I agree.
They are in this
This season before Buck arrived would exceeded most expectations. If the participation is so poor in the younger age groups I don’t think you can blame Buck, at least solely for that.
CJ Football
- Thread starter Maxprotect
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I agree.
They are in this
This season before Buck arrived would exceeded most expectations. If the participation is so poor in the younger age groups I don’t think you can blame Buck, at least solely for that.
Buck has done some good things for CJ.
This string all boils down to a few points:
1. Buck brought immediate energy into a program in need that has great kids, but who as a whole hadn’t bought in or done the necessary work to succeed for a long time prior to his arrival.
2. Life isn’t fair - playing time is not a guarantee, but should be a recognition of a mix between effort, performance, and ability. HS sports = Extra-curricular. (Privilege).
3. Per MSHSAA point system currently in place a 2 TD win/loss is viewed no differently than a 70 point blowout. Reward the 2’s and 3’s who put in the time in practice with playing time if the situation allows win or lose if outcome is conceded. Maybe you only win 42-14 instead of 52-7 or heaven forbid they close to within 42-28 by scoring late on your freshman.
4. If the kids don’t buy into the program or stop buying into it; the program is doomed to fail miserably and everyone caught up in the conflict of pointing fingers looks bad by their involvement.
This string all boils down to a few points:
1. Buck brought immediate energy into a program in need that has great kids, but who as a whole hadn’t bought in or done the necessary work to succeed for a long time prior to his arrival.
2. Life isn’t fair - playing time is not a guarantee, but should be a recognition of a mix between effort, performance, and ability. HS sports = Extra-curricular. (Privilege).
3. Per MSHSAA point system currently in place a 2 TD win/loss is viewed no differently than a 70 point blowout. Reward the 2’s and 3’s who put in the time in practice with playing time if the situation allows win or lose if outcome is conceded. Maybe you only win 42-14 instead of 52-7 or heaven forbid they close to within 42-28 by scoring late on your freshman.
4. If the kids don’t buy into the program or stop buying into it; the program is doomed to fail miserably and everyone caught up in the conflict of pointing fingers looks bad by their involvement.
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That may be but playing Seniors in blow outs won't help that. You could argue about younger players but I don't think the talent exists now.
As already mentioned from my memory has always been a stat builder for his kids. Good running backs and QBs playing late into games that were over early with the young guys not getting reps to build a quality team. Regardless of talent, kids need experience. Buck wants a win now instead of building a quality program it has always seemed..
You never know how another coach would have done with that 5 year run of talent but he gets full credit for it. It would be interesting to know if we would be in the COC without it.
I was at the CJ / Webb game Friday and what stood out was the total lack of support from the community. There wasn’t 2 fans per player or band member there from CJ. I guess the 8 miles is just to much travel to support your kids. I also noticed Webb putting in JV players early. These kids get 4 quarters of JV work then a couple of quarters of varsity and everyone wonders how they just reload year after year. No need to reinvent the wheel CJ just copy what’s going on 8 miles east.
I just disagree that this is the issue. Some grades in high school now just do not have athletes. They could play 100 football games and it would not help. The issue is that WC gets Henderson and Weathers and other kids of that level who happen to live in WC and not CJ. No amount of work or coaching overcomes that.
Seems like Roderique does every thing he can to get kids playing time. .from scheduling 3 Monday night games to pulling starters and getting other kids in on Friday night
Ok. Let's say you took JRod and made him the coach at CJ right now. You tell him he can only have the kids currently enrolled at CJ from 6th to 11th grade to work with. No one can move in. How many just district titles would he win in the next 5 years?
The answer is zero and he would be below .500 every year. He would have zero college level players to work with.
If the cupboard is THAT bare getting a win in the COC the next few years will be a challenge. Are you saying there aren’t even any potential Division II level or NAIA level players?
There was an article in the Globe yesterday about Bucks thoughts on next season, I didn't gather that he is looking to leave. Not that I think he would even hint at such a thing. He admitted that they will need to put in a lot of work in off season but he said they've got a good group of kids coming back who got a lot of experience this year. As much as I like to pick at Buck's style I don't think he has much to do with the current predicament at CJ. If low participation IS because of Buck, I personally think that reflects negatively more on the community than Buck himself. But I could be way off base.
From what I've heard, I think the bigger issue is a tangled mess of parents, BYAA, the city, and the school district sports (including Buck) that aren't all on the same page, which over time results in dysfunction and low participation. Plus the fact that people don't move to CJ for football. They move there for Briarbrook, short-ish commute to Joplin or even Pittsburg, or maybe the high academically performing school system. But families that care enough about kid sports to relocate are only going to one place around here. It just seems hard to believe there truly isn't enough talent in CJ. I think it's there, it just isn't participating. That Arkell Smith from Carthage is a good example. He didn't play football until I think he was a junior. I think he just ran track but coach and his friends recruited him to try football and look what happened. Makes me wonder how many would-be star athletes there are around here in towns not called Webb City that never come out of the woodwork.
