How to make MSHSAA football Classes be competitive again!!!

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

So I was thinking about posting this over the offseason but decided to do it now. I know they’re been a lot of opinions about Mshsaa Classification and Private School Success on here. I know some of us want go 7 Classes, some of us want 5 Classes again, but most of us wants Classes divided evenly.

So I decided to see what it would like if Mshsaa divided all classes evenly but I put a spin on it.

Let’s say Private Championship success factor was different than it is now
3 Points- Move up 1
6-Points Move up 2
9 Points Move up 3

Class 1 (50) Notable Move downs from C2
Caruthersville
Portageville
South Shelby
South Harrison
Thayer

Class 2 (51) Notable Move down
Blair Oaks 😳
Strafford

Class 3 Move ups/Downs
Valle 😳-Move Up
Osage-Move Down

Class 4- Lil to no changes 🤢 except for Lutheran North Bump up to C5.

Class 5 Notable Move up
Lutheran North

Class 6 Notable Move Ups
Cardinal Ritter, MICDS, Eureka, Lafayette Wildwood, and Carthage

 

[Rawlathaballa90]

No thanks

 

[AC100]

It would solve a lot if the private schools kept moving up if they win the class they are in.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

So I was thinking about posting this over the offseason but decided to do it now. I know they’re been a lot of opinions about Mshsaa Classification and Private School Success on here. I know some of us want go 7 Classes, some of us want 5 Classes again, but most of us wants Classes divided evenly.

So I decided to see what it would like if Mshsaa divided all classes evenly but I put a spin on it.

Let’s say Private Championship success factor was different than it is now
3 Points- Move up 1
6-Points Move up 2
9 Points Move up 3

Class 1 (50) Notable Move downs from C2
Caruthersville
Portageville
South Shelby
South Harrison
Thayer

Class 2 (51) Notable Move down
Blair Oaks 😳
Strafford

Class 3 Move ups/Downs
Valle 😳-Move Up
Osage-Move Down

Class 4- Lil to no changes 🤢 except for Lutheran North Bump up to C5.

Class 5 Notable Move up
Lutheran North

Class 6 Notable Move Ups
Cardinal Ritter, MICDS, Eureka, Lafayette Wildwood, and Carthage

Just split them evenly.

 

[FootOnTheGas]

In order to make MSHSAA Football great again, some of us, any of us, someone, anyone...just needs to focus on making MSHSAA great again first...then we can focus on specific sports.

 

[sw5890]

The only thing that is wrong with the current system is that it includes a set of schools that operate with a different set of rules. Moving them up a class or 2 or 3 just makes it someone else's problem and sometimes there isn't another classification for them to move up to.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

In order to make MSHSAA Football great again, some of us, any of us, someone, anyone...just needs to focus on making MSHSAA great again first...then we can focus on specific sports.

New rule:

If your school has a member on the board, you can't have members on the subcommittees.

Appearances matter.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

The only thing that is wrong with the current system is that it includes a set of schools that operate with a different set of rules. Moving them up a class or 2 or 3 just makes it someone else's problem and sometimes there isn't another classification for them to move up to.

I've said that before in the success factor really doesn't change much for the privates. Cardinal Ritter at class 3 or 6, they still have the talent they have. Agree all it does is pushes the problem up to someone else.

 

[Justh.aFax]

New rule:

If your school has a member on the board, you can't have members on the subcommittees.

Appearances matter.

Stop Coach Bruto

 

[hangmanbobbyjaggers]

I've said that before in the success factor really doesn't change much for the privates. Cardinal Ritter at class 3 or 6, they still have the talent they have. Agree all it does is pushes the problem up to someone else.

I disagree. The championships have slowed way down after being moved up a class or 2. Valle won their first 3 championships in class 2, the rest have all been at Class 1. If they would have stayed in class 1, they would have won it every year. Same with CR and Helias as well. It does even things out when they move up into the play-offs.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

I disagree. The championships have slowed way down after being moved up a class or 2. Valle won their first 3 championships in class 2, the rest have all been at Class 1. If they would have stayed in class 1, they would have won it every year. Same with CR and Helias as well. It does even things out when they move up into the play-offs.

