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Why does NCAA D1 teams like Mizzou and others don't recruit in smaller public high school ?

H

HBL Pirates fan_1990

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Oct 18, 2017
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They're are good football athletes from Missouri not getting offers from NCAA teams. Westmoreland from Joplin might be the best receiver prospect in Missouri but got one offer from a D1 school.

Can you think of football athletes class 1- 4 right now that should be getting D1 offers and a 3 star rating or more? They must be from a public school

Players from class 1 to 4 to get signed by a NCAA D1 team in the past Decade.

Rafe Peavey Bolivar Arkansas 4 stars

Kony Ealy New Madrid Missouri 4 stars NFL

Marquis Doherty Winnetonka Missouri 4 stars

Jalani Williams Parkway North Missouri 4 stars

C.J Boone Parkway North 3 Stars Missouri 3 stars

Cale Garret Kearney Missouri 3 stars

Tanner Owen Kearney Missouri 3 Stars

Trystan Castillo Webb City Missouri 3 stars

Antar Thompson Maplewood-Richmond Heights Missouri 3 Stars

Nate Howard Ladue Missouri 3 Stars

Jehu Chesson Ladue Michigan 3 stars NFL

Maliek Collins Center (Kcity) Nebraska 3 stars NFL

Moses Okpala Ladue Illinois 3 Stars

Dylan Powell Hannibal Stanford 3 Stars

Shane Clenin Festus Arkansas 3 Stars

Grant Norton Camdenton Minnesota 3 Stars

Derrick Mitchell Jr Vashon Iowa 3 Stars

Brandon Bourbon Potosi Kansas 3 Stars

Ivory Winters Hayti Indiana 3 stars
 
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Westmoreland visited Mizzou last year. his dad sent me a photo of him in a mizzou uniform during the visit. Davis and him also posted pics at ksu after a playoff game on Instagram. believe it was after this years Kirkwood game.
 
- Beaman, QB from Lincoln, Class 1 POY, signed a baseball scholarship at MU. Does that count?
 
They're is always great talent every year in smaller public schools but they get overlook. There are 2 junior on Hannibal that should be getting look at. Running back Damien French is 6'2 200 he has ran over 300 carries 3094 yds and 44 TD's in 3 seasons. He's a up the gut runner with speed and moves.
 
Mostly because there are very few kids at small schools that are big enough and fast enough to play division 1 football. Just like there are very few kids from small public schools in Missouri that play division 1 in any sport.
 
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wahoolives said:
Mostly because there are very few kids at small schools that are big enough and fast enough to play division 1 football. Just like there are very few kids from small public schools in Missouri that play division 1 in any sport.
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Last 30 years Webb has sent 8 kids to major D1 schools. If you are good enough they don’t give a damn what size school you are from
 
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Smaller schools do on occasion have players who are over looked. They have the required Height,Speed, and weight ratio to play Division 1. But the problem is that they get less exposure because they play against lesser competition and thus making it harder to evaluate them. They tend not to go to Division 1 team camps as well. They don't get the Development in small programs that athletes do in bigger programs do to funding, facilities and size of coaching staffs. Plus They often don't develop the work ethic needed because they dominate with less effort do to the lesser talent they face on their own squad and with the competition they face on Friday's.

Then do to those factors many P5 coaches are reluctant to offer those players a scholarship, wanting them to take the preferred walk-on route and try and earn a schollie, saving a full ride for more high profile players from bigger programs.

Now of course if you are that good and that talented they will find you. Not sure I'd call a C4 school small. HMMM
 
I think other sports are easier to make that jump. When you play at a small school, its hard to stack up your recruits against quality talent. Sure, you can get 40 times and lifting marks, but it's just riskier.

In baseball, basketball, volleyball, golf, etc, these kids can be seen playing high caliber talent in the summers in club/travel ball and you can get a better read on how they fare with stiffer competition even being a "small school" kid. Football can't really do that same thing. Particular positions are probably still fairly easy to gauge, but not nearly as easy as the other sports.
 
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you_dont_know_me said:
I think other sports are easier to make that jump. When you play at a small school, its hard to stack up your recruits against quality talent. Sure, you can get 40 times and lifting marks, but it's just riskier.

In baseball, basketball, volleyball, golf, etc, these kids can be seen playing high caliber talent in the summers in club/travel ball and you can get a better read on how they fare with stiffer competition even being a "small school" kid. Football can't really do that same thing. Particular positions are probably still fairly easy to gauge, but not nearly as easy as the other sports.
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40 times and lifting marks? What?
Small town kids can go to camps all over the country and send video everywhere. They can be found.
 