From what I've heard, I think the bigger issue is a tangled mess of parents, BYAA, the city, and the school district sports (including Buck) that aren't all on the same page, which over time results in dysfunction and low participation. Plus the fact that people don't move to CJ for football. They move there for Briarbrook, short-ish commute to Joplin or even Pittsburg, or maybe the high academically performing school system. But families that care enough about kid sports to relocate are only going to one place around here. It just seems hard to believe there truly isn't enough talent in CJ. I think it's there, it just isn't participating. That Arkell Smith from Carthage is a good example. He didn't play football until I think he was a junior. I think he just ran track but coach and his friends recruited him to try football and look what happened. Makes me wonder how many would-be star athletes there are around here in towns not called Webb City that never come out of the woodwork.
LOL If what works at Webb City is so repeatable, then why was ex Cards coach Thompson never able to exactly duplicate it at Republic or Kickapoo....
I don’t think he has ever won a playoff game as a head coach, at least not in Missouri
HUMMM..... I think he won several conference champs and took Kickapoo to class 6 semifinal in 15 I think.LOL If what works at Webb City is so repeatable, then why was ex Cards coach Thompson never able to exactly duplicate it at Republic or Kickapoo....
LOL If what works at Webb City is so repeatable, then why was ex Cards coach Thompson never able to exactly duplicate it at Republic or Kickapoo....
Kurt and John would both tell you that what has been happening at WC over the past few decades is not just about the coaching. None of what they have works without every intrical component. They would probably consider themselves only a small portion of the overall success. Everyone wants to succeed, but not everyone uses a good working definition of what that is and inaffectively focus on wins and losses as the measuring stick of success. In short, it’s about striving to be better than you were yesterday. Winning is a bi-product of succeeding.
Exactly what Webb has may never be repeatable at another school. No matter how many 2's and 3's you play in the second half.
This is my answer. People move their kids to WC in 5th or 6th grade if they are good football players. No one has to ask them to. They just do it. There is nothing wrong with it but at the same time WC is not playing the same game as everyone else.And that comes close to what Webb has done how?
It's hard to believe that with classes in CJ having approximately 225-250 students, and half of them boys, that there is absolutely no talent there. Out of maybe 450 boys in high school, you would think that a GOOD coach could put a team together on a yearly basis that would be competitive at the Class 4 level.
Don't just pick on CJ, look at all the schools in the COC, there are 2 class 6 schools, several class 5 schools with probable double the boys walking the halls and out of all them schools none of them could beat Webb this year. And most years they have enough trouble stopping Webb from putting the running clock on them. One of those class 6 school only won one game this year. You would think out of all those larger schools at least yearly somebody would push Webb or beat them, but it never happens. It is just hard sometimes when you have the top dog in your conference less alone in your own back yard like CJ does no matter who you have coaching.
I think last week in the podcast John was talking about how unselfish our starting backs were because some games they each might just get 5-6 carries each before subs start going in the game. We almost never have a back with gigantic numbers
Talent is in the halls, but they don’t get the numbers out for the season they should based on enrollment size so it makes them play both ways a lot and wears them out over the course of a season. Injuries harder to overcome when you don t have a deep bench.
Bull. They get some occasional next level athletes but all and all for Roderique’s run it’s been getting every ounce of potential out of his players. There is a ridiculous amount of sub par athletes that have made 1st team all state. Talkin 170 lb line backers galore.
This opinion is HUMBLE:
On paper? Only ???? maybe one. Two at most. Because the drumbeat would take a little time to pay dividends that big.
But?
In the current world?
It might pay much more! Maybe 3 or 4 DISTRICT titles.
Based a lot on what a Coach Rod would do for a community and their mindset and morale.
That's not a knock on Buck.
I think Buck knows football. And he obviously loves coaching.
But, he's not great with human interaction. That hasn't always been important in coaching. It is now. For better or worse.
Coach Rod is aces with winning attitudes and mindsets ... if you can get almost 100% from your athletes? This winning persona brings along the community and helps prepare for future success.
This is exactly what I think. I think this game is played primarily with what you've got above the neck at this level.
Webb City has a Podcast? Didnt know that?
How is it? I might have to check it out. @BoosterBosko did you know this ?
From what I have read. If you are a Webb person you love it. If not it is a good place to get some bulletin board material.
Yes Stef. There is another thread on here, and I have asked several times if the Doc Guys have gotten a mention. I am hoping this will be the week!!!
