I figured it out a long time ago and your example is laughable. What's funny is to listen to you people complain about pay scale. Do you make more money than your boss? Wealth envy will make a man live a sad life.
Now that Duke and Kentucky have completely sold out
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I've never met a tuba player that gets tuition, books, lodging, and three meals a day. Could you please introduce me to one.
Wealth envy? Try common decency. You remind me of the preacher with $2,000 suits asking his flock to buy him a new jet. Thats not the point of preaching and it shouldnt be the point of an athletic program, especially one funded by taxpayers. There is a major movement toward giving athletes a stipend so move out of the 1980s, its a new world.
Take off your blinders and read my original post. I'm all in favor of a stipend....You jealous of the preacher's suit? You don't have to stop the plate when it comes by.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
This is the actual answer to your question.
So schools can steal the money and pay it to administrators and coaches?
This is the actual answer to your question.
I knew a number of people at Mizzou who were on scholarships covering at least tuition, food, and lodging once you included bright flight. Maybe not enough for books. All they had to do was keep a decent GPA. No work requirements.
We're talking merit-based aid to kids whose parents made 6 figures - no need-based subsidies.
If you had a 32+ on the ACT, really good grades and a couple of extracurriculars, you can usually get at least free/almost free tuition somewhere. Look at the following from SEMO:
http://www.semo.edu/sfs/financialaid/scholarships/freshmen.html
There's countless other programs like this for National Merit Finalist caliber kids.
This post was edited on 4/10 12:39 PM by Neutron Monster
In other words, your point was misguided so you're trying to redirect.
I think the value is different in pros v college due to recruiting (coaches are more valuable relative to players in college than in the pros) but the disparity in pay is silly. Coach Saban isn't 200 times more valuable than his best player.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
Lol. Who is stealing money? The corporate leadership team of my company makes a whole lot more than I do. Does that mean they're stealing from me? The players know the deal when they sign up. No one is forcing them to play. It's a job and the payment they get is pretty substantial. Thousands of dollars a year. I'd be for some spending money and/or travel money for them and parents to watch them play and it should come from the NCAA not the schools themselves. But that's it.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
For some perspective, the Mizzou football and basketball programs are bringing in over a million in revenue per student, yet they see a miniscule sliver of that even though they are a substantial part of why that revenue is raised. That's not true at basically any company - labor is receiving a much larger share of the revenue/profit.
The NCAA has many people conned into believing it is set up to provide a good deal to athletes. It is not. It is set up by college Presidents and ADs to ensure that they keep as much revenue and power as is possible.
The whole problem with your argument is you have an alternative - you can go to another company to increase your compensation. That's the check in the system that allows workers to keep a much higher share of the revenue they bring in. Players don't have that option in the NCAA because all of its employers act as a cartel.
For some perspective, the Mizzou football and basketball programs are bringing in over a million in revenue per student, yet they see a miniscule sliver of that even though they are a substantial part of why that revenue is raised. That's not true at basically any company - labor is receiving a much larger share of the revenue/profit.
The NCAA has many people conned into believing it is set up to provide a good deal to athletes. It is not. It is set up by college Presidents and ADs to ensure that they keep as much revenue and power as is possible.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
I 100% agree oldroundballer. I lived this very scenerio and didn't COMPLAIN one bit because I knew how good I had it. It also allowed me to purchase a vehicle with the money I had saved for college because I received A LOT of benefits from my scholarship.
I 100% agree oldroundballer. I lived this very scenerio and didn't COMPLAIN one bit because I knew how good I had it. It also allowed me to purchase a vehicle with the money I had saved for college because I received A LOT of benefits from my scholarship.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
- Say your current employer agrees with all of its competitors that it will only pay everyone $10 an hour from now on. The pay is the same everywhere. The work rules are the same, too.
Would you think that's a fair deal? After all, they are providing some valuable compensation to you for your work.
The answer is of course not, you're worth more than that.
This is how the NCAA has the public conned - people believe a scholarship is a fair deal. It may be for a wrestler, or a baseball player, but it isn't close to the fair market value for a top level football or basketball player.
Let me give you the comparable scenario:
- Say your current employer agrees with all of its competitors that it will only pay everyone $10 an hour from now on. The pay is the same everywhere. The work rules are the same, too.
Would you think that's a fair deal? After all, they are providing some valuable compensation to you for your work.
The answer is of course not, you're worth more than that.
This is how the NCAA has the public conned - people believe a scholarship is a fair deal. It may be for a wrestler, or a baseball player, but it isn't close to the fair market value for a top level football or basketball player.
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
Neutron, i realize how the NCAA works. But you also have to understand that this is the system and its been in place for a long time. And the majority of D1 colleges do not operate in the black. I would like to see your source for the million dollars generated per player.