Sometimes kids from smaller schools are a little harder to evaluate because the level of competition they play. They dominate against some guys that would not play on Monday nights for SOME TEAMS. Yes, there are some misses, but I really believe that most of the time, kids that can play at that level are found, regardless of their school size. What tends to happen, more often, are parents and fans that think their kid is D1 level, when in reality they are no where close, and really dont know what a DI talent really looks like.
 
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MoSooner69 said:
Sometimes kids from smaller schools are a little harder to evaluate because the level of competition they play. They dominate against some guys that would not play on Monday nights for SOME TEAMS. Yes, there are some misses, but I really believe that most of the time, kids that can play at that level are found, regardless of their school size. What tends to happen, more often, are parents and fans that think their kid is D1 level, when in reality they are no where close, and really dont know what a DI talent really looks like.
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This is what I was saying above. I played against a kid that ended up being one of the best centers at MU and was recruited by UCLA as well, and he played 8 man. Not saying it's impossible, just harder. The small school kids can go play in showcases and go to camps and play aau ball against top rated competition. Harder to do that from 8 man and C1, C2, and C3 football.
 
Duck_walk said:
40 times and lifting marks? What?
Small town kids can go to camps all over the country and send video everywhere. They can be found.
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THIS is why Westmoreland didnt get those big offers

https://247sports.com/Player/Zach-Westmoreland-46076720/

He went to The Opening Regionals in St Louis last offseason and ran a 4.75 forty. Teams see these numbers. That 40 time also translates to his film were he doesnt look very fast. He's a great football player with excellent vision but if you're not fast you wont get open in College nor will you be able to run away from people.

This is the Harsh reality of why MOST kids especially at skill positions dont go D1 either Public or Private: Size or Speed.
 
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HBL Pirates fan_1990 said:
They're are good football athletes from Missouri not getting offers from NCAA teams. Westmoreland from Joplin might be the best receiver prospect in Missouri but got one offer from a D1 school.

Can you think of football athletes class 1- 4 right now that should be getting D1 offers and a 3 star rating or more? They must be from a public school

Players from class 1 to 4 to get signed by a NCAA D1 team in the past Decade.

Rafe Peavey Bolivar Arkansas 4 stars

Kony Ealy New Madrid Missouri 4 stars NFL

Marquis Doherty Winnetonka Missouri 4 stars

Jalani Williams Parkway North Missouri 4 stars

C.J Boone Parkway North 3 Stars Missouri 3 stars

Cale Garret Kearney Missouri 3 stars

Tanner Owen Kearney Missouri 3 Stars

Trystan Castillo Webb City Missouri 3 stars

Antar Thompson Maplewood-Richmond Heights Missouri 3 Stars

Nate Howard Ladue Missouri 3 Stars

Jehu Chesson Ladue Michigan 3 stars NFL

Maliek Collins Center (Kcity) Nebraska 3 stars NFL

Moses Okpala Ladue Illinois 3 Stars

Dylan Powell Hannibal Stanford 3 Stars

Shane Clenin Festus Arkansas 3 Stars

Grant Norton Camdenton Minnesota 3 Stars

Derrick Mitchell Jr Vashon Iowa 3 Stars

Brandon Bourbon Potosi Kansas 3 Stars

Ivory Winters Hayti Indiana 3 stars
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The fact that you guys know this means you actually do understand why all the kids are rushing to the Private schools. Better chance to play D1 football and pretty much no chance you get overlooked at least in the St. Louis Area.

If your a kid that goes to Cardinal Ritter or CBC and you arent a D1 guy its because you arent good enough. You never have to worry about getting overlooked
 
Here is my take on the small school athlete. DI coaches/recruiters have to evaluate on many things. A athlete that is having great success at a larger school is easier to evaluate because they are typically playing the best competition there is to offer. It's kind of like a MLB scout, the twitchy, hard throwing kid has a higher ceiling than the kid that is really polished and knows how to pitch and get outs, but velocity and body type looks to be maxed and room for improvement may not be there. Hard to sell that kid and give big money to that kid because through the lens of their bosses justifying failure vs. the kid that throws 95+. Easier to say, well the 95+ has the tools, just cant get it done. Same for other sports...being able to justify and hoping the high ceiling guy pans out. Because when they do pan out you look like a genius. I don't agree with this but even in college football it is a business, and the sure fire large school athletes are a bigger attraction because it doesn't require as much work or evaluating.
 
