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Private School Solution (It's Peppery)

DirtyDan17

DirtyDan17

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
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For those who feel private schools should have a separate playoff, here's essentially what that would look like.

Large Private
Rockhurst
SLUH
CBC
DeSmet
Vianney
Chaminade
St. Dominic
Helias Catholic
Westminster Christian
St. Mary's
MICDS
Priory

Small Private
Lutheran South
John Burroughs
Springfield Catholic
Lutheran St. Charles
Trinity Catholic
Cardinal Ritter
St. Pius X (KC)
Christian O'Fallon
Bishop DuBourg
Missouri Military Academy
Duchesne
St. Pius X (Festus)
Father Tolton Catholic
Lutheran North
Summit Christian Academy
Principia
St. Vincent
Valle Catholic
St. Joseph Christian w/Northland Christian
St. Michael the Archangel
St. Paul Lutheran (Concordia)
 
Last edited:
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District 1
Rockhurst
Helias
St. Dominic

District 2
CBC
Vianney
DeSmet

District 3
Chaminade
Priory
Westminister Christian Academy

District 4
MICDS
St. Mary's
SLUH

SMALL CLASS

District 1
Bishop DuBourg
Lutheran South
St. Pius X (Festus)
St. Vincent
Valle Catholic

District 2
Christian O'Fallon
Trinity Catholic
Cardinal Ritter
Lutheran North
John Burroughs
Principia

District 3
Lutheran St. Charles
Duchesne
Father Tolton Catholic
Missouri Military Academy
Springfield Catholic

District 4
St. Pius X (KC)
Summit Christian Academy
St. Joe Christian w/Northland Christian
St. Michael the Archangel
St. Paul Lutheran
 
Last edited:
You forgot St. Joseph Christian with Northland Christian in small.

Also, St. Michael the Archangel
St. Paul Lutheran (Concordia)
 
Or just throw them all together and see how it shakes out.

District 1
Bishop DuBourg
Cardinal Ritter
Lutheran South
MICDS
St. Mary's
St. Pius X (Festus)
St. Vincent
Valle Catholic

District 2
DeSmet
John Burroughs
Lutheran North
Principia
Priory
SLUH
Trinity Catholic
Vianney

District 3
Chaminade
Christian O'Fallon
CBC
Duchesne
Lutheran St. Charles
Springfield Catholic
St. Dominic
Westminster Christian

District 4
Helias Catholic
Father Tolton Catholic
Rockhurst
St. Pius X (KC)
Summit Christian Academy
St. Joe Christian w/Northland Christian
St. Michael the Archangel
St. Paul Lutheran
 
My thought on the whole public/private:

1. Create small school and large school divisions for state championship (like the post says)
2. Open recruiting to anywhere in the state for private schools. Any player can go to any private program they want.
3. Public schools have to option of playing or not playing any/all private schools (conference or non-conference).

Public school will never have to worry about private schools ever again and privates schools do what they've always done (just now out in the open and completely legal).
 
Grip it and Rip it said:
My thought on the whole public/private:

1. Create small school and large school divisions for state championship (like the post says)
2. Open recruiting to anywhere in the state for private schools. Any player can go to any private program they want.
3. Public schools have to option of playing or not playing any/all private schools (conference or non-conference).

Public school will never have to worry about private schools ever again and privates schools do what they've always done (just now out in the open and completely legal).
Click to expand...
So what are we going to do about the public schools that recruit?
 
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MSHSAA needs to do their job as an executive body and investigate. If any wrong doing is found enforce stiff penalties like year ban, school fines, etc.
 
I would also ban the student for a minimum of two years from all MSHSAA related activities.

Send a message that it won't be tolerated from anyone (school or individual).
 
Grip it and Rip it said:
I would also ban the student for a minimum of two years from all MSHSAA related activities.

Send a message that it won't be tolerated from anyone (school or individual).
Click to expand...

Don't ban the student, fire the coaches and or administrators who allowed it to happen (if you can prove wrongdoing). People will get a lot more careful.

Also, more often than not, it's not the kid actively trying to skirt the rules, it's the coaches/administrators. Put punishment where it belongs.
 
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DirtyDan17 said:
Don't ban the student, fire the coaches and or administrators who allowed it to happen (if you can prove wrongdoing). People will get a lot more careful.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I'm down with firing people unless there is a provable pattern over time, but I would be for at least providing sanctions of some sort like no playoffs for a season (more for the next violation, etc.) or something.
 
r14veer said:
I don't know that I'm down with firing people unless there is a provable pattern over time, but I would be for at least providing sanctions of some sort like no playoffs for a season (more for the next violation, etc.) or something.
Click to expand...

