shumate

took the doormat of basketball and turned it into a DII National power. He did the same at UTC when he was honored as "NCAA DII Coach of the Year."

He laid the groundwork for a successful DI program and had a solid recruiting class committed before getting the axe. He was a bit negative and old school at times, but he could coach. I know, I spend two years as a student on his staff. He did a great job with a DII budget trying to make a DI.

The problem was that his staff got caught bending the rules, and people wanted him out. If I recall right, it was his last recruiting class that helped get things going in the right direction under Garner's coaching. One shot by Aubrey Reese from the DANCE.

It was Scotty McCowan that you were referring to in a previous message that was the 3rd assistant. He wasn't quite ready for all of the responsibilities when he came in, and he was learning on the job. That is the problem with SEMO, they don't treat the program like it is supposed to be DI. The 3rd Assistant makes $13,000 a year and a little off camps. When you don't pay like other schools in your conference, you don't get people with the experience needed for that position. The whole assistant coaching staff is paid poorly, that's why they always move on.

I think Garner is a good coach, too. I have watched his practices and heard him speak at several clinics. He does a pretty good job, and really knows the game. He was undefeated at the DII level for almost 2 straight seasons, so obviously he can get it done. The turnover, the 5/8 rule, and budget constraints have hurt their progress.
 
Re: Ron Shumate

I agree with your post entirely, CK. Shumate had a very solid coaching staff during the "heyday" of the mid-80's (Sam Weaver, Randy Curl, etc.). I wasn't really in the loop toward the end of his regime when the NCAA trouble arose, but I know the staff salaries have always been miserably low. I laughed out loud when I heard from a booster what Bersen was getting paid by Southeast. I can't speak for the rest of OVC, but I know Murray State pays their assistants pretty well for a mid-major. I also know that Shumate was about to turn the corner when he left, as you alluded to the success Garner had with several Shumate recruits.

We all agree that Garner is a good coach. With the right players, he can really make some noise in the OVC, as he did early on. Tough luck and some near misses have put SEMO in a hole, and I hope they can out soon, one way or the other. By the way, CK, do you happen to know what Coach Bob "Mad Dog" Nelson is doing these days? Just curious, because he sure was a character when he coached Forest Park.
 
Re: Ron Shumate

I thought Bob Nelson was one of the better juco coaches in the area. He had a top notch team one year. 3R went to Forest Park one snowy night about three inches on the ground. The winner goes to Hutch. Three Rivers had about 500 fans there. Forest Park had about 50. 3R won. Bob was really disappointed. He left men's bb and coached the women's team at Forest Park. He had some pretty good teams. I have heard nothing about him in several years. He would not be a young man. My guess is, he is retired.
 
Re: Ron Shumate

Mad Dog Nelson is one of my favorites. Cotton Fitzsimmons recommended him for the FPCC job back in the 60's and Nelson did a very good job. It seems like though once he left the Men's job for the Women's job his behavior became more bizaar over the years. He took the Men's job back over late in his career but never could recapture the old majic. I don't think he is coaching any longer. I went to FPCC back in the late 60's early 70's and had a couple of PE classes with Mad Dog and he truly was unique. The sad thing to me is that people will remember his late coaching days when he was more like a cartoon character but will not remember his earlier coaching days when he was a very fine coach. He produced many fine players and teams at FPCC.
This post was edited on 6/22 7:17 AM
 
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Toots_mcgee

Gun laws

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KANSAS CITY/POLITICAL CRAP BOARD
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