D-1 verse D-2-RUMOR

[ah02]

Lets debate this. I disagree with RUMOR, ASU could beat KWC and SMS would easily defeat KWC by 20 points or so............


Difference in talent and size is a determining factor........

 

[hoop30]

No way, lots of D-2's could beat a lot of D-1's. Most of the elite D-2's are made up primarily of d-1 transfers and men that could not qualify or even too old to play D-1. I have seen and played against a lot of d-2 teams that would easy beat some of the ohio and missouri valley teams.

 

[ah02]

Some of the elite D-11's like your Kentucky Wesleyan's, Southern Indiana along with others would beat many of the lower tier d-1's. I do think you need to watch how loosely you use the term "easily" as far as D-2 teams beating teams in the OVC and Missouri Valley. Most nights, even the elite D-2 would struggle and against the majority of the teams in those two conferences with the exception in recent years to SEMO or maybe a Samford.

Here is a example: Two years ago, Kentucky Wesleyan went to Cinncinnati for a preseason scrimmage and lost by 35.

Last year Union University, a perennial power in NAIA lost to UT Martin....

 

[Stormin_Norman]

Georgetown, KY NAIA Division I Power played the University of Pittsburgh to a 5 point game early in the 2003-04 season.

 

[Mtroy79]

Well I won't say KW would easily beat ASU or SMS but i will say they would win. Talent wise its not much of a difference and height for some of the lower tier schools isn't different as well. You can't use a scrimmage against cincy as you basis come on ASU or SMS playing Cincy as well would get blasted by 35 points as well.

 

[ah02]

I was not using it as my basis, I was simply giving an example of a score.

Georgetown college actually beat Division 1 Wagner at that same tournament at the University of Pittsburgh.

 

[The Rumor]

The conference you are referring to, the GLVC with Southern Indiana and Kent. Wes. among other schools, usually has 2-3 schools in it yearly that could win the OVC and 1-2 of those could probably fight to win the MVC--not beat last year's SIUC but probably beat the rest of the conference (Bradley? Drake? UNI? please). I saw Lewis play last year, and they would have DRILLED SMS on a neutral court. These are teams with players from schools like Michigan and other good D-I schools that either couldn't qualify, weren't recruited right, wanted to transfer from a D-I but didn't want to sit a year, or have some discipline problems. You could ask Coach Bernsen at SEMO what he thinks about this; he'd probably have an answer along these lines. Hell, SEMO lost to Rolla last year and Rolla could only beat about 3 or 4 of the teams in the GLVC. Now granted that SEMO's terrible, but the level of competition that SEMO plays in conference is no higher than the competition he faced at UMSL save for a couple of bad schools in the GLVC. The top of D-II ball is better than the dregs of D-I. If you watch the D-II championship game you are probably watching two teams that, if they truly took the best 64 teams and made college hoops tourney of them, would most definitely be in that field. Are they Top 25 teams? No, but they're Top 50ish. I wish LimaLaker were on this board...he'd back me up here. At the very least, the top teams in D-II are lightyears ahead of the bottom of D-I in terms of skill.
This post was edited on 5/21 2:13 AM

 

[ah02]

The top two teams in D-2 are definitely NOT top 50 or NCAA tournament quality teams. I know fully well of the GLVC and the level of talent as I was recruited by Lewis U. Lewis would have drilled SMS on a neutral court?? I know first hand because I played at that level and their ain't no way Lewis is drilling SMS on a neutral court. They would have a CHANCE to win in romeoville....maybe. Now I'll grant you that the Southern Indiana and KWC of the world would beat the SEMO team of this year, but SEMO aint no mid major.. I dont' disagree with you stating that the top d-2 is better then bottom d-1's, but most of the schools you name are probably in the middle of the d-1 pile, not at the bottom. Having played against schools such as Southern Indiana, KWC, and even the upper echelon teams of the NAIA like Georgetown college,McKendree, etc, I see that 75% of the time, the mid-major(175 rpi and lower) will come out on top.....

Its kind of like comparing D-1 juco to D-2 juco, it just aint happening....

