Do Private Schools Have Any Business Playing Class 1 Football?
- Thread starter Gubba Bump Shrimp
- Start date
I don't think they do. I understand they are small enough to play. I just feel it isn't fair for them to play in Class 1. I know Valle is the only one anyone cares about being in Class 1 because they are the only one that kills everyone. Class 2 would be perfect for the smaller private schools.
There are only 2 private schools in Class 1. Valle and St. Vincent. They both compete regularly against Class 2 schools.
It will be interesting to see where private schools stack up against the best Class 2 or 3 teams. We will get a look Oct. 1 when Valle plays Lamar. Mark your calendars for that one.
Okay. But I'm just saying move them up and make them play in Class 2. This being said, Valle has won 6 straight titles in Class 1. Last team to beat them was a very good Penney side my SENIOR YEAR. Back in 2009-2010. They should play in Class 2. Give other schools a chance.
I agree that private schools should never be in the lowest class of the state. Most private school are in cities that can pull people from anywhere, they may or may not recruit, but if I could afford a private school and send my kid there I would definitely considered it because of class size.. Small schools get what they get and sometimes they are fortunate enough to have two, maybe three classes of great all around athletes.
They have been to the last six title games. They have won the last three but also lost to Penney the game before that.
So just because someone has a sustained string of success they should be punished? Maybe somebody could just beat Valle.
I'm 50-50 on this really. One side Because we live in a world where give someone else a chance to win ! If you cant beat the best your not the best IMO... But there's that side of me that says what if jasper could offer kids from Lamar and Carthage some benefits to come to school here and be ball players how good would we be !? Valle would still be VERY GOOD in class 2 every year IMO and I might be one of few but I believe they'll play with Lamar !! Might not win but Lamar will know why their class 1 champs !! Valle killed a very good St. Gene team last year and their class 4 I believe.
Ps I only said Jasper Because that's my home town no other reason
Ps I only said Jasper Because that's my home town no other reason
- They're just saying that it's not a level playing field. We argue about this every year. And I think the disparity between public and private is most certainly accentuated with the smaller class sizes. But we have a system in place that has been agreed upon so we really can't fault any of the schools involved
In the early 80s, Mark Benson went to Priory from Valle and took them to the playoffs. He left soon after for the insurance/investment business.
First of all, that's not even close to the level of success and secondly Priory is private.
Has ANY Valle coach had the same amount of success somewhere else?
Valle was beat by Penney in '09 & '12
Valle won '10, '11, '13,'14,'15
Before that they hadn't won or played for the title since '95
I'm asking the question. Fill us all in. Since there's no advantage to their situation it must mean a coach leaving will win back to back to back to back yada yada elsewhere too.
I'm split on it personally
On the one hand, I don't believe in penalizing success or handicapping success.
However...given all the advantages private schools have (being selective with who they accept, no IEPs or at-risk kids, minimal behavior issues, etc.) those advantages become magnified.
To be clear Valle has earned everything they've gotten and run a class program (as does St. Vincent) and they are both clearly capable of competing in Class 2.
On the one hand, I don't believe in penalizing success or handicapping success.
However...given all the advantages private schools have (being selective with who they accept, no IEPs or at-risk kids, minimal behavior issues, etc.) those advantages become magnified.
To be clear Valle has earned everything they've gotten and run a class program (as does St. Vincent) and they are both clearly capable of competing in Class 2.
I would call him pretty successful. Not winning football games successful, but he has been very successful. (I should know, he is my uncle.)
He definitely IS VERY successful...he is my college roommate...which of his brothers or sisters is your Dad or Mom?
I coached at Valle as an assistant and actually had more success at a 1A public school in Iowa than we were able to achieve while I was there. The private vs public debate was rarely talked about up in Iowa.
Mark Benson was my college roommate and we Coached together at Valle for three years...GREAT guy and VERY successful in his profession. How is he your Uncle? By which sibling?
I'll take those answers as "No there has never been a coach leave Valle and have 'valle type success' in football at a public school."
If Valle needs to be bumped up a class for being continually successful...why wouldn't you say the same about Lamar or Webb City? Is it OK for a public school to be dominant but not for a private school?
Can Webb City or Lamar turn kids away for virtually any reason? Ultimately, private schools are playing by a different set of rules. Those advantages become extremely pronounced when you're a Class one private school who pulls from a Class 4 talent base.
And for the record...I think some Private schools do have an advantage over many public schools...but there are some prime examples of two public schools with great Coaches who have developed dominant programs in Lamar and Webb City. You imply that the Valle Coach could not have the same success if he went to a public school...could the same be said if the Lamar and Webb City coaches if they went to different schools? I would imagine all three would be very successful at other places...but duplicating the level of success they are having at their current schools would be difficult...no? My point? The tradition and established football culture in the perennial football powerhouse communities cannot be duplicated in just any other school or community...it takes both coaching and a great football community culture to produce a consistent winner. Places like Valle, Lamar, and Webb don't win just because they have more natural talent walking through the front door than everbody else.
