Class 1 Catch All
- Thread starter knockemofftheball
- Start date
See, I don't think everyone is thinking that, just you. While we're at it, your very screen name reveals that you need to tell everyone that you either are or were a "Football Coach" which only tends to offer the impression that you actually were a poor one or want people to believe you actually have experience and/or knowledge. None of which has been demonstrated. You just wish you were that guy.
No, more are thinking it. When you come across as aggressive as you are, you shouldn't be surprised. This response doesn't make it any better for you.
Boy you sure an internet tough guy aren't you. HEY EVERYONE!! LOOK OVER HERE!! WE HAVE A MESSAGE BOARD WARRIOR!! I just prefer to be challenged in life, you can go ahead settle. Am I typing this from my safe place? Ha, please little boy(or girl, or what whatever you choose to pick. For all I know you are a 12 year old boy using your daddy's sign on and pissed of Lamar won't let you use the girls locker room) . I have 47 months of time between Iraq and Afghanistan and work in corrections. Guess I will have to wait for my safe place. Class 2 would be a safe place I suppose if you don't want to move up and play big boy football.
You are a fine example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Thanks for the fun times, I'm out. Maybe somebody else that was at the all state meetings can explain chit people want to know about.
[QUOTE="hangmanbobbyjaggers, post: 233352, member: 3776"Why should Lamar have to move up just because they won state? That makes no sense at all?.That is what all this debate is about. Personally, I do not see the problem. Other teams need to get better. There is no settling. Every season is harder each year. Seems to me world has become a place of handouts instead of working for what you get. Lamar has earned that right to be atop until someone knocks them off or their numbers they have to move up. No different than the Webb City run.][/QUOTE]
Its not like they have only won a state title. They have built a dynasty. Now consider the fact they are winning these games by 2+ scores. Funny part is I don't completely agree to being mandated to move up a class. I believe it should be voluntary. Now I don't if Lamar or Webb City would have done or do that. I personally would, but that's just me. I am not the kind that just settles.
Its not like they have only won a state title. They have built a dynasty. Now consider the fact they are winning these games by 2+ scores. Funny part is I don't completely agree to being mandated to move up a class. I believe it should be voluntary. Now I don't if Lamar or Webb City would have done or do that. I personally would, but that's just me. I am not the kind that just settles.
Because I have the utmost respect and admiration for those who serve, I'll apologize for the "safe place" comment. I just surprises me that someone with a military background would have that mentality. You are suggesting that if one can't compete, eliminate the stronger competitors. You tell me, with all honesty that you believe that. You are the one who started with the confrontational language. "It sounds to me like you are ok sitting in a smaller class, building up as many trophies as you can, the easiest way possible. Notice it's always the dominate ones that bitch when this is brought up." This concept of schools "choosing" to sit in a small class... what the heck? We don't choose to "sit' anywhere. We compete within the confines of the class we are positioned in. What's it to you that you have to bash on a team that you obviously know nothing about? All because of the success that they've achieved? How do you justify what you are proposing?
Could do the way California does and have an "open Class" championship, in which any teams that want to compete in the "Open Class" can compete.
Imagine a 16 team "Open Class" of
Lamar
Webb City
Maryville
Kearney
Kirkwood
CBC
Rockhurst
Valle
Penney
Monett
Harrisonville
Blue Springs South
Battle
Fort Zumwalt North
Blair Oaks
Vianney
Imagine a 16 team "Open Class" of
Lamar
Webb City
Maryville
Kearney
Kirkwood
CBC
Rockhurst
Valle
Penney
Monett
Harrisonville
Blue Springs South
Battle
Fort Zumwalt North
Blair Oaks
Vianney
Yes, I erroneously assumed you could understand what most of us already do, so I guess we all are examples. And yeah, we've all heard doubters and haters before. good riddance.
