Since separating the private school isn’t happening, thoughts on a socioeconomic factor?

[thesnow.flakegazette]

How would you feel about a socioeconomic factor for public schools?

I believe this is the biggest difference between public and private schools. Way more kids participate in sports and activities. I feel like this would definitely level the playing especially in the lower classes.

If you look at participation rates as a whole, schools in higher poverty areas typically have lower participation.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

How would you feel about a socioeconomic factor for public schools?

I believe this is the biggest difference between public and private schools. Way more kids participate in sports and activities. I feel like this would definitely level the playing especially in the lower classes.

If you look at participation rates as a whole, schools in higher poverty areas typically have lower participation.

So put Stl_private_team_014 in class 1 since it's a bunch of lower income kids?

 

[revno]

I thought it was class .5???

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I thought it was class .5???

it may be going back to 1!
50 in class 1/1a/.5 will make it less likely you gotta go 10 hours for a 1st round district game.

 

[r14veer]

How would you feel about a socioeconomic factor for public schools?

I believe this is the biggest difference between public and private schools. Way more kids participate in sports and activities. I feel like this would definitely level the playing especially in the lower classes.

If you look at participation rates as a whole, schools in higher poverty areas typically have lower participation.

I think this is one of things that partially hits at one (of many) of the correct factors for a lot of the competitive imbalance, but would for sure be exploited. The Law of Unintended Consequences makes a mockery of a lot of the well-intentioned legislation (whether congressional or institutional) in our state because it seems they just aren’t willing to think things through quite far enough.

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

So put Stl_private_team_014 in class 1 since it's a bunch of lower income kids?

It wouldn’t apply to private schools so………

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

I think this is one of things that partially hits at one (of many) of the correct factors for a lot of the competitive imbalance, but would for sure be exploited. The Law of Unintended Consequences makes a mockery of a lot of the well-intentioned legislation (whether congressional or institutional) in our state because it seems they just aren’t willing to think things through quite far enough.

I believe states like Iowa and Minnesota do this and it’s based on free lunches. It could be exploited but would could result in felony charges so would probably be less likely to be exploited than say someone manipulating enrollment numbers

I know it did create some changes in Iowa as the reduced the 8 man max enrollment to 100

 

[carthagefan2006]

I don't like the idea of a socioeconomic factor because I think there is bigger gulf between private and public schools overall (especially the large metro private school) then there is between public schools. Economics may have a slight impact depending on the sport, but it tends to balance out overall. Blair Oaks has been very successful in football, but so has Lamar. Neosho may have struggled as of late, but they had something like 7-8 consecutive state wrestling titles. Carthage has the highest poverty rate in the COC, but I can't recall them ever losing to Carl Junction (lowest poverty rate) in boys' soccer.

 

[JNsDaddyzDaddyIownU]

Does East(KC) HS get to move down in soccer? Oh wait, They won state in Class 3.

 

[sw5890]

I don't like the idea of a socioeconomic factor because I think there is bigger gulf between private and public schools overall (especially the large metro private school) then there is between public schools. Economics may have a slight impact depending on the sport, but it tends to balance out overall. Blair Oaks has been very successful in football, but so has Lamar. Neosho may have struggled as of late, but they had something like 7-8 consecutive state wrestling titles. Carthage has the highest poverty rate in the COC, but I can't recall them ever losing to Carl Junction (lowest poverty rate) in boys' soccer.

Carthage soccer v CJ isn't a good example because the reason they are good at soccer is the same reason they have the highest poverty in the COC.

Carthage in general isn't your typical "poor" or "disadvantaged" school because it's simultaneously very wealthy.

 

[BearsCountry]

Just another excuse

 

[Veer2Eternity]

It wouldn’t apply to private schools so………

why not?

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

why not?

Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose

not really.

Anyways, i think your assumption that the split won't happen is way off.

If things keep up like they are, it's bound to happen. The private schools that were just a problem for the 'smaller' classes are now moving up and getting everyone involved.