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Stryk3 said:
Here is my take on the small school athlete. DI coaches/recruiters have to evaluate on many things. A athlete that is having great success at a larger school is easier to evaluate because they are typically playing the best competition there is to offer. It's kind of like a MLB scout, the twitchy, hard throwing kid has a higher ceiling than the kid that is really polished and knows how to pitch and get outs, but velocity and body type looks to be maxed and room for improvement may not be there. Hard to sell that kid and give big money to that kid because through the lens of their bosses justifying failure vs. the kid that throws 95+. Easier to say, well the 95+ has the tools, just cant get it done. Same for other sports...being able to justify and hoping the high ceiling guy pans out. Because when they do pan out you look like a genius. I don't agree with this but even in college football it is a business, and the sure fire large school athletes are a bigger attraction because it doesn't require as much work or evaluating.
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Hit the nail on the head. Stats and Accomplishments dont mean as much as you think. @HBL Pirates fan_1990 post said a kid ran for great numbers but isnt being recruited. The kid is probably not athletically gifted to be a big time guy BUT there is a school at a level D2/D3 for him to play football if he choose.

Big Programs are looking for kids to fit their scheme and have the athletic profile to succeed.
 
“Better chance to play D1 football”

THIS IS A BS RECRUITING LINE.
Stay with your local public school.
Go to camps to show the colleges
what you can do. Get your video out.

If you are good enough you will get money to go play at the level where you belong. You don’t need to go to a private school.
 
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Overall, football coaches in general can get too enamoured with shuttle times, 40 times, and strength, and miss out on the football player that can make plays. Admittedly, not easy to see---and the simple numbers from those track meet like stats can really dazzle.

Example:

Steve Largent. Relatively slow and only 5'11" 13,089 yards in receptions. Cut in mini-camp by Houston before he ever got started. Thank God he had an old coach at Seattle, or he never would have been a 7 x Pro Bowler and 2 x NFL leader in yards.
 
JNreturns said:
Overall, football coaches in general can get too enamoured with shuttle times, 40 times, and strength, and miss out on the football player that can make plays. Admittedly, not easy to see---and the simple numbers from those track meet like stats can really dazzle.

Example:

Steve Largent. Relatively slow and only 5'11" 13,089 yards in receptions. Cut in mini-camp by Houston before he ever got started. Thank God he had an old coach at Seattle, or he never would have been a 7 x Pro Bowler and 2 x NFL leader in yards.
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Yep very hard to tell because usually the best athletes rise to the top. But some guys are just playmakers. You put them in any system in any league and they'll find a way to get in the endzone.
 
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JNreturns said:
Overall, football coaches in general can get too enamoured with shuttle times, 40 times, and strength, and miss out on the football player that can make plays. Admittedly, not easy to see---and the simple numbers from those track meet like stats can really dazzle.

Example:

Steve Largent. Relatively slow and only 5'11" 13,089 yards in receptions. Cut in mini-camp by Houston before he ever got started. Thank God he had an old coach at Seattle, or he never would have been a 7 x Pro Bowler and 2 x NFL leader in yards.
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There are always exceptions. A Missouri example is Kearney's Tommy Saunders, who was deemed "too slow" to play D-1 football. Walked on at Mizzou, graduated as one of their all-time leading receivers. But schools, and later, NFL teams, can't devote too many resources to the exceptions. They have to gamble on players with the measurables. That's just the way it is. The tall, 4.4 kid is the one you're going to take a chance on. Other things can be learned. Tall and 4.4 can't.
Hannibal is Class 4. There are plenty of Class 4 schools that have D-1 athletes occasionally. Hannibal probably doesn't for the same reasons they don't win state titles- they aren't good enough.
 
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BPcompete said:
Yep very hard to tell because usually the best athletes rise to the top. But some guys are just playmakers. You put them in any system in any league and they'll find a way to get in the endzone.
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Phili McConkey, 5-10, 170 lbs. Cut over and over, brought back. Super Bowl touchdown. Playmaker. Motor. Knack for the game. Super Bowl Champion.
 
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Ya, Hannibal does play a weaker schedule but to me this kid is athletic and a big playmaker. If you guys want see some of his highlights. I posted a video to coach drinkwitz on twitter last night.
 
HBL Pirates fan_1990 said:
This kid. Sorry im only 29 and have no kids lol
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but yea no need to convince us lol we arent college coaches. If he is a Senior and isnt receiving D1 looks then its too late its not gonna happen. D2 schools you're late as well. All the schools are wrapping up official visits and most have already signed their class.

