Get rid of conferences..
- Thread starter MoSooner69
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before any kind of playoff?... Now that is going way back... but even with that reasoning, the answer is still NO.. because they still award that trophy (plaque) for winning conference, but now you have a chance to get district, and so on... so way more today.
I am far from having a participation trophy mindset and I am completely open to different ways of doing things. I think many conferences could go away and nothing would be lost. But there are a few that have some real meaning and I dont think you are going to get schools to agree to disband them. Big 8 is one that comes to mind.
I think the "meaning" of the Big 8 took a step in the wrong direction when they went to 2 divisions. Also Mac and Nevada will never feel like Big 8 teams to me and many others, who have been in and around the conference for decades. I mean there are two conference champions for what a lot of AD's are trying to sell as one conference. Why in the heck did they keep "8" in the name when there are 14 schools? Makes zero sense. Nevada and Mac need to be out, bring Aurora and Mt. Vernon back in and let the East side come up with some other name for their new conference, and let them add Bolivar. I'm not opposed to dropping conferences all together at this point. It means nothing to win. I just want to see the best teams moving on after district play, and get to see quality football come semi and championship time which hasn't been the case in some recent years. Shouldn't be seeing 30 and 40 points wins in those late round games. If we do then we have to many classes.
I think the "participation trophy" comments are unjustified in regards to HS sports. Youth sports 100%. A team that has a great year, and wins a conference title and a district title but doesn't win a state title does not mean they won participation trophy. As mentioned above some conferences and districts may have 3-4 state ranked teams. To win that conference or district but lose in in sectional game or quarterfinal shouldn't diminish a great season. I am sure everyone on here posting about "participation trophies" has won a state title. smh. Kids getting recognized for all conference and all district is nothing to diminish. There are only 6 titles being handed out yearly. Oh, and the ones that complain about private vs. public school and having there own separate playoffs, that is a even more way of "participation trophy" mentality.
All Conference picks are watered down as they get! Coaches who do not win a conference game nominate 5 players for all conference in basketball. SMH.
You are right, there are more trophies in number now because of playoffs, but the champion gets 3 or 4 of them (district, quarter, semi, champ), the runner up gets 3-4, the semifinalists get 2-3, etc. So, while there are more in number overall, they aren't necessarily distributed to more teams, which undercuts (but doesn't necessarily negate) the "everyone" getting a trophy argument.
Really, the view I took in making this argument is more that the only trophy that matters is the end trophy, so I was only taking into account the end trophy awarded for a "championship." There are only 6 end trophies now and pre-1968 there were a heck of a lot more end trophies. I know; it's not my strongest argument, but a lot more teams used to end the season thinking they were champions than do now.
Well, the playoffs have greatly diminished the importance of the conference championships, but at least a team like Carthage has that to put in their trophy case after a very promising year.
I agree. Coaches shouldn't allow that. I am a proponent of 1 all conference team and 1 All district team...No need for 2nd team and honorable mention
I'm not sure why we do it at all, but I have no feelings on it one way or the other. It could cease to exist right this second or continue on forever, and I do not care about all-whatever teams.
The whole participation trophy narrative on here is nauseating. Nothing in the current or old system remotely resembles a participation trophy where literally every team gets a trophy. That's what they do in t-ball.
Honestly there is a part of me that wouldn't care at all if the whole playoff system just went away and everyone just played the sport, regular season and were done. Not a popular opinion I'm sure but I don't know. Makes the regular season matter more, right now it's just practice games.
Conference champs in my opinion doesn't mean much even though in some cases it's a solid accomplishment, such as in the case of Carthage. Not many teams that could run through this year's COC winning every game by the margins they did. But as others have said, it just doesn't mean much. Not anymore. I'm sure a few people around town will get t-shirts because unfortunately it's really the only defining statement of what was arguably one of the best teams ever from C town.
There are only 8 teams that get a first place plaque right now? If we did it your way, their would still be 8 plaques. Oh and every team would still “make the playoffs” because they round robin through their district. It’s not different. And it’s certainly not any less “participation trophy”
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That may be the way some conferences do it, I don't know. I do know that the meetings I have been in (football and basketball) the coaches only nominated those they deemed worthy. If someone tried to nominate his whole team then many deemed him not credible and therefore it may have cost some worthy players from getting a vote. The discussions following the nominations were sometimes brutal, sometimes hilarious, but always entertaining. By and large the coaches knew who the best players were at every position before they got to the meeting. What got interesting was resolving ties, especially 2nd team and hon. mention selections.
now in many(most?) conferences the number of all-conference players is based on the conference record. there is no voting, each team's coach supplies the number of his players allotted. For example, the first place team may get ten players, second team seven, third team five and so on . Even last place gets a couple. so, the all-conference team might have four quarterbacks and only four linemen on the team
And even if they nominate them all, that doesn't mean they have to be voted for?