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

not really.

Anyways, i think your assumption that the split won't happen is way off.

If things keep up like they are, it's bound to happen. The private schools that were just a problem for the 'smaller' classes are now moving up and getting everyone involved.

Private schools win about 20% to 25% of state title. It’s not the problem so e try to make it out to be and there isn’t a major push to separate them. With the championship factor you’ll never see another Valle again. The only schools with any extended success are Rockhurst and CBC, CBC is only within the last 15 years or so.

It’s not an assumption because it’s not being talked about at MSHSAA

 

[HomeyR]

It’s not an assumption because it’s not being talked about at MSHSAA

Why not ? It's obviously more than a perceived problem. Multiple states have separated public/private for reasons that have been stated by others on this board previously.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Private schools win about 20% to 25% of state title. It’s not the problem so e try to make it out to be and there isn’t a major push to separate them. With the championship factor you’ll never see another Valle again. The only schools with any extended success are Rockhurst and CBC, CBC is only within the last 15 years or so.

It’s not an assumption because it’s not being talked about at MSHSAA

You're naive if you think that is the case.

As these schools keep getting dropped into new classes, they'll eventually piss enough off.

 

[carthagefan2006]

Carthage soccer v CJ isn't a good example because the reason they are good at soccer is the same reason they have the highest poverty in the COC.

Carthage in general isn't your typical "poor" or "disadvantaged" school because it's simultaneously very wealthy.

That was kind of what I was saying with the way that things balance out once you look at all 21 sports. We certainly aren't going to be dominating in boys volleyball anytime soon. If you use a socioeconomic factor, you're likely to get the same results for Carthage, East Kansas City and Washburn albeit for three entirely different reasons. Carl Junction, Blair Oaks and Clayton would probably produce similar results to one another again for entirely different reasons. What exactly would the metric be based off of?

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

You're naive if you think that is the case.

As these schools keep getting dropped into new classes, they'll eventually piss enough off.

I’m telling I know matter of fact that unless it happens at the state legislative level, it won’t be happening at the MSHSAA level anytime soon.

 

[JNsDaddyzDaddyIownU]

"Socio-economic" is a code word for "Meta-Marxist Crap theory"

 

[Veer2Eternity]

I’m telling I know matter of fact that unless it happens at the state legislative level, it won’t be happening at the MSHSAA level anytime soon.

Which should tell you all about MSHSAA you need to know.

 

[r14veer]

"Socio-economic" is a code word for "Meta-Marxist Crap theory"

Jesus H. Christ.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Why not ? It's obviously more than a perceived problem. Multiple states have separated public/private for reasons that have been stated by others on this board previously.

this is the question folks don't want to answer.

 

[JNsDaddyzDaddyIownU]

Jesus H. Christ.

Exactly. Theories like that get you the social experiment of the Kansas City Schools in the 1980s. Hey, let's spend 5x per square foot on buildings, bring in fencing instructors and teachers from Russia. Force bus everyone by judge fiat and then FAIL. Total waste.

 

[OldeCoach]

not really.

Anyways, i think your assumption that the split won't happen is way off.

If things keep up like they are, it's bound to happen. The private schools that were just a problem for the 'smaller' classes are now moving up and getting everyone involved.

Blair oaks and the Lamar wolverines are a problem for “the smaller classes”

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Blair oaks and the Lamar wolverines are a problem for “the smaller classes”

Nice that they don't need a whole county of kids to do it too.
Kudos to them.

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

Nice that they don't need a whole county of kids to do it too.
Kudos to them.

Agree with Lamar. It would seem they are doing it the right way.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

Agree with Lamar. It would seem they are doing it the right way.

Not Blair Oaks?

Please share.

 

[OldeCoach]

Agree with Lamar. It would seem they are doing it the right way.