Can always look at the Kansas Jucos or Low level D2 who may take a flier on him but trying to get Coach Drinks attention probably isnt the best use of your time

Also these MoSports posters are vicious and ruthless. I dont know if I wanna ask them what they think about your relative lol
 
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HBL Pirates fan_1990 said:
They're is always great talent every year in smaller public schools but they get overlook. There are 2 junior on Hannibal that should be getting look at. Running back Damien French is 6'2 200 he has ran over 300 carries 3094 yds and 44 TD's in 3 seasons. He's a up the gut runner with speed and moves.
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Stats and high school accolades don't matter, and even if they did that only shakes out to a little over 1000 yards a year, which isn't bad, but would make him the 35th best RB in the St. Louis area. If you're using yardage as a metric.

What's his 40 time? What's his three come drill? What's his GPA and ACT score? Does he attend exposure camps? There are dozens of variables that factor in to recruitment.
 
Veerman_12 said:
Stats and high school accolades don't matter, and even if they did that only shakes out to a little over 1000 yards a year, which isn't bad, but would make him the 35th best RB in the St. Louis area. If you're using yardage as a metric.

What's his 40 time? What's his three come drill? What's his GPA and ACT score? Does he attend exposure camps? There are dozens of variables that factor in to recruitment.
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Actually F it. We're all bored at work (or nursing home for some of you) send us that Hudl link @HBL Pirates fan_1990
 
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Duck_walk said:
And we all have been around long enough to know you don’t have to go to CR or LN to get a D-1 scholarship. So stop spreading that lie, son.
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thats of course not what I was implying.

All I said is that you have a better chance. Those schools are regularly getting visited by schools all over the country. If you attend one of those schools you'll have more eye balls on you naturally when it comes to recruiting.

Im actually of the believe that if you have Power 5 Division 1 talent in 2019 then you will be found. But Im just acknowledging the obvious. I told you I dont even think some of the LN kids or Trinity kids are all that good, some of those Offers are based off of reputation. Kids are getting offers with limited film on them.
 
BPcompete said:
thats of course not what I was implying.

All I said is that you have a better chance. Those schools are regularly getting visited by schools all over the country. If you attend one of those schools you'll have more eye balls on you naturally when it comes to recruiting.

Im actually of the believe that if you have Power 5 Division 1 talent in 2019 then you will be found. But Im just acknowledging the obvious. I told you I dont even think some of the LN kids or Trinity kids are all that good, some of those Offers are based off of reputation. Kids are getting offers with limited film on them.
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And I am telling you, you don’t have more eyeballs. Do you know how Hudl works?
 
Duck_walk said:
And we all have been around long enough to know you don’t have to go to CR or LN to get a D-1 scholarship. So stop spreading that lie, son.
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Example: Demetrius Cannon 6'3 200 WR from Trinity Catholic

Sophomore on the 2018 State Champ team. Season stats are 5 catches and 2 TDs.

Receiving Vandy and Tennessee Offers based off of this season in Feb 2019 before any camps or anything besides benefit of the doubt.

Today he has a total of 10 offers and he does have natural Ability.

BUT THE ONLY REASON HE GOT THOSE ORIGINAL OFFERS IS BECAUSE HE PLAYS FOR TRINITY.
If a WR no matter how talented he may be goes to Parkway West and only has 5 catches and plays WR (no film) he isnt getting SEC offers.
 
BPcompete said:
I just gave an example of a kid with no film getting SEC offers because he goes to Trinity lol please read.
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The arrival of the college coaches coincided with the arrival of premier D-I talent at these schools. Back before they started hiring Pee Wee league coaches to bring in players, these schools were as irrelevant in the recruiting world as any other school. The name and location of the school aren't important- if there are players they want to recruit, they'll be there.
 
deacon jones said:
The arrival of the college coaches coincided with the arrival of premier D-I talent at these schools. Back before they started hiring Pee Wee league coaches to bring in players, these schools were as irrelevant in the recruiting world as any other school. The name and location of the school aren't important- if there are players they want to recruit, they'll be there.
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Um obviously the players have to be there. Im saying that because of the reputation you now get a benefit of the doubt for playing for these Schools. Thats not a disputable thing based off of the example I just gave. If that Kid went to Blair Oaks he wouldnt have been offered by Tennessee. Because Trinity Catholic who has produced 4 all americans and over 15 other division 1 kids the last 4 years are getting benefit of the Doubt at this point.
 
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