It seems like the noise for one is growing. IF there has to be one, I propose nothing less than 40 seconds. College just went from 35 to 30 and HS is not that game, just like college should not try to be the NBA and go to 24. 40 preserves a certain OCD-pleasing symmetry (minimum 12 possessions per quarter) and gives coaches and players time to run their stuff (if they so choose) since it is more about teaching and learning than Olympic-style athletes running, gunning, and dunking on each other.
HS Shot Clock
- Thread starter Green&Black
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I think the added cost to districts will keep it from happening, plus it is integral to strategy. Stalling is an art and quite useful at times.
I'd bet all the noise is coming from fans not coaches. They have voted it down a few times already.
I would be in favor of a shot clock (this is coming from a fan). I would not in any way call it an 'ART" but perhaps a useful tactic in certain situations. I have recently seen some teams whose strategy from the tip off is just pass the ball and not really even taking a shot when a shot is open. To stand and hold the ball to keep another team from scoring anymore points is not "playing the game" in my opinion & playing "keep away" for 32 minutes is just ridiculous; that isn't basketball, that is in fact, "keep away". OK, rant is over.
I for one would like a shot clock, but agree it's probably fans that want it more than anyone. A few weeks ago I watched a team start the keep away game around the 6 minute mark of the 4th quarter. It is a "strategy" (though I use that term loosely), and it worked by preventing the other team from getting into any kind of scoring rhythm. But as a fan it was a terrible way to watch what could have otherwise been a thrilling fourth quarter. Situations like that are a reason I hear frequently cited as a reason why people say they don't waste their time following HS basketball.
Having been to several games this year after hot really watching much HS ball in a long time, I will say that there have only been maybe 2-3 games where the lack of a shot clock seemed to have a negative effect on the play of the game.
I always hear the argument about cost of a shot clock. Is the cost really that significant?
Having been to several games this year after hot really watching much HS ball in a long time, I will say that there have only been maybe 2-3 games where the lack of a shot clock seemed to have a negative effect on the play of the game.
I always hear the argument about cost of a shot clock. Is the cost really that significant?
I would not like to see a shot clock at the high school level. If you dont like a team holding the ball, take it away from them. I love seeing the different styles coming together. No need to turn everyone to the NBA.
I'm in favor of a shot clock. Teams begin stalling early in the second half when they're up by 10 points. Get the clock to support a team to run a play and get off a shot. Teach student athletes that to earn desired results, you cannot quit until the clock says zero
"Fans" will put pressure on administrations to nudge coaches toward it, or make the decisions themselves. It will create lots of temporary business so state associations will probably like it for their partners.
But my question is IF we have to get one, how many seconds? I would personally never support anything below 40 seconds and anything above 45 would be completely unnecessary.
But my question is IF we have to get one, how many seconds? I would personally never support anything below 40 seconds and anything above 45 would be completely unnecessary.
Aren't teams supposed to play on both ends. If a team doesn't want the opposing team holding the ball perhaps they should get out and guard them. The shot clock does not encourage the teaching of defense.
It would take a national rule change to implement the shot clock nation wide as the NFHS regulates this. However states are allowed to adopt it on their own with a penalty that they will no longer be a voting member of the NFHS. I believe that is the penalty.
I love the concept of a shot clock. I've never liked the concept of stalling as a strategy. I understand it is not as easy as it sounds to stall but no one wants to see make no attempt to score for minutes at a time.
The implementation though I see a bunch of problems. Inadvertent horns, all the added arguments over whether a shot clock violation happened or not, etc. It is doable but there will be some growing pains.
The implementation though I see a bunch of problems. Inadvertent horns, all the added arguments over whether a shot clock violation happened or not, etc. It is doable but there will be some growing pains.
That was the exact scenario I saw. Have seen it twice this year. A team up by 10ish..not a huge lead but enough that it can be protected by essentially refusing to play the rest of the game. These are the games that make the crowd start to grumble about a shot clock. The slower pacing and working for a quality shot doesn't usually seem to annoy anyone, even if it takes a full minute or so of game play. It's exploiting the lack of a shot clock to avoid offense altogether that seems like bad basketball (for players and fans).
As for the time if such a change were made... 40 sounds good. That is really quite a bit of time and I don't see that driving "NBA" style offense, which I agree we don't want.
Get a shot clock, the added cost is minimal. The boring, walk it up, stall game is not entertaining- it is basketball at its worst. Does it give worse teams with worse athletes a better chance at winning to NOT have a shot clock? Yes. And that is why many fans, myself included, would like to see it. Same reasons the NCAA and NBA adopted it a long time ago. Because it is more fun to watch. Also more fun to play.
More fun for who to play? The disciplined team that works to set good screens and take quality high percentage shots or the super athletic teams with a run and gun set of skills? Some could argue that run and gun is done by coaches not teaching the game, but just blessed with more athletic kids.