I guess I should say my opinion would be it doesn't make much difference for the "all star" teams some of the privates are assembling. These Ritter teams, a couple of the LN, St Mary's, etc. teams, they should have been able to win it at class 4,5, or 6. For the Valle type privates, absolutely it has evened things out. Certainly going to happen if your enrollment is under 200 students.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

They have access to over 500 students (minimum).

Let's hold off on the tears.

 

[Justh.aFax]

They have access to over 500 students (minimum).

Let's hold off on the tears.

Okay Coach Bruto.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

In order to make MSHSAA Football great again, some of us, any of us, someone, anyone...just needs to focus on making MSHSAA great again first...then we can focus on specific sports.

Hell, I'd settle for "slightly below average". That would be a vast improvement over the last 20 or so years.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

The only thing that is wrong with the current system is that it includes a set of schools that operate with a different set of rules. Moving them up a class or 2 or 3 just makes it someone else's problem and sometimes there isn't another classification for them to move up to.

Rack him!!!

Woof!

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Okay Coach Bruto.

Hey everyone, look, pay attention to this guy. He's super cool. He knows Veers name. He's awesome. Please, please, please pay him some attention!!!

Dork.

 

[Justh.aFax]

Hey everyone, look, pay attention to this guy. He's super cool. He knows Veers name. He's awesome. Please, please, please pay him some attention!!!

Dork.

Yeah, let's...

 

[J. Kane]

Hey everyone, look, pay attention to this guy. He's super cool. He knows Veers name. He's awesome. Please, please, please pay him some attention!!!

Dork.

 

[Justh.aFax]

If you are old

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Hey everyone, look, pay attention to this guy. He's super cool. He knows Veers name. He's awesome. Please, please, please pay him some attention!!!

Dork.

Narrator: "Except he doesn't."

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

Just split them evenly.

veer your a great person, but it’s a no in my book. If we split this year evenly, It will be about the same result we seeing this year but worst.

I already done split them evenly.
Class 1 it would be adding Caruthersville, Thayer, South Shelby as the top teams moving down,
Class 2 Blair Oaks, and Strafford moves down .
Class 3 Osage moves down,
Class 4 only 4 teams moves up to C5 and 1 move down to 3.
Class 5 loses 3 good schools to C6
Class 6 Eureka, Carthage, ( Lafayette Wildwood) best teams moves up from 5.

 

[Justh.aFax]

veer your a great person, but it’s a no in my book. If we split this year evenly, It will be about the same result we seeing this year but worst.

I already done split them evenly.
Class 1 it would be adding Caruthersville, Thayer, South Shelby as the top teams moving down,
Class 2 Blair Oaks, and Strafford moves down .
Class 3 Osage moves down,
Class 4 only 4 teams moves up to C5 and 1 move down to 3.
Class 5 loses 3 good schools to C6
Class 6 Eureka, Carthage, ( Lafayette Wildwood) best teams moves up from 5.

Once again, we see how stupid the idea is.

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

Once again, we see how stupid the idea is.

I agree with you on this. Nothing is gonna change. We just have to deal with 2 or 3 classes being weak in the future

 

[wahoolives]

I think if they get to the point where tinkering with the number of schools per classes stops you will see new powers emerge in the classes that seem to have a void. Classes 1 and 2 and probably 3 should see fluctuation in who dominant teams are if you are a public school talent comes in cycles and regardless of how great a system you have unless people are moving in consistently you are going to have some lean years along the way especially at the smaller schools, larger schools it is easier to be consistently good if the culture and coaching is there.

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

I disagree. The championships have slowed way down after being moved up a class or 2. Valle won their first 3 championships in class 2, the rest have all been at Class 1. If they would have stayed in class 1, they would have won it every year. Same with CR and Helias as well. It does even things out when they move up into the play-offs.