Ok then two year sanction in which they cannot coach in the state of Missouri for a first offense. Five years for a second offense, lifetime ban for a third.
 
DirtyDan17 said:
Ok then two year sanction in which they cannot coach in the state of Missouri for a first offense. Five years for a second offense, lifetime ban for a third.
Click to expand...

The standard of proof would have to be high, or you'll have coaches fighting this in court and winning. Hell, there would likely be court battles anyway.
 
r14veer said:
The standard of proof would have to be high, or you'll have coaches fighting this in court and winning. Hell, there would likely be court battles anyway.
Click to expand...

But it would be ok to suspend kids for two years for the same offense?
 
DirtyDan17 said:
But it would be ok to suspend kids for two years for the same offense?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. It's on the adults to do the right thing, since they're the ones truly in control of the situation regardless of what the kid wants to do.
 
r14veer said:
I don't think so. It's on the adults to do the right thing, since they're the ones truly in control of the situation regardless of what the kid wants to do.
Click to expand...

My issue with playoff bans is, why punish the other kids (who had nothing to do with the cheating), punish the people directly responsible.

Coaching high school sports isnt a right, the same as playing the sport isnt a right. If someone is found to be cheating or in any way trying to circumvent the established system, take away the privilege of coaching.
 
DirtyDan17 said:
My issue with playoff bans is, why punish the other kids (who had nothing to do with the cheating), punish the people directly responsible.

Coaching high school sports isnt a right, the same as playing the sport isnt a right. If someone is found to be cheating or in any way trying to circumvent the established system, take away the privilege of coaching.
Click to expand...
Instead of playoff bans, how about moving the school to the private school division for two years, along with disciplining the coach and administration. That way the kids still get the opportunity to compete for a state championship.
 
mosofan said:
Instead of playoff bans, how about moving the school to the private school division for two years, along with disciplining the coach and administration. That way the kids still get the opportunity to compete for a state championship.
Click to expand...

Or just discipline the people involved...

This is way off the original intent of the thread.
 
DirtyDan17 said:
Or just discipline the people involved...

This is way off the original intent of the thread.
Click to expand...

You
DirtyDan17 said:
Or just discipline the people involved...

This is way off the original intent of the thread.
Click to expand...

Back to the original intent: The coaches involved should be held accountable in some way, no doubt, I don't think that's in question, maybe even the administration for allowing it to happen, though they often are clueless on every single transfer, depending on the size of the school, of course.
What would be the standard of evidence in such a case against a coach? How would you compel a coach to release that evidence, short of involving the legal system, and even then; what crime has been committed according to Missouri Statutes?
 
I would still punish the athlete. Lack of accountability is a huge issue in our society. You can't convince me that the athlete is completely blind to being recruited or moving for athletic reasons. They are just as complicit as the parents, coaches, and administration.

Honest question, what percentage of schools actually check the "moving for athletic reasons" box on students when they move? If it's a low number maybe schools could help the situation with starting the investigative process, and then families provide legitimate reasons for moving schools. Families don't simply have to put a For Sale sign on their lawn, never move, and then MSHSAA is satisfied.
 
How about put the kid in foster care if the parents moved him because I know of some parents that moved there kids to other schools to play sports.
 
DirtyDan17 said:
Just go to open enrollment/vouchers, do away with MSHSAA entirely.
Click to expand...
Iowa has open enrollment (by state law). Iowa has sports associations for boys and girls, plus other activities. Just saying "do away with MSHSAA" isn't going to solve much of anything.
 
shoot90draw said:
Good point Bosko!
Click to expand...
Look what happened at Jenks ten years ago. Trimble and his assistant coaches admitted to multiple recruiting violations and basically laughed about it because they had been doing it for years. Trimble and one assistant was suspended then OSSAA placed them on indefinite suspensions

Indefinite suspensions don’t last long in Oklahoma as Trimble was reinstated June of 2010.

When someone admits he is a lifetime cheat Zi don’t think he should ever be allowed to coach again. What a great example for students
 
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liberator74 said:
Look what happened at Jenks ten years ago. Trimble and his assistant coaches admitted to multiple recruiting violations and basically laughed about it because they had been doing it for years. Trimble and one assistant was suspended then OSSAA placed them on indefinite suspensions

Indefinite suspensions don’t last long in Oklahoma as Trimble was reinstated June of 2010.