The success multiplier it dumb. Lamar has had 2-3 really good teams that would have probably won class 3. They have had 3-4 good teams that worked hard and won class 2 Championships. Next years team should be very good again but they could see the biggest drop off sense this run started after that. Why would you punish that group of kids by making them play out of class when based on hard work they could have a shot at a class 2 title. Rather than trying to get Lamar thrown out of the class for their success why not get your kids in the weight room and out on the track. They may have a drop off on paper after next year but will probably still be one of if not the top team in class 2 because they will out work all of the rest. There is nothing stopping any other team from doing the same.
Maybe Alabama should get kicked out of the NCAA and forced to play in the NFL...no? And NDSU up to FBS,,,and Northwest Missouri State up to FCS? Where does it end?
My response to you was not nearly as confrontational as yours. I remember several years ago this "success multiplier" was brought up, Webb City reacted the same way. It was an overreaction. I don't understand why the idea of making things competitive becomes so offensive. No one, ever, should be outraged by the idea of competition.
That being said, it should not be manditory. School ADs and head coaches should be approached and given the option to advance a class for a year or 2.
I think this is a moot point. The "success multiplier" will not pass in this state at this time with MSHSAA schools. Under the new government administrations, it might in the future because of the way public schools may be able to conduct business.
Like all things, succesful programs are cyclical. At some point, the dynasty will end. Celebrate the run, or relish the opportunity to take it down, but above all else let it ride. There has already been enough shaking things up with the crossover brackets and district rules. I'd like to see a little patience.
I agree...
No one should be outraged at the idea of competition. Isn't that what places like Webb, Lamar, Maryville, etc do?? Encourage other teams across the state to jump in and work on their program in hopes of knocking those #1 teams off?? You don't hear coaches, the boys, or parents from Mt View Liberty say 'wish Lamar would have to move on up'....no, they want a shot at us. (Just using that as an example). Unless you've been thru our program you have no idea on how hard our team works, yet you want to penalize our boys and staff because they're doing too good?? I've never understood that. We play up, almost the whole season, as well as try to schedule tough teams like Valle to help improve our program. It was not that long ago that we went 0-10.... before this run i think the last time we made it to post season play was 1988 ('89 graduating class). It's not like we've been like this for decades.
No one should be outraged at the idea of competition. Isn't that what places like Webb, Lamar, Maryville, etc do?? Encourage other teams across the state to jump in and work on their program in hopes of knocking those #1 teams off?? You don't hear coaches, the boys, or parents from Mt View Liberty say 'wish Lamar would have to move on up'....no, they want a shot at us. (Just using that as an example). Unless you've been thru our program you have no idea on how hard our team works, yet you want to penalize our boys and staff because they're doing too good?? I've never understood that. We play up, almost the whole season, as well as try to schedule tough teams like Valle to help improve our program. It was not that long ago that we went 0-10.... before this run i think the last time we made it to post season play was 1988 ('89 graduating class). It's not like we've been like this for decades.
would those in favor of the success multiplier also be in favor of teams going 0-10 moving down a class? The main argument I hear for it is to make things competitive. So 0-10 teams that aren't competitive could use the same argument. What happens tho when a team has lost their first 7 games and play another winless team, and both coaches are trying to lose so they can be rewarded and compete better the next year. Just a thought. I don't think you can move up successful teams without moving down unsuccessful teams for the same reasons of competitiveness.
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Should they have banned usain bolt and Michael phelps from the olympics. The argument, "for the sake of competition", that someone said earlier, says that they shouldn't have been allowed to compete. They were too dominant. They should have made Jackie Joyner kersey compete with the men because she was too good, she should've stepped up to challenge herself more. See how dumb that sounds?
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I remember the great girls basketball teams of Incarnate Word asking to move up and MSHSAA denied the request a few years back
*"Success multiplier" is a strange concept. MSHSAA should attempt to create classes of similar-size schools, not the most competitive. Same with the playoff brackets. Stop trying to create parity for the sake of giving crappy teams a better chance. These teams/coaches that don't ever win anything should try to do a better job, as opposed to finding creative ways to tweak the system so that they have something to be proud of.
**The "Lamar would have won Class 3 some years," "Valle would have won Class 2 (edit)," "Webb would have won Class 6," etc. gets very old. People around the state that are knowledgeable respect what those, and other successful programs, do and have done. It is pointless and annoying for some fans to make exaggerated (and conveniently un-provable) assumptions like these. Just because a team beat the bigger school down the road does not at all mean they would have won the bigger class. Faulty logic. And pointless, whether it is true or not.