I agree with this. Honestly I don’t think CR don’t have a chance in C6 or Even in C5 if we had the level of competition like we did back 6 to 7 years ago. Same goes with Lutheran North. They got dogged by a Hillsboro in the semifinals last year. Lutheran North will not make it to a state championship game in Class 4 in the next 5 or more years!!!! When Valle moves up to Class 3 next year if they get all 4 points they be middle of the pack in Class 3!!!

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I think if they get to the point where tinkering with the number of schools per classes stops you will see new powers emerge in the classes that seem to have a void. Classes 1 and 2 and probably 3 should see fluctuation in who dominant teams are if you are a public school talent comes in cycles and regardless of how great a system you have unless people are moving in consistently you are going to have some lean years along the way especially at the smaller schools, larger schools it is easier to be consistently good if the culture and coaching is there.

Culture and coaching is the key ingredient for any size school to be consistently successful.
I've seen so many schools that don't know how or won't build a culture for excellence. They just wait on the 'great class' to come through and maybe win for a couple years then back to the abyss until the next 'great group' comes along.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

veer your a great person, but it’s a no in my book. If we split this year evenly, It will be about the same result we seeing this year but worst.

I already done split them evenly.
Class 1 it would be adding Caruthersville, Thayer, South Shelby as the top teams moving down,
Class 2 Blair Oaks, and Strafford moves down .
Class 3 Osage moves down,
Class 4 only 4 teams moves up to C5 and 1 move down to 3.
Class 5 loses 3 good schools to C6
Class 6 Eureka, Carthage, ( Lafayette Wildwood) best teams moves up from 5.

There can be no fairer way than to split evenly imo. You aren't babying anyone that way. You play who you play.

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

There can be no fairer way than to split evenly imo. You aren't babying anyone that way. You play who you play.

True True

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Once again, we see how stupid the idea is.

And trust me, this guy knows stupid.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

There can be no fairer way than to split evenly imo. You aren't babying anyone that way. You play who you play.

Don't forget to boot the privates first. Let them have their own organization.

 

[Justh.aFax]

And trust me, this guy knows stupid.

Yeah, I know you.

 

[J. Kane]

Don't forget to boot the privates first. Let them have their own organization.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Yeah, I know you.

 

[thetophat2021]

Bosko likey?

 

[Justh.aFax]

 

[Veer2Eternity]

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

So I was thinking about posting this over the offseason but decided to do it now. I know they’re been a lot of opinions about Mshsaa Classification and Private School Success on here. I know some of us want go 7 Classes, some of us want 5 Classes again, but most of us wants Classes divided evenly.

So I decided to see what it would like if Mshsaa divided all classes evenly but I put a spin on it.

Let’s say Private Championship success factor was different than it is now
3 Points- Move up 1
6-Points Move up 2
9 Points Move up 3

Class 1 (50) Notable Move downs from C2
Caruthersville
Portageville
South Shelby
South Harrison
Thayer

Class 2 (51) Notable Move down
Blair Oaks 😳
Strafford

Class 3 Move ups/Downs
Valle 😳-Move Up
Osage-Move Down

Class 4- Lil to no changes 🤢 except for Lutheran North Bump up to C5.

Class 5 Notable Move up
Lutheran North

Class 6 Notable Move Ups
Cardinal Ritter, MICDS, Eureka, Lafayette Wildwood, and Carthage

I regret making this post today. I honestly think MSHSAA should keep it the same. Dividing evenly will be almost the same as 5 Classes and 7 Classes won’t work either.