Neutron, i realize how the NCAA works. But you also have to understand that this is the system and its been in place for a long time. And the majority of D1 colleges do not operate in the black. I would like to see your source for the million dollars generated per player.
I just don't think you guys understand the point. Just because your boss makes more than you doesn't make your pay restricted. You can go somewhere else or you could run your own business and possibly get paid more. College athletes don't have that option. The ncaa is literally saying that athletes can't make money, even on their own personal likeness that the ncaa has profited off of for decades. In what world is that fair?
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Posted from Rivals Mobile
I completely understand, so please quit saying that. They do have options. They can except the scholarship for what it is worth or they could reject it. By rejecting it, they could try and work 40 hours a week and go to class to try and cover that $25,000 a year expense. Or as cowherd said, the young whippersnappers could just start their own businesses and have unlimited potential. Because as we all know, owning and operating your own business is easy, especially between the ages of 18 and 22...
Coach, where do I sign!!
Coach, where do I sign!!
Actually, they don't have that option if they want to continue playing college athletics. You can't make money off of your likeness if you play a sport.
I'd pay them whatever I thought they were worth. That's the point. They should have that right, same as every other 18-22 year old in America.
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I'd pay them whatever I thought they were worth. That's the point. They should have that right, same as every other 18-22 year old in America.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
They do have that right, they don't have to participate in college athletics. It's still voluntary the last time I checked...Cowherd, you remind me of the teacher who bitches about her pay scale after a couple years on the job...You wouldn't happen to be a teacher would you?
Re: Restricting pay to college athletes
No one is talking about every d1 school paying kids. Just arguing that the power conference teams are.
The football program at basically every sec, big ten, big 12, acc, and pac 10 is a substantial revenue generator. At the big schools the revenues are 50-125 M per year. Plus mandated scholarship donations to get top tier season tickets on top of what is "football" revenue.
No one is talking about every d1 school paying kids. Just arguing that the power conference teams are.
The football program at basically every sec, big ten, big 12, acc, and pac 10 is a substantial revenue generator. At the big schools the revenues are 50-125 M per year. Plus mandated scholarship donations to get top tier season tickets on top of what is "football" revenue.
The teacher analogy is not remotely on point. Teachers have the option to change jobs for higher pay.
Let the market set the pay. And they should have collective bargaining rights like other employees.
It is on point Neutron. Because you bitching about pay not being fair just like teachers do...What's the chances you are a union member?
I'm not in a union and I'm not a teacher. I work at a place where I am paid what my employer deems as a market value for my services. I can quit at any time and move to a different company for higher pay. No one is capping my worth, same as every other American besides college athletes.
No one is capping their's either. Why can't you understand that? Slavery was abolished almost 150 years ago. Nobody is forcing them to do anything.
You must not read the political board very much of you're insinuating I am in a union.
Also you're missing the point. I'm not arguing a market based level of pay is unfair. What I am saying is that colleges are using the guise of amateurism to ensure they keep substantially all of the revenue and profits associated with major college athletics. These kids don't have a chance to get paid fairly due to oligopolistic practices of the ncaa.
This post was edited on 4/10 6:58 PM by Neutron Monster
Also you're missing the point. I'm not arguing a market based level of pay is unfair. What I am saying is that colleges are using the guise of amateurism to ensure they keep substantially all of the revenue and profits associated with major college athletics. These kids don't have a chance to get paid fairly due to oligopolistic practices of the ncaa.
This post was edited on 4/10 6:58 PM by Neutron Monster
In addition to slavery being illegal...it's also illegal for competing employers to conspire to artificially depress compensation under antitrust law. D1 colleges are the competing employers who have conspired to set an arbitrarily low level of pay for an entire market.
This is the core argument of the Kessler lawsuit, which stand a fair chance of winning in court.
you have yet to make a single substantive argument which hasn't been thoroughly debunked.
This post was edited on 4/10 9:05 PM by Neutron Monster
This is the core argument of the Kessler lawsuit, which stand a fair chance of winning in court.
you have yet to make a single substantive argument which hasn't been thoroughly debunked.
This post was edited on 4/10 9:05 PM by Neutron Monster
And, yes, by definition, the NCAA is capping compensation for athletics. What are you smoking? Compensation is limited to the full cost of attendance. That's a cap!
In addition to slavery being illegal...it's also illegal for competing employers to conspire to artificially depress compensation under antitrust law. D1 colleges are the competing employers who have conspired to set an arbitrarily low level of pay for an entire market.
This is the core argument of the Kessler lawsuit, which stand a fair chance of winning in court.
you have yet to make a single substantive argument which hasn't been thoroughly debunked.