MMmm... This lil Johny is a sr and worked hard for 4 years so lets put him on the all conference Honorable Mention list!
So the 0-10 team gets 2 all conference kids that is probably taken away from someone more deserving?
If you just have 1 team it takes care of that. Even if you expand the list a couple spots. I don't like 2nd team and honorable mention for the exact reason you just said. Feel good stories that keep a more worthy kid of making the team. This is up to the coaches to decide how these picks are made. At the end of the day, I am sure there are outside forces and pressures on the coaches that have made the selection of teams way too easy.
My 3rd year coaching had a Dad meet me at my vehicle at school on Monday morning after they were picked. Demanded why he kid was not all conference pick. I told him I can only nominate. Which I nominated him and 3 others and told him I can not vote for my own kids. We had 3 unanimous all conference picks, so all the votes went to those 3 kids and not his. Just the way it fell that year. Dad didnt want to hear it though and stormed off.
It's interesting though how coaches vote vs the media polls. When I was in high school, I made first team on both of the teams that coaches voted on. Didn't get anything on the media teams which went off stats only.
Interesting, I didn't realize anyone even cared that much about all conference selections. I don't really even understand the point. I see them announced every year but never pay attention and figured no one else did either because I follow the local HS football more than most.
You see sonny boy, for the reasons above, none of these ADs wanna have more work on their shoulders, the system is set up for not knowing districts until that gosh durned week before the first game. Institutional inertia will prevent anything like this from ever happenin.
that's one mindset...and not a good one. Honestly, I don't really see where this adds work to ADs at all...and I've been an AD.You see sonny boy, for the reasons above, none of these ADs wanna have more work on their shoulders, the system is set up for not knowing districts until that gosh durned week before the first game. Institutional inertia will prevent anything like this from ever happenin.
You have to find 3 games a year....the same weeks as everyone else 1-3. Allows flexibility of scheduling whether you are good or bad for your first three games. Last 7 games would be determined by a fixed schedule from the state. Also it would change each year allowing for different match ups. Rivalries will always be preserved weeks 1-3 if both parties wish.
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Never heard that as a justification for selection to any team. Of course that was 35-40 years ago so maybe today..........? I do recall one of the most debated selections was whether a kid that was unanimous selection previous year, and would have been in the current year, went down with season ending injury halfway through the season. I cannot recall how that was resolved but like I said, 35-40 years ago.
It would be more work for someone as they tried to balance home away game with a yearly changing schedule.
Some things are just SO obvious to people with good reasoning skills, while others can't see the obvious ridiculosity of seeding teams BEFORE the season starts.
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LOL you claim to be around the conference for decades? What were you born in the late 80's? you probable think Monett and cAssville are rivials LOL.. For starters the Big 8/11/12/13/14 whatever the number for that year always had two divisions. Also Nevada was one of the founding members of the conference So it actually made alot of sense to add them back, I remember Monett playing them in conference, and it wasn't all that long ago.
Now I do agree the current breakdowns to the division don't make much sense. The person or person's who put Aurora Mt Vernon and Monett in Seperate division probable needs to be fired. The history between those three schools playing is incredible and just sad that somebody threw that all away for what? So if rivials are not going to play anymore let's just break the conference down by school size big 8 large and big 8 small
Also there were many blowouts in the 70's and 80's I am sure you just don't remember them matchups were based on points not by on the field play, many times the first and second place teams never played once to settle who was actually better it was settled by points and the number one moved on. So I would rather have what we have now were it is decided on the feild than the old points system of the late 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure there are blow outs but the goal is to settle who is best, back when you are talking Many good schools didn't even get a chance make the playoffs.
Happened in the big 8 years ago, forced to take Mac County and Seneca.
Dont listen to Calvin. The dude is a nincompoop!
I think winning an All COC honor is a lot more impressive than District honors. The COC is stacked with talent.
Instead of “everyone gets a trophy”—it is now “everyone gets a ring.” Whoever started handing out rings to youth sports needs slapped.
Instead of “everyone gets a trophy”—it is now “everyone gets a ring.” Whoever started handing out rings to youth sports needs slapped.