Here what 5 Classes would look like, yes I put effort on something that stupid

Class 1 (61) 0-225
D1 Caruthersville
D2 St Vincent
D3 Marionville
D4 Adrian
D5 Tipton
D6 South Shelby
D7 Milan, South Harrison or Polo
D8 East Buchanan or Lafayette Counnty

Class 2 (61) 225-397
D1 Valle
D2 Borgia/ Hermann
D3 Liberty (Mtn View)
D4 Fair Grove/ Strafford or STOCKON
D5 Seneca or Lamar
D6 Warsaw
D7 Blair Oaks
D8 Maryville

Class 3 (61) 402-673
Gave up (not in order)
Top 10
Lutheran North
Smithville
Nevada
Pleasant Hill
Oak Grove
Orchard Farm
Boonville
Central Park Hills
Kirksville
Dexter

C4 720- 1102
D1 Festus
D2 Cardinal Ritter
D3 Hazelwood East or Parkway North
D4 Hannibal or Warrenton
D5 Helias
D6 Webb City
D7 Carl Junction or Warrensburg
D8 Kearney or St Pius X (KC) or Platte County

Class 5 1108+
D1 Jackson or Eureka
D2 CBC
D3 Desmet
D4 Troy or Ft Zumwalt North
D5 Rock Bridge
D6 Nixa
D7 Lee Summit North/Blue Springs South
D8 Liberty/Liberty North or Park Hill

 

[cardsfan200306]

I regret making this post today. I honestly think MSHSAA should keep it the same. Dividing evenly will be almost the same as 5 Classes and 7 Classes won’t work either.

Here what 5 Classes would look like, yes I put effort on something that stupid

Class 1 (61) 0-225
D1 Caruthersville
D2 St Vincent
D3 Marionville
D4 Adrian
D5 Tipton
D6 South Shelby
D7 Milan, South Harrison or Polo
D8 East Buchanan or Lafayette Counnty

Class 2 (61) 225-397
D1 Valle
D2 Borgia/ Hermann
D3 Liberty (Mtn View)
D4 Fair Grove/ Strafford or STOCKON
D5 Seneca or Lamar
D6 Warsaw
D7 Blair Oaks
D8 Maryville

Class 3 (61) 402-673
Gave up (not in order)
Top 10
Lutheran North
Smithville
Nevada
Pleasant Hill
Oak Grove
Orchard Farm
Boonville
Central Park Hills
Kirksville
Dexter

C4 720- 1102
D1 Festus
D2 Cardinal Ritter
D3 Hazelwood East or Parkway North
D4 Hannibal or Warrenton
D5 Helias
D6 Webb City
D7 Carl Junction or Warrensburg
D8 Kearney or St Pius X (KC) or Platte County

Class 5 1108+
D1 Jackson or Eureka
D2 CBC
D3 Desmet
D4 Troy or Ft Zumwalt North
D5 Rock Bridge
D6 Nixa
D7 Lee Summit North/Blue Springs South
D8 Liberty/Liberty North or Park Hill

Not sure why you regret making this post we have covered this topic a lot and the best scenarios are split public private or 7 even classes with a champ factor.

 

[HBL Pirates fan_1990]

Not sure why you regret making this post we have covered this topic a lot and the best scenarios are split public private or 7 even classes with a champ factor.

I think splitting the Private/ Public the best way to go. I don’t think 7 even classes will make a difference either. My biggest issue for years now is Class 4. They’re is an always a differential issue between the bottom and top schools in Class 4. The point system is also concerning to me. I like it but it’s needs a little tweaking. I forgot what district it is but I know they’re a team that will finish 4th but they beat the team that will finished 1st or 2nd in their districts. The urban and suburban cities has the better use in the point system then most rural schools. Most rural schools in their conference play schools that either play one or 2 classes down or sometimes a play up in their conference. That’s why is hard to judge off teams if they’re really how good they are or not.

My biggest example is Hermann is having a great season, they’re a Class 2 schools playing in a Class 3 and 4 Conference. On the other hand Bowling Green definitely better than Hermann but BG will finish 2nd in districts but Bowling Green only play 1 team that they playing up in their conference.

The only good advantage with the point system is if your a 3 or lower seed district winner, you got the best chance to host the Quarters, and Semi’s at home.

 

[Cards1968]

Mississippi is in year 2 of expanding to 7 classes. Privates are separate. 5A is where you see the depth drop off. It's even more stark than Class 4 here. Keep in mind we're talking about 28-30 per class. Awful decision.