Last edited:
So you're saying the Valle coaches could go to Crystal City, Chaffee, or Scott City and win multiple state championships with the talent available?
No...not at all. But not all Valle coaches have won. I do think Judd Naeger could go to Lamar or Webb City and win multiple championships. Are you saying there are lots and lots if Coaches who could go to Valle and duplicate what Judd has done? I think lots of people think that...but I am not so sure it's true. My point is that Coach Bailey and Coach Rod deservedly get a lot of credit for their teams successes...but Judd only wins because he's at Valle? That's not accurate or fair. Those three guys are all exceptional coaches...but I'll bet you that all three will tell you they are very fortunate to be in very special football communities.
I don't believe I said that, and I almost wrote last night that I hate this discussion because it does diminish the incredible job they've done there.
Prior to this incredible run, Valle had several championships, community support, and a storied tradition. Yeah it would be easy going from Valle to Lamar or Webb and continuing the success they've had, I'm trying to compare apples to apples and explain why having them in Class 1 gives them that much more of an advantage.
I'm the first person to say public and private shouldn't be separated, but to deny that they have advantages is lying.
Those advantages are diminished due to the multiplier, there's much less advantage with, say Desmet or SLUH who's enrollment is roughly 750 boys playing in Class 6 against schools who may have 800-1000 boys in their talent pool, than there is a school who may only have 60 boys in it (who apparently are given an interview to determine if they are allowed to attend) and come from a area that encompasses over 15,000 people, and an actual Class 1 school who may still have only 60 boys, but half of that 60 may have to work, or aren't athletes, or have mental/physical/behavioral issues that don't allow them to play, etc.
The multiplier is there for a reason, because private schools have built in advantages and shouldn't be playing against the Class they actually fall into. CBC would kill Class 4 teams (which is the Class they actually fall in). There should be an addendum to the multiplier rule that states, if the multiplier fails to move a team out of the Class it would be in without the multiplier, the team must move up to the next Class.
You make some good points here. I had to coach against Valle for six years when was across town at Ste Gen public...and is was frustrating because they were 1A and we were 3A and they were usually better...only beat them one time in 6 years. I knew the kids and the coaches and I knew they weren't recruited and that they weren't doing anything illegal. I also knew that a few of those years those kids far outplayed their talent level. They were well coached and had unbelievable attendance in the weightroom. Don't get me wrong...some years they were unbelievably talented...like 1988 with Ollie Siebert and Company. However there were a few years when they won simply won with just average talent because they were Valle and their kids expected to win...and many times their opponents were beaten before they ever even played. This happens more than you think. Some years Valle will overwhelm you with talent...but some year's Valle will beat you just because their tradition and history gets in your head. They don't always have the best talent yet they still continue to win...that is what I am talking about...coaching, work ethic, and tradition is a big part of it...just like it is at Webb and Lamar.
No doubt. No one is questioning the kids, the coaching, recruiting (which I don't think happens, at Valle at least), or community support.
The question is, should private schools, ANY private schools compete at the Class 1 level, given some of the advantages they have?
Focus on private schools, no one is talking about successful public schools, they play by the same rules as everyone else as far as district boundaries, enrollment, etc.
Small private schools have a tremendous advantage. Great example Lutheran
Saint Charles last year and will be dynamic this year. Why they brought in a
dynamic coach , who played in the NFL, he had 2 tremendous running backs
leave public school last year and he added another this year. If a private school
can get a dynamic coach the kids that want a chance to possibly play for a championship
team will go play there. Another case is Trinity they are loaded had a few kids
leave public school, they also have a great coach. John Burroughs, Westminster, MICDS
Priory up and coming Lutheran South all have good programs and great coaches. Large schools not as bad because huge public schools have great numbers and can usually
have enough good players to over come kids leaving for small private schools.
Saint Charles last year and will be dynamic this year. Why they brought in a
dynamic coach , who played in the NFL, he had 2 tremendous running backs
leave public school last year and he added another this year. If a private school
can get a dynamic coach the kids that want a chance to possibly play for a championship
team will go play there. Another case is Trinity they are loaded had a few kids
leave public school, they also have a great coach. John Burroughs, Westminster, MICDS
Priory up and coming Lutheran South all have good programs and great coaches. Large schools not as bad because huge public schools have great numbers and can usually
have enough good players to over come kids leaving for small private schools.
Unless I am missing something, I dont think anyone is saying they should be bumped up because of success, they want them bumped up for being private.
I am? I think if you talked to people who actually know me, they would laugh at that statement. I will defend them from the BS. But you'll never see me in Valle Blue.
Similar threads