 

[The Rumor]

I stand by my comment that Lewis and Southern Indiana could have won the OVC and would drill SMS on a neutral court. Those teams are better than most college mid-majors. The best few teams (5-10) in D-II are all among the Top 100 teams in basketball because they are filled with kids that couldn't qualify, have discipline problems, were somehow not recruited, or transferred and didn't want to sit a year. It's not like Lewis or Southern Indiana could win the NCAA title or anything at D-I, but they would be in the top half of the MVC and come in the top two or three and possibly win the OVC. These are very good teams.

 

[Gusheimer]

Sorry, RUMOR, maybe the D-II at the top of the heap COULD beat the teams you are describing, but it's a bit strong to say they WOULD. There's no way to ever know, because they simply aren't going to be playing each other. I grant you, some might be playing a D-II school, but it's far and few between. It's just too hard on the D-I's strength of schedule to play them.

 

[mackim53]

my two cents worth lol
This is really a hard question. I think on a given night several top D-2 teams could win over a D-1 and maybe a given year complete all year in a D-1 conference, heck i have seen years when i felt some of the Juco teams i've seen could compete of a D-1 level.
We have to take in consideration a lot of things. A lot of the lower D-1 teams are playing a lot better compitions night in - night out and look to be a very weak team but could prove to be much better than was thought playing a D-2 team. {granted some just suck lol, sorry} Even a lot of the lower D-1 teams that suck, are much better than they appear
playing a much better D-1 team.
I do however think the talent level is not a great difference but maybe just enough to make a difference. A game would be the ONLY way to know for sure.
Now i'am not a expert but am a former Sports writer/editor and have seen many games over the years.

 

[The Rumor]

Do teams in the OVC really play better competition than D-II teams? I don't think so. The reason that these D-I teams won't play a team like Lewis is that they don't want to get DRILLED. It's the same reason good mid-majors generally have trouble finding games. Look at the kids being recruited to the lower D-I's from MO--yeah they steal a Tipler every once in a blue moon but are they really any better than the kids who go to Rolla or CMS? Hell, Pat Schumacher showed up at CMS this year and had a good season--a case of a player who was over his head at a big D-I school (MU) who would have been a starter in the MVC or OVC but played D-II because of Kim Anderson and he could play. Yeah the OVC has a couple of good teams, but these teams play schools like SEMO ten-fifteen times a year; is that any better than playing Rolla?

 

[mackim53]

Rumor, like i said a game would be the only way to know for sure and the D-1 has no incentive to play the strong D-2. If the D-1 wins everybody say's well they are D-1, they should win. on the other hand if they lose everybody makes fun of them saying you got beat by a D-2 team. I might tend to agree that some of the top D-2 teams are better than the lower D-1 teams but i don't think it would be as big a difference as you may think. {just my opinion}
A few years ago Three Rivers had a team i felt could have completed with a lot of mid-major D-1 teams. Don't remember the year but they were big, fast and played good defence. I think we had two guys go Major D-1 and two mid-major off that team and all started at the next level. However as good as they were - could they have completed with some of the mid-majors? -- I would have liked to have seen them play one.
This is a interesting subject that we can debate all we want but none of us really know unless the game is played. Another point to ponder -- i think who the Coach is for each team would also factor in this.
AS always just my humble opinion.

 

[DangJack]

For what it's worth...

NAIA D-II Cedarville University (Ohio) beat Wright State (NCAA D-I) last year, 68-66.

This sort of upset doesn't happen regularly, but it can happen. In my opinion, this is about as big as an upset can get. It's such an honor for an NAIA D-II just to play a NCAA D-I school. Can you imagine beating them on their home floor?

 

[ah02]

Cedarville is a very good NAIA D-2 program. That is an excellent example of why most D-1 teams wont schedule D-2 or NAIA teams. Cedarville walked away with a big win and a nice paycheck from Wright STate and that was a guarentee game for Wright State that went bad....

 

[DangJack]

Yeah, when a school is that much of a favorite over another, they have nothing to gain by playing that program. It's a lose-lose situation for one, and win-win for the other.