How long before the USA is in the mess Greece is In??

[Stevedangos]

Eventually it will happen, you cant just keep borrowing money and running up debt hoping its going to be ok. Every year more spending on borrowed money , more federally spondored welfare that has to be paid for on borrowed money. This is one of those things both parties are responsible for.

10 years? 20 Years, 50 years??

How long before we can no longer pay our debt??

 

[wcowherd]

Eventually it will happen, you cant just keep borrowing money and running up debt hoping its going to be ok. Every year more spending on borrowed money , more federally spondored welfare that has to be paid for on borrowed money. This is one of those things both parties are responsible for.

10 years? 20 Years, 50 years??

How long before we can no longer pay our debt??

We are a far cry from Greece. They have very little economy outside of tourism. They had rampant tax fraud. Their pension plans were insane. The U.S.'s problem isn't borrowing money. It's actually good to have debt. What's important is debt to GDP, and while we're on the slightly high side, that's pretty normal coming out of a recession.

Short answer: not in my lifetime.

 

[Duck_walk]

I just read an article at wsj.com saying that the amount of money this years NBA free agents signed for would more than pay Greece's late payment. There is no comparing the two. Funny you bring this up since Bobby Jindal said it this morning.

This is the scare tactic/drama you repubs have mastered.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Eventually it will happen, you cant just keep borrowing money and running up debt hoping its going to be ok. Every year more spending on borrowed money , more federally spondored welfare that has to be paid for on borrowed money. This is one of those things both parties are responsible for.

10 years? 20 Years, 50 years??

How long before we can no longer pay our debt??

Well if we elect another Republiberlcan it will expedite the process.

GOP president= MASSIVE debt.

Have to go back to Ike to find one that didn't.

It's amazing how propaganda influences people like you.

 

[Black&Gold82]

Well if we elect another Republiberlcan it will expedite the process.

GOP president= MASSIVE debt.

Have to go back to Ike to find one that didn't.

It's amazing how propaganda influences people like you.

Kinda like libs and the confederate flag?

 

[Duck_walk]

What propaganda BG?

Do you mean the secession declarations by most of the confederate states citing slavery as their primary reason. I don't think that's propaganda sir. It's history.

 

[Stevedangos]

We are a far cry from Greece. They have very little economy outside of tourism. They had rampant tax fraud. Their pension plans were insane. The U.S.'s problem isn't borrowing money. It's actually good to have debt. What's important is debt to GDP, and while we're on the slightly high side, that's pretty normal coming out of a recession.

Short answer: not in my lifetime.

Debt to GDP doesnt mean ANYTHING, unless the federal Govt has the entire GDP to pay its bills with that is

What matters is that right now we are spending $6 out of every $100 the federal government takes in just to pay the interest on our debt. What going to happen when the fed starts bumping up interest rates and people have better safe places to put their money than US paper. Right now treasury is paying what about 2 1/2% for money at 10 years,,,what happens when it goes up to 5-6% and $12 out of every $100 we take in goes to just pay the interest on our debt?

 

[Stevedangos]

I just read an article at wsj.com saying that the amount of money this years NBA free agents signed for would more than pay Greece's late payment. There is no comparing the two. Funny you bring this up since Bobby Jindal said it this morning.

This is the scare tactic/drama you repubs have mastered.

I dont think I have heard Bobby ever talk. I was reading CBO report.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/45684

 

[wcowherd]

Debt to GDP doesnt mean ANYTHING, unless the federal Govt has the entire GDP to pay its bills with that is

What matters is that right now we are spending $6 out of every $100 the federal government takes in just to pay the interest on our debt. What going to happen when the fed starts bumping up interest rates and people have better safe places to put their money than US paper. Right now treasury is paying what about 2 1/2% for money at 10 years,,,what happens when it goes up to 5-6% and $12 out of every $100 we take in goes to just pay the interest on our debt?

I'm not sure how much you really understand about economics.

GDP to debt is important because it measures the strength of the economy vs the debt load. If we're around 18-20%, that's a solid place to be historically.

The fed won't raise interest rates until the economy is back to a more stable position. The United States controls the interest rates, and they won't go back until the economy is more stable (read: GDP)

What places do you have in mind that would be safer for your money than U.S. bonds? There's a reason that the world buys our bonds. There's not a more stable economy in the world by a long shot than the USA.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Debt to GDP doesnt mean ANYTHING, unless the federal Govt has the entire GDP to pay its bills with that is

What matters is that right now we are spending $6 out of every $100 the federal government takes in just to pay the interest on our debt. What going to happen when the fed starts bumping up interest rates and people have better safe places to put their money than US paper. Right now treasury is paying what about 2 1/2% for money at 10 years,,,what happens when it goes up to 5-6% and $12 out of every $100 we take in goes to just pay the interest on our debt?

