Planned Parenthood
- Thread starter Kenny56
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Really a sad commentary that this conversation devolves into political backbiting. Honestly, Cowherd's comment:
Yes Cowherd, you should be outraged. It is attitudes like yours that lead to the sexual exploitation of children, and the abandonment of the elderly that no longer serve our purpose. Giving you one for your team; it is also the attitude that lets invisible market forces dictate the economy and considers their impact on society and nature as collateral damage (thanks Pope Francis for this one!). The same liberals that support the murder of unborn children should also come out in favor of human trafficking, the fur industry, drug trade, organized crime, deforestation, etc. as each also provides immediate satisfaction of our human desires and needs. You can't have it both ways.
I am moralizing here, and I am by no means perfect. There are no easy answers. This thread I believe also carried a reference to the confederate flag controversy. The flag is not the issue, and the rush to make it the scapegoat is comical. The real issue is as I said and quoted in the previous paragraphs; it is the devaluation of human life. Every life is sacred, born and unborn - yes, we should all be outraged.
almost brings me to tears. I am sure that I will be ridiculed for making this honest statement, but I am truly sad that life is so devalued. Yes, I am Roman Catholic and admittedly I struggle with some Church teachings, but I pray everyday that the Holy Spirit guides me in my conscience formation. The cavalier attitude toward a human life (inside the mother) that allows one to discuss how best to kill in order to preserve "material" for profit is reprehensible. However, I guess this is understandable as one has to be able to devalue or remove the humanity in order to justify this action. I don't see this as a Conservative or a Liberal issue, but a human issue.
Yes Cowherd, you should be outraged. It is attitudes like yours that lead to the sexual exploitation of children, and the abandonment of the elderly that no longer serve our purpose. Giving you one for your team; it is also the attitude that lets invisible market forces dictate the economy and considers their impact on society and nature as collateral damage (thanks Pope Francis for this one!). The same liberals that support the murder of unborn children should also come out in favor of human trafficking, the fur industry, drug trade, organized crime, deforestation, etc. as each also provides immediate satisfaction of our human desires and needs. You can't have it both ways.
I am moralizing here, and I am by no means perfect. There are no easy answers. This thread I believe also carried a reference to the confederate flag controversy. The flag is not the issue, and the rush to make it the scapegoat is comical. The real issue is as I said and quoted in the previous paragraphs; it is the devaluation of human life. Every life is sacred, born and unborn - yes, we should all be outraged.
So every member of the Republican party is against abortion? Are all of them white as well? I wonder if they all drink starbucks?
Can you draw me the line that connects being pro choice and pedophilia?
One has to believe that a fetus is a person for your argument to make logical sense.
I don't want to waste nuance on you. The point I was making (and everyone got except for you) is that no one celebrates abortion or thinks it's a wonderful thing when it happens. Some people believe it is the mother's right to decide whether she wants to carry the fetus.
The GOP plank always includes language to get rid of abortion. Only a complete moron thinks they give a crap about abortion except to get stupid people to vote for them.
Welcome aboard.
And what part of my comment said they did? (Or for that matter any of the previous that addressed your concern in this thread)
S
Stevedangos
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There is some great stuff out there on Scott Walker. That is the most hated dude in America.. The outrage over the rebel flag isn't fake. People have been sickened and embarrassed by it for years but they didn't have the balls to speak up. This was their chance.
Scott Walker has done more in his life than you ever will I have a feeling.
Supreme Court up there stopped the stupid investigations and lawsuits filed against hime this week because they they had zero merit. I wonder why some people have to hate succesfull people who stand up for whats right??
1. Scott Walker didn't even have the perseverance to complete the degree program he started.
2. The man has literally done nothing outside of politics his entire life. He went straight from dropping out to work on someone's campaign and has been living off the government teet non stop. You need to do more research Steve. He carries the torch for the Koch Bros. The Wisconsin economy is a shipwreck exacerbated by his policies and shenanigans.
duck isn't calling Scott walker a criminal or something like that, just someone he feels is not qualified to be president.
There are probably 300 M people in this country not under investigation for anything...that doesn't mean I want to vote for them to be pres.
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Shouldn't you be just as outraged by a party that doesn't care about the living? I find it morally repugnant that the wealthiest nation on earth doesn't provide health care to all, for instance.
I think this is a tough overall topic to have a good conversation about which is why I generally stay out of it, but I think your point about being pro abortion means you have to agree with x, y, and z is a total red herring.
My #1 concern remains that we should make it easier for women to avoid unplanned pregnancies. Whether abortion is legal or not is of less importance to me than this. I don't want people to have to make a life altering choice. I don't want people to have to have kids they aren't prepared to raise. And the prolife party is not aligned with my opinion on this, which makes it difficult for me to support the prolife position in America.
