How much difference does coaching really make?

[Pancho and Lefty]

I was reading on twitter a post where a coach was praising another coach, asking him his secret to his programs success. What true difference does coaching really make? I have always said I have never watched a game and said, these are the sorriest bunch of athletes I've seen, but the coach pulled out the win for them". Trivial I know, but scale of one to 10 what would you say a coach's influence is? I would say 3-4. For example, Coach Rod at Webb City has done an amazing job. Many have tried to take his system with nowhere near the success. On the other hand, would someone else coaching Grant Wistrom have been successful as well? No disrespect intended at all.

I hear Ed Ogeron speak one time. He said Jimmy Johnson gave him the best coaching advice ever. He said you want to know the secret to being a great coach? Get great players.

 

[Graphic Edge Guy]

Coaching football is like teaching PE...all you gotta do is roll the ball out...at least that's what most people seem to think...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Graphic Edge Guy]

“He can take his’n and beat your’n, or take your’n and beat his’n” (coaching adage)

“That Fa-rott, he’s so good that he can take his’n and beat your’n or he can take your’n and beat his’n” was said by Clemson head football coach Frank Howard (1909-1996) about Missouri head football coach Don Faurot (1902-1995).

The saying was said about college football coach Paul “Bear” Bryant (1913-1983) in 1960...

and again in 1974. NFL Houston Oilers head coach Bum Phillips (1923-2013) said it in 1979 about Miami Dolphins head coach Don Shula.

 

[r14veer]

“He can take his’n and beat your’n, or take your’n and beat his’n” (coaching adage)

“That Fa-rott, he’s so good that he can take his’n and beat your’n or he can take your’n and beat his’n” was said by Clemson head football coach Frank Howard (1909-1996) about Missouri head football coach Don Faurot (1902-1995).

The saying was said about college football coach Paul “Bear” Bryant (1913-1983) in 1960...

and again in 1974. NFL Houston Oilers head coach Bum Phillips (1923-2013) said it in 1979 about Miami Dolphins head coach Don Shula.

Coaches can put their kids in good situations to help win games, but ultimately players have to execute in individual games. Great athletes make this much easier obviously, as you have a greater margin for error. On the other hand, coaches can definitely lose a game with untimely decisions and a myriad of other things down to how the program is run, adjusting systems (or not) with personnel, etc.

 

[kaching]

I have found I’m a much better coach when I have the fastest kids on the field.

 

[Duck_walk]

If I didn’t think coaching mattered, I wouldn’t have done it. But how much does it matter is a good question.

I have coached teams where one senior athlete not coming out made us weaker at five different positions. Other years we have had stud athletes decide to play football as a senior and they put us over the top.
I would say it’s 90% players.

But whatever it is, coaching football is fun as hell and that was the main reason I coached.
Loved it.

 

[Duck_walk]

Here’s one for you:

My son had a math project where he had to analyze data and show correlation. When calculating correlation and regression, an “r” factor is derived, showing if the data correlates or not....

Anyway, he looked at the recruits at USC from the years 2009-2017. He gave each year a score based on the following formula: Each 5 star athlete was worth 3 points and each 4 star athlete was worth one point, then (because numbers are important in football) the sum of 5 and 4 star athletes were added to the score.

In short: Recruiting score = (# of five star athletes x 3) + (# of four star athletes) + (total # of five and four star athletes)

He assumed each class would have their biggest impact three seasons later. He then compared the recruiting factor to the winning % of the team three years afterwards.

The results were surprising. In mathematics, correlation is expressed with an “r factor”. The closer to 1 the r factor is, the higher the correlation is between the two sets of data. I would have assumed the better the recruiting class, the better the team would do in a few years.

Not so, at least, not at USC the past 8 seasons; in fact, there was actually a slight negative correlation between the two sets of data. There was (as a whole) actually better seasons with lower ranked recruiting classes, while those highly touted recruiting classes didn’t do as well.

Of course, there are many other undetermined and unknown factors to consider. Did these kids stay at USC? Did they transfer? Did they suffer career ending injuries? Get suspended? Was there a position or head coaching change?

If nothing else, this small set of data shows us that just because a team has extraordinary talent, it doesn’t automatically equal success on the field.

Until mathematicians derive the equation that can quantify the human spirit - like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop....the world may never know.

Hard to measure levels of “buy-in and selfishness”. And while those are player traits, you have to think coaches have a big impact on those attributes.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

If I didn’t think coaching mattered, I wouldn’t have done it. But how much does it matter is a good question.

I have coached teams where one senior athlete not coming out made us weaker at five different positions. Other years we have had stud athletes decide to play football as a senior and they put us over the top.
I would say it’s 90% players.

But whatever it is, coaching football is fun as hell and that was the main reason I coached.
Loved it.

I think you are right on. Class 4 and down it’s pretty amazing what 1 or 2 great players or the lack there of makes. Glad to see you back. I’ve been worried about you and Eagles ball not being able to manage the Cardinals every night.

 

[Duck_walk]

I think you are right on. Class 4 and down it’s pretty amazing what 1 or 2 great players or the lack there of makes. Glad to see you back. I’ve been worried about you and Eagles ball not being able to manage the Cardinals every night.

I am watching Pujols day on MLB right now.
He just took Lidge deep. Bahahahahaha

 

[Missouri Kid]

Hard to measure levels of “buy-in and selfishness”. And while those are player traits, you have to think coaches have a big impact on those attributes.

No doubt about that in my mind.
Win-loss record be damned, I have always measured a coach by the following:
He doesn't let his team lose to a team they shouldn't lose to.
He wins most of the toss-up games his team plays in.
And, he occasionally (sometimes routinely) wins a game where they were clearly dogs and weren't supposed to, and probably shouldn't have, won.

 

[Pancho and Lefty]

I am watching Pujols day on MLB right now.
He just took Lidge deep. Bahahahahaha

The look on the fans faces behind home plate when he hit that! Man what a bomb.