When someone admits he is a lifetime cheat Zi don’t think he should ever be allowed to coach again. What a great example for students
Click to expand...
See, stuff like that would NEVER fly here in Ampipe! If I get caught wind, that our coaching staff were knowingly committing recruiting violations, Id run them out of town faster than Coach Nickerson!
 
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BoosterBosko said:
See, stuff like that would NEVER fly here in Ampipe! If I get caught wind, that our coaching staff were knowingly committing recruiting violations, Id run them out of town faster than Coach Nickerson!
Click to expand...
And Trimble was suspended from January until first of June,,,just in time for football season so he never missed a practice or a game
 
liberator74 said:
Look what happened at Jenks ten years ago. Trimble and his assistant coaches admitted to multiple recruiting violations and basically laughed about it because they had been doing it for years. Trimble and one assistant was suspended then OSSAA placed them on indefinite suspensions

Indefinite suspensions don’t last long in Oklahoma as Trimble was reinstated June of 2010.

When someone admits he is a lifetime cheat Zi don’t think he should ever be allowed to coach again. What a great example for students
Click to expand...

That Jenks/Union/Broken Arrow thing is a big mess unto itself.
 
Not sure punishing the kids is good. Most of the kids have little control over what their parents do or think, and most parents think they are doing it for their kids.

Being a involved in youth ball I don't know how many times I have been told or heard a parent say hey my kid needs to be at X position and I talked to so and so coach, parent, whomever on this team or this town and they agree they would start my kid at X position if they played for them. So what happens next is the parents move to the next school or team, and two things either happen, he gets the position, or he doesn't and the parents dissatisfied and are moving on again. Usually these kids are good athletes and can make a difference, but the parents just are never happy about the situation, they are what I like to call team jumpers always looking for the next best thing for their kids and to make them as parents look good.

Now I have always heard the argument that public schools recruit, I have seen parents from other towns try to convince parents to move because they want that kid to play for their town, but I have never seen a coach or admin do it. Not saying it might not happen, but most recruiting happens between parents. I personal have heard job offers being made to get a parent to move.

I really don't fully understand the difference in moving between public and private schools. But I know enough to know there is a difference. I have seen a kid move from public to public school and have to sit out a year. But it seems public to private no questions are asked and you have even more excuse for the move.
 
bullitpdq68 said:
Not sure punishing the kids is good. Most of the kids have little control over what their parents do or think, and most parents think they are doing it for their kids.

Being a involved in youth ball I don't know how many times I have been told or heard a parent say hey my kid needs to be at X position and I talked to so and so coach, parent, whomever on this team or this town and they agree they would start my kid at X position if they played for them. So what happens next is the parents move to the next school or team, and two things either happen, he gets the position, or he doesn't and the parents dissatisfied and are moving on again. Usually these kids are good athletes and can make a difference, but the parents just are never happy about the situation, they are what I like to call team jumpers always looking for the next best thing for their kids and to make them as parents look good.

Now I have always heard the argument that public schools recruit, I have seen parents from other towns try to convince parents to move because they want that kid to play for their town, but I have never seen a coach or admin do it. Not saying it might not happen, but most recruiting happens between parents. I personal have heard job offers being made to get a parent to move.

I really don't fully understand the difference in moving between public and private schools. But I know enough to know there is a difference. I have seen a kid move from public to public school and have to sit out a year. But it seems public to private no questions are asked and you have even more excuse for the move.
Click to expand...
Now I never said, 'Let's punish the kids.' I was talking about running the coach out of town, a la Coach Nickerson style. But I guess you raise a good point, he might be one heck of a coach and running him, will in fact, hurt the kids. Classic catch 22.
 
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BoosterBosko said:
Now I never said, 'Let's punish the kids.' I was talking about running the coach out of town, a la Coach Nickerson style. But I guess you raise a good point, he might be one heck of a coach and running him, will in fact, hurt the kids. Classic catch 22.
Click to expand...
Wow Bosko. Have you been reading books during your retirement!?
 
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BoosterBosko said:
Ill have to check that out. But it better not be some IPA or pale ale! Those are the worst!!!
Click to expand...
Its actually a Vodka! a little fruity for my taste.
0289472a44b98bb258ec6aac7099870b.jpg
 
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