Look at Colorado's recent success in addressing this issue. That should be a template for us as a nation.
Kenny when there is a "medical condition" to be made how do you decide if the mother or the baby gets to live?
God forbid I turn a home intruder's head into a canoe, yet mention killing a baby and you get giddy.
Truly amazing. You're a father right? Heard that heart beat a 12 weeks? That did nothing for you?
That's pretty obvious isn't it? If we get it narrowed down to that decision then we made progress. Any other questions?
Been on the golf course, so will try to reply to Cowherd and Neutron in one post.
Cowherd - yes, I believe that in order for the sick @&$! to commit pedophelia that the first step is that the child must be dehumanized/objectified, no different than how those that kill fetuses might do in abortion. I don't believe that it is possible unless the humanity of the victim is removed. Interestingly this is also the case with the porn industry as a whole where women generally are reduced to objects to be used for pleasure.
Neutron - I respect you. Yes, I believe a solution needs to be found for health care and I believe it is a basic human right. I don't believe our politicians of either persuasion have the answer. They are too beholden to the legal and insurance industries. If I had the answer I probably wouldn't be on the board with you good folks. Don't make generalizations about me - honestly I am working hard to evaluate where I truly stand. I am not sure that there is a candidate or party that I truly support as I think that both parties are incredibly hypocritical. The two candidates that I would like to understand more thoroughly are Rubio, and O'Malley but I am not sure there is anyone that I will vote for without holding my nose,
Cowherd - yes, I believe that in order for the sick @&$! to commit pedophelia that the first step is that the child must be dehumanized/objectified, no different than how those that kill fetuses might do in abortion. I don't believe that it is possible unless the humanity of the victim is removed. Interestingly this is also the case with the porn industry as a whole where women generally are reduced to objects to be used for pleasure.
Neutron - I respect you. Yes, I believe a solution needs to be found for health care and I believe it is a basic human right. I don't believe our politicians of either persuasion have the answer. They are too beholden to the legal and insurance industries. If I had the answer I probably wouldn't be on the board with you good folks. Don't make generalizations about me - honestly I am working hard to evaluate where I truly stand. I am not sure that there is a candidate or party that I truly support as I think that both parties are incredibly hypocritical. The two candidates that I would like to understand more thoroughly are Rubio, and O'Malley but I am not sure there is anyone that I will vote for without holding my nose,
Not sure what porn you watch. but I've been told that the women also express a pleasure in this process.
To suggest that pro choice people somehow contribute to pedophilia is the height of stupidity. One, the fetus is not a person. It cannot survive outside the womb. Second, many people can and do differentiate between a fetus and a child. One is human and the other is not. No one is "dehumanizing" anything.
Nuance is not a strong suit among the pro lifers it seems.
Nuance is not a strong suit among the pro lifers it seems.
I guess I don't see how you define fetus.
If it is a baby still in the womb, they can survive outside the womb as young as 5 months old.
If it is when they can survive without assistance, that would be about 22 yrs old.
Needing the mother to survive does not make it not a baby.
I'm not giddy about anything like this.
Being a parent made me more cognizant of the responsibilities I bear. Being a parent is the hardest thing I will ever do in my life. And I was ready to be a parent
It's a pretty simple definition, not sure why you are struggling with it. Perhaps you could put the word fetus into google.
I know the dictionary definition but cowherd said a fetus can't survive outside the womb (not a baby).
My point was that they can't survive outside the womb when they aren't fetuses anymore making his point moot.
If survivability determines whether it's a baby, they need to be at least 3 years old (3 years AFTER birth).
My brother and his wife run a medical clinic in remote Haiti. They routinely take in babys 2 pounds and smaller, put them in a shoebox, put a heat lamp on them, and feed them through an eyedropper. They have a very high success rate without all the medical advances we have here. The term fetus is used to make the baby less human but just because it passes the birth canal doesn't change anything that couldn't have happened much sooner. If you are harvesting organs, you are dealing with a baby.
Yeah...you realize these organs are being used for scientific research and not transplants, right?
Yep. But, organs aren't found in early term abortions, not the ones being talked about anyways.
Why does the government or anyone else have the right to deny a woman the right to an abortion at 8 months??? It's HER body! It's not a baby, it's a fetus! It can't live without assistance!
At 8 months it could survive (conceivably) outside the womb. At, say, 3-4 months it's heart, lungs, etc are so underformed or even unformed that there is no way it could live outside the womb, thus not a "baby". Or at least not a viable one.
Why do you continue to talk about things you don't understand? The heart begins to form at 5 weeks old. The reason that scientists are interested in these organs is because they are underdeveloped.
I beg to differ the heart and in some cases the brain on this board, has never developed.
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