Thank your boys reagan and bush for all that interest. See...when you pass crap to appease your base (Part D) and go to war but don't pay for any of it...it ain't free ya buncha deadbeats.

Elect better republiberalcans or shut up.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Debt to GDP doesnt mean ANYTHING, unless the federal Govt has the entire GDP to pay its bills with that is

What matters is that right now we are spending $6 out of every $100 the federal government takes in just to pay the interest on our debt. What going to happen when the fed starts bumping up interest rates and people have better safe places to put their money than US paper. Right now treasury is paying what about 2 1/2% for money at 10 years,,,what happens when it goes up to 5-6% and $12 out of every $100 we take in goes to just pay the interest on our debt?

On the contrary, it means EVERYTHING. Thanks for confirming your lack of economic knowledge.

Taxes are raised on economic activity (income, sales, whatever). The amount of economic activity (GDP) is the #1 proxy for your government's ability to raise revenue, as well as being the limiting factor to how much revenue could possibly be raised (due to the damage which would be done to GDP by taxing, say, 80% of economic activity in total)

 

[Neutron Monster]

I'm not sure how much you really understand about economics.

GDP to debt is important because it measures the strength of the economy vs the debt load. If we're around 18-20%, that's a solid place to be historically.

The fed won't raise interest rates until the economy is back to a more stable position. The United States controls the interest rates, and they won't go back until the economy is more stable (read: GDP)

What places do you have in mind that would be safer for your money than U.S. bonds? There's a reason that the world buys our bonds. There's not a more stable economy in the world by a long shot than the USA.

US debt to GDP is a lot higher than 20%. Do you mean federal tax intake as a % of GDP? That's in the 18%-20% range, which is in line with historical norms

US debt to GDP is about 75%. Greece is 190%. As you note, that's a huge difference, which is compounded by the fact that Greece is in a depression and its population is shrinking (i.e. its GDP is declining). US debt to GDP is growing at about 1% a year under current conditions - we should want to get that trajectory changed to where it is slightly declining.

The US also is in a different position than Greece - it controls its own currency. Greece made plenty of bad fiscal policy choices, but the adoption of the Euro was also a major mistake that is dogging it to this day.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Debt to GDP doesnt mean ANYTHING, unless the federal Govt has the entire GDP to pay its bills with that is

What matters is that right now we are spending $6 out of every $100 the federal government takes in just to pay the interest on our debt. What going to happen when the fed starts bumping up interest rates and people have better safe places to put their money than US paper. Right now treasury is paying what about 2 1/2% for money at 10 years,,,what happens when it goes up to 5-6% and $12 out of every $100 we take in goes to just pay the interest on our debt?

This is really an argument that the US should refinance a large % of its debt to long durations to lock in the current low interest rates for stability of government cost.

The fundamental problem with paying down the debt is that ignores the societal cost of running a government surplus. It would take a material change in the tax burden/level of government services to materially lower the government debt. There's not a good reason to implement such a policy in a time of limited economic growth.

The US would be better served running a small deficit (1-2% of GDP on average) while letting GDP growth lower the overall debt/GDP ratio by ~1% a year on average. This would draw down the debt over time which allowing for the government to not have much higher taxes and/or provide much lower services.

 

[wcowherd]

US debt to GDP is a lot higher than 20%. Do you mean federal tax intake as a % of GDP? That's in the 18%-20% range, which is in line with historical norms

US debt to GDP is about 75%. Greece is 190%. As you note, that's a huge difference, which is compounded by the fact that Greece is in a depression and its population is shrinking (i.e. its GDP is declining). US debt to GDP is growing at about 1% a year under current conditions - we should want to get that trajectory changed to where it is slightly declining.

The US also is in a different position than Greece - it controls its own currency. Greece made plenty of bad fiscal policy choices, but the adoption of the Euro was also a major mistake that is dogging it to this day.

Yes, my mistake.

 

[wcowherd]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[Neutron Monster]

Graph uses gross debt, not net debt owed to the public. The latter is a more relevant measure.

 

[wcowherd]

The point is it's not "liberal" legislation that is driving the debt. Debt held by the public shows the same trend.