It would seem that way…

 

[r14veer]

Exactly. Theories like that get you the social experiment of the Kansas City Schools in the 1980s. Hey, let's spend 5x per square foot on buildings, bring in fencing instructors and teachers from Russia. Force bus everyone by judge fiat and then FAIL. Total waste.

I don't think "Marxist" means what you think it means, but you aren't wrong on the fact that it was a failure. The entire purpose was to attract kids from surrounding districts with all the bells and whistles and programs and money. But they didn't even begin to think about touching the root causes. That's why it was always doomed to failure. They ran an experiment based on faulty premises that failed. Much like the for-profit charter school crowd is currently doing.

 

[MidMissouri_Football]

Not Blair Oaks?

Please share.

Snowflake thinks they recruit, but never has any evidence.

 

[bullitpdq68]

It would seem that way…

As someone who lives in SWMO and has kids who play Lamar in several sports they are doing it the right way. Several of us parents in my community would love to copy what they do, but our school board and leadership is not pro athletic and very weak minded and have no clue as to what needs to be done to achieve that level of success. Lamar however is, they see the benefits of kids participation in sport and what the strong since of belonging does for school Moral even in the classroom.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

As someone who lives in SWMO and has kids who play Lamar in several sports they are doing it the right way. Several of us parents in my community would love to copy what they do, but our school board and leadership is not pro athletic and very weak minded and have no clue as to what needs to be done to achieve that level of success. Lamar however is, they see the benefits of kids participation in sport and what the strong since of belonging does for school Moral even in the classroom.

The community has to allow the coaches to hold the kids accountable no matter who they are or what their last name is.

That's the whole trick IMO.
Lamar has that.

 

[bullitpdq68]

The community has to allow the coaches to hold the kids accountable no matter who they are or what their last name is.

That's the whole trick IMO.
Lamar has that.

100% and Kids need to see that hard work is going to be rewarded all that time they put in the weight room all that time they put in film study is going to be rewarded with playing time.

 

[Veer2Eternity]

100% and Kids need to see that hard work is going to be rewarded all that time they put in the weight room all that time they put in film study is going to be rewarded with playing time.

It's simple but it ain't easy.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

Private schools win about 20% to 25% of state title. It’s not the problem so e try to make it out to be and there isn’t a major push to separate them. With the championship factor you’ll never see another Valle again. The only schools with any extended success are Rockhurst and CBC, CBC is only within the last 15 years or so.

It’s not an assumption because it’s not being talked about at MSHSAA

My numbers may not be exact, but close. You could make the fact that there are about 30 private schools, with 311 playing football. Privates make up 10% of the population, but are winning you 20-25% of championships.

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

The community has to allow the coaches to hold the kids accountable no matter who they are or what their last name is.

That's the whole trick IMO.
Lamar has that.

Yeah I vaguely remember saying that in an older post and being told I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about. Oh well 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[JNsDaddyzDaddyIownU]

As someone who lives in SWMO and has kids who play Lamar in several sports they are doing it the right way. Several of us parents in my community would love to copy what they do, but our school board and leadership is not pro athletic and very weak minded and have no clue as to what needs to be done to achieve that level of success. Lamar however is, they see the benefits of kids participation in sport and what the strong since of belonging does for school Moral even in the classroom.

"That doesn't fit my meta-Marxist model or take into account socioeconomic structure based on race."
Says every Jacktard leftist...in response.

 

[thesnow.flakegazette]

My numbers may not be exact, but close. You could make the fact that there are about 30 private schools, with 311 playing football. Privates make up 10% of the population, but are winning you 20-25% of championships.

I meant overall for all sports.

So what do we do about the 10 public schools that win 20-25% of championships?

 

[JNsDaddyzDaddyIownU]

I meant overall for all sports.

So what do we do about the 10 public schools that win 20-25% of championships?

Please put together which ten you are referring to? Because I doubt you can make those numbers stick. Even if you throw in a school like LIberty, who has won 4 wrestling titels in a row, they don't have that success in other sports. #Redherring argument.