This post was edited on 4/10 9:05 PM by Neutron Monster
What part of, NO ONE IS FORCING THEM TO PLAY can you not understand? I don't give two diddley poohs how much a university makes on athletics. If the student athlete has a problem with it, don't play and go flip burgers...And if you have such a problem with it, quit watching the games on TV and quit buying tickets and apparel. Put your money where your mouth is...However, I have a feeling you won't do that. Now go debunk something else.
This is the core argument of the Kessler lawsuit, which stand a fair chance of winning in court.
you have yet to make a single substantive argument which hasn't been thoroughly debunked.
This post was edited on 4/10 9:05 PM by Neutron Monster
What part of, NO ONE IS FORCING THEM TO PLAY can you not understand? I don't give two diddley poohs how much a university makes on athletics. If the student athlete has a problem with it, don't play and go flip burgers...And if you have such a problem with it, quit watching the games on TV and quit buying tickets and apparel. Put your money where your mouth is...However, I have a feeling you won't do that. Now go debunk something else.
And no one is forcing you to work. By that logic your employer should be able to form cartels so they could pay you no more than minimum wage.
Again, a spurious argument. They are laborers who are working to receive pay. The available employers have formed a cartel to depress that pay. It's very simple. We don't accept this an excuse in any other field.
You have fallen for the NCAA propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
strip everything you know about the situation away. Think about it like you just landed here from another country and aren't burdened by your past. What would you see? You'd see kids who are workers. You'd see employers who are conspiring to artificially depress pay for an entire industry.
They use the historical veneer of amateurism and not for profit status to deceive you into believing something else. This isn't 1950. These schools are making a ton of money.
Again, a spurious argument. They are laborers who are working to receive pay. The available employers have formed a cartel to depress that pay. It's very simple. We don't accept this an excuse in any other field.
You have fallen for the NCAA propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
strip everything you know about the situation away. Think about it like you just landed here from another country and aren't burdened by your past. What would you see? You'd see kids who are workers. You'd see employers who are conspiring to artificially depress pay for an entire industry.
They use the historical veneer of amateurism and not for profit status to deceive you into believing something else. This isn't 1950. These schools are making a ton of money.
It's funny how you say I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Yet I would bet everyone penny I got that you watch college football every Saturday. You watched almost every NCAA tournament game. And you have NCAA apparel in your closet and dresser...Who has fell for it hook, line, and sinker?
Keep up the good fight Neutron. And until you quit watching games, and buying tickets and clothes; you're nothing but a hypocrite.
Keep up the good fight Neutron. And until you quit watching games, and buying tickets and clothes; you're nothing but a hypocrite.
Way to redirect after I shredded all of your substantive claims.
One can enjoy the product but also advocate for change.
And I watched the ncaa tourney and the bcs. That's about it. I watch the pros generally. Games are higher quality. Especially basketball - ncaa needs to improve its basketball product. The physicality is out of control producing low scoring, boring games.
One can enjoy the product but also advocate for change.
And I watched the ncaa tourney and the bcs. That's about it. I watch the pros generally. Games are higher quality. Especially basketball - ncaa needs to improve its basketball product. The physicality is out of control producing low scoring, boring games.
Lol...I didn't realize this was a contest. You have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder don't you Neutron....You still can't grasp the fact that these kids receive thousands of dollars a year in benefits and NO ONE is forcing them to do it. I never once said I like the NCAA, and it's actually as bloated as our federal government(which is not good)....Neutron, I think I've figured you out. Were you picked last in kickball every time? Did you not receive that college scholarship your dad told you your were going to get when you were in 5th grade?...Have a great weekend. I'm finished wasting time on this. Cheers!
You realize that many of these kids could make more than that on the open market, right? Why is the fact they receive a scholarship and a stipend mean that's all they should get? Literally no other job market in the United States operates the way the NCAA cartel does.
I laugh that you call it a cartel...You are absolutely correct about what you just said. That why I'm absolutely correct by saying they don't have to play college athletics if they think they are getting short changed. Maybe they could follow that tuba player and get a great job during college with and endless amount of earning potential....Whether you like it or not, the NCAA makes the rules, and they have to play by them or find something else to do. It's that simple. Good day! It's beer 30!
That's a really dumb argument. Again by that logic your employer should be allowed to screw you by violating antitrust law because you could find another job in another field.
Lol...there is no argument here. I'm not arguing with anybody. What you fail to realize(because apparently you have little man syndrome and think this is about winning an argument) is the NCAA sets the rules, period. The compensation and benefits is a full ride scholarship. Just like your employer sets the rules. If you don't like it, move on. It is truly that simple....I chose to except that full ride scholarship so I didn't have to work during college or have to pay off student loans when I was finished...How about you Neutron, are you still paying off those college loans? Is that the chip on your shoulder?
Did you get picked last in kickball as well? Thanks for that piece of information Captain Obvious!!