Things people dreamt about when they were 7 years old:
- Dunking
- Making the last shot
- Sealing the game with a steal/block/rebound
Things no one dreamt about when they were 7:
- Holding the ball for two minutes to end a basketball game
I don't mind zone at all, and they have it in the NBA and in college. I have no idea why you want a variance there.
Zone makes the most sense at a high school level since the jump shooters are worse overall
The NBA at least limits what you can do defensively. All a shot clock would do at the HS level is increase the time in which some teams have to put up a bad shot. It widens the gap between good and not so good. Comparing HS basketball to NCAA or NBA is silly. Not the same animal.
it's the same game. There should be a logic for why the rules are different.
The point of a shot clock is to say that a team can't just hold the ball. If your team can't beat a zone, get better. There's no reason to ban zone defense just because you have a shot clock.
If your team can't stop the other team from dribbling out the clock, play better defense. Or don't fall behind in the first place. What's the difference?
One of them is agonizing for the fans and players.
Why are people so committed to making the sport less entertaining?
It takes real skill to run more than a minute off the clock without turning the ball over. Pay attention and see how often high school teams are actually able to do that.
that doesn't mean I want to watch it. It takes skill to perfectly edge a lawn. No one is showing up to watch someone else do that.
Billions of dollars are on the line to make NCAA/NBA more appealing to fans. HS...not so much.
And they have the ability to construct their own teams to be competitive. Most HS has to play who they have. Some don't have much talent. If they can slow a game down and have a chance to win good for them. I love an up and down game with scoring on both sides. But I'm also not against fundamentals, discipline and intelligence beating pure physical ability by controlling the ball and game.
Just say no to a HS shot clock.
NO, NO, NO shot clock. Coaches are NOT here for fans or parents entertainment. Coaches are here to win basketball games. So holding the ball or stalling is a strategy in most cases. In the games I have seen where a team held the ball, the team on defense stood there with their hands on their hips looking at the offense. It goes both ways. If the defense would apply pressure defense, most teams wouldn't be able to hold the ball long anyway. On the flip side, if a team is disciplined enough to hold the ball all quarter, then I would call them a well coached team. Another theory behind holding the ball is that it gets a more talented/athletic team out of their offensive rhythm.
I can tell you this. If I am up 20 and a team is sitting in a zone (this has happened countless times to me), I am forcing you to come out and play defense. I will hold the ball the rest of the game if you can't defend.
So, in my opinion a shot clock isn't needed. Apply some defense and teams wouldn't be able to hold the basketball long anyway.
Another argument. Instead of adding a shot clock, why not have make it where teams are not allowed to play zone defenses. That would make it more difficult to stall.
I can tell you this. If I am up 20 and a team is sitting in a zone (this has happened countless times to me), I am forcing you to come out and play defense. I will hold the ball the rest of the game if you can't defend.
So, in my opinion a shot clock isn't needed. Apply some defense and teams wouldn't be able to hold the basketball long anyway.
Another argument. Instead of adding a shot clock, why not have make it where teams are not allowed to play zone defenses. That would make it more difficult to stall.
But Neutron it is not the same game any longer. Just because the NBA decided to and college decided to does not mean high schools need to. Following your logic for adding it; Jr High and even pee wee basketball should add it. Nothing wrong with different styles at all. I just dont understand why people think things have to go up and down with constant scoring. People should learn to appreciate ALL aspects of the game. Some of the same feelings are why people want everyone to run the spread in football and chunk the ball all over the place... Give me a team that will line up and run the ball right at you and play solid defense any day.
Football uses a play clock. To me the analogy of a grind it out team on the ground in football does not square with a team trying to stall with a basketball. The better comparison would be a team that would run an offense looking for an open shot or lay-up at the end of a shot clock if there was one but at least looking to score.
It's probably not going to happen but a team can slow down a game with a 45 second shot clock. It isn't real high in my problems to fix in the world list but I'm just have never been a fan of a team trying to simply play keep away with the ball. If players want to do that then maybe they should play soccer. That seems to be the prevailing strategy there.
I used the analogy because of tempo only. Many times the same people that want the ball going up and down the field in one sport want it that way in the other.
People don't have to learn to appreciate anything. We have improved the game in many ways over time to make it safer and more entertaining. This is the kind of stuff soccer fans say about a 0-0 game or boxing fans say about a fight with no punches. They are usually really boring and no fun for anyone.
This is the sort of logic that would leave the high school game without the 3 point shot because "we're different" and other nonsense like that.
You have to win under whatever rules they give you. It's just one different rule. It doesn't change the coach's job.
I don't get why you would ban zone. For one, anyone getting stalled who is losing is probably leaving their zone anyway, so you aren't fixing a problem. And, second, I'm for giving teams more options for how to play. I think that keeps the game more entertaining.
This makes no sense; the shot clock rewards good defense because it forces the offense to take action even when they have not found an advantageous situation.
The shot clock helps out a good defense.
