Clarification

[millerbleach]

OK Prophet Miller, with your biblical expertise, explain this religious dilemma I recently encountered...

A guy I grew up with just finished a 18 year prison sentence for drugs. While in prison, he became a self taught prison minister. We were recently discussing his religious beliefs, the Bible, heaven and hell, and sin. He said that organized religion, and Catholics in particular, seem to think that God keeps a scorecard on man's good deeds and sins, and if one's good deeds outweigh one's sins, then they will be saved. He said our life's actions have no bearing on whether or not we enter heaven. He said, just as John 3:16 says, that whoever believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as our savior will enter heaven. As someone who believes in the Bible, his view caused me to think about my own views. So I asked him knowing that he had inside knowledge of prisoners, "Do you mean that a person can spend their life murdering, raping, and stealing, and all they have to do is on their death bed, express their belief in Jesus Christ as our savior and they will enter heaven?" He said "Yes, the bible says whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal salvation, and it doesn't matter if you accept Jesus as a child, teenager, adult, or on your death bed, or what you have done in your life prior to being saved by accepting Jesus Christ into your life".

This conversation really caused me to think deeper about what I believe. I agree with his perception of Catholics, as I consider myself a non practicing Catholic. Catholics do seem to act like God is keeping a tote board of some kind, as good deeds are praised and encouraged as the path to heaven. Knowing where he has been and as someone who totally turned his life around in prison and became a prison minister, he witnessed hundreds of men who were hard core criminals who turned to God in prison and became changed people.

So there lies my dilemma. Can the most vile, disgusting, murderous people on earth suddenly find God at the end of their life and enter heaven? John 3:16 says yes.

Never saw this post before??????

No one deserves salvation. Salvation is unmerited and a total act of mercy from God. The only "scorecard" would be for rewards in heaven "achieved" after salvation.

 

[millerbleach]

So you do believe God predestines people for salvation?

Of course. God predestined before man was created that WHOEVER would accept his salvation would be saved. God CHOSE those people to be his.

 

[Sleepless_in_Jefferson_County]

Of course. God predestined before man was created that WHOEVER would accept his salvation would be saved. God CHOSE those people to be his.

Quit digging Miller, you're losing and looking dumb. Just quit while you're behind.

 

[Bogey Man]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he have his only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

A very simple verse with no need for interpretation. But does this mean that the most murderous, vile, criminals can repent for their sins at the end of their life and go to heaven, in spite of their sinful life? Very difficult concept for most to accept. Jesus forgave one of the thieves on the cross and promised eternal salvation. What does this say for the death penalty? Are we denying them a chance to repent, accept Jesus as our savior, and enter heaven? Maybe given more time, they would be saved.

I don't claim to know the answer. But after my conversation with my ex con friend, it has caused me to think about it.

 

[millerbleach]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he have his only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

A very simple verse with no need for interpretation. But does this mean that the most murderous, vile, criminals can repent for their sins at the end of their life and go to heaven, in spite of their sinful life? Very difficult concept for most to accept. Jesus forgave one of the thieves on the cross and promised eternal salvation. What does this say for the death penalty? Are we denying them a chance to repent, accept Jesus as our savior, and enter heaven? Maybe given more time, they would be saved.

I don't claim to know the answer. But after my conversation with my ex con friend, it has caused me to think about it.

It is sin that separates man from God not the "calibur" of that sin. Both murder and gossip are sin. While one has greater consequences (both in the Bible and mans laws) every sin must be forgiven the same way. Imagine the guilt a truly repentant murderer has to carry the rest of his life. While God forgives it doesn't mean the consequences of that sin go away. Adultery may be forgiven by your spouse but the ramifications still exist. Likewise the length of time a person lives after truly repenting is of no concern to God. I would caution that those at deaths door may be more receptive to forgiveness but may also be motivated by selfishness as opposed to repentance. God knows the difference.

 

[millerbleach]

They had 3 sons. We all know the 2 famous ones, Seth was the 3rd. The daughters don't get mentioned but the boys did have to marry them in order to multiply. I guess the girls grew up and moved away because it says the sons went into foreign lands and took wives. Not sure what a foreign land was then or what they did there since there were no other people at the time. Not sure when it became unacceptable to marry your kin folks either. Certainly no Bible scholar here.

If you read carefully you'll see there were 3 sons named but it says they had many sons (and daughters too).

When cain was driven out, he would most likely have had a family already (we aren't told what age Cain and Abel were when Abel was killed but they were farming in different ways). This family is probably the "foreign lands". Remember, we are talking a span of hundeds of years.

 

[vbsideout]

Adam and Eve (humans) screwed things up for everybody. Jesus comes back to give man salvation, but when he died he left the world in the hands of sinners (humans) There is much in the bible that is a very good way to live your life but the bottom line is that Jesus was on this earth for 20+ years. 99% of what we really know about Jesus is based on what Humans (sinners) tell us what we should think. As Rush would say I will choose free will! Not Limbaugh but the rock band

 

[3Rfan]

Adam and Eve (humans) screwed things up for everybody. Jesus comes back to give man salvation, but when he died he left the world in the hands of sinners (humans) There is much in the bible that is a very good way to live your life but the bottom line is that Jesus was on this earth for 20+ years. 99% of what we really know about Jesus is based on what Humans (sinners) tell us what we should think. As Rush would say I will choose free will! Not Limbaugh but the rock band

Is there a way to contact Bill the Mosports guy? I don't know what's going on but on my screen it says I'm on page 1 but it has posts from a couple of months ago and from last year.It's been this way fro a few days now. The only way I found this post on here was to click on the little flag in the top right hand corner which I just discovered tonight. This is only happening on the KC/PC board, the basketball board, the Cardinal board and the rest are normal.

 

[Wildcat98]

Bill the Mosports guy. mosportsstaff@yahoo.com