**This observation is not directed at any single fan-base, so Lamar people no need to go in attack-mode. I have noticed, over the years, an odd phenomenon: when a team has success, especially extended success, members and supporters of that program become consumed with making sure they are the center of every conversation. What's wrong with saying, "We were the best team in our Class this year?" Our conference is the best, our region of the state is the best, our program is the best regardless of class, this team is one of the best in state history, our fans are the most sportsmanlike, our coaches are the most noble, our concessions are the best, we play the game the right way, other teams don't understand what it takes like we do, etc., etc. Ugh. Gag me. All of us should enjoy our successes. But stop make asses out of yourselves.
**The "Lamar would have won Class 3 some years," "Valle would have won Class 2 (edit)," "Webb would have won Class 6," etc. gets very old. People around the state that are knowledgeable respect what those, and other successful programs, do and have done. It is pointless and annoying for some fans to make exaggerated (and conveniently un-provable) assumptions like these. Just because a team beat the bigger school down the road does not at all mean they would have won the bigger class. Faulty logic. And pointless, whether it is true or not.
**This observation is not directed at any single fan-base, so Lamar people no need to go in attack-mode. I have noticed, over the years, an odd phenomenon: when a team has success, especially extended success, members and supporters of that program become consumed with making sure they are the center of every conversation. What's wrong with saying, "We were the best team in our Class this year?" Our conference is the best, our region of the state is the best, our program is the best regardless of class, this team is one of the best in state history, our fans are the most sportsmanlike, our coaches are the most noble, our concessions are the best, we play the game the right way, other teams don't understand what it takes like we do, etc., etc. Ugh. Gag me. All of us should enjoy our successes. But stop make asses out of yourselves.
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Preach on Brotha, you forgot best cheerleaders...
1. you should have read the entire thread.
2. I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Your response is an overreaction. I am also going to say, as I have already done, no one should be forced to move up a class. However, the option to do so should be there. The choice should solely be on the schools AD and HC. They know what they have waiting in the wings.
Before worrying about a team moving up etc. Why don't they just make a mandatory off season weight program and start there.
Lets give "Highshcool Kids" the tools and road-map to be successful instead of trying to lower the bar to appease the everyone get a trophy set.
We forget that this isnt a pay-per view event. There are going to be mismatches.
Perhaps a team like Mexico who went from class 4 and dropped to class 3 would have a better chance if everyone who has been successful was moved up ?
Looks like there may be a new addition to class 2 if they keep dropping classes. Woof.
Lets give "Highshcool Kids" the tools and road-map to be successful instead of trying to lower the bar to appease the everyone get a trophy set.
We forget that this isnt a pay-per view event. There are going to be mismatches.
Perhaps a team like Mexico who went from class 4 and dropped to class 3 would have a better chance if everyone who has been successful was moved up ?
Looks like there may be a new addition to class 2 if they keep dropping classes. Woof.
I hate to bring the word "soccer" into this, but the way European soccer is organized with respect to moving up and down between competition levels is interesting. I'm not saying to do it for Missouri HS football, but it's out there for civil debate.
So what's your point other than taking a shot a Mexico? What happened to Mexico is district play, they did to themselves. Perhaps if the kids where not look past everyone but Blair Oats, they would have took care of business.
They only reason they even dropped classes was because of the new multiplier for private schools.
Moving a team, if that is their choice, is not lower the bar. Only people with a losers mentality think that way. Honestly if I am a head coach of a team that has been as dominating as Lamar or Webb City. I would want to "raise the bar" for kids in my program. Challenge them to not settle and continue to strive for more.
You do realize that both teams continue to try to schedule teams that challenge them, don't you?? I hardly call that a loser's mentality.
I get it, if you want to improve, compete against higher competition. There are other issues in play with your "move up" option. 2 year scheduling commitments would be one of those issues that AD's have to consider. I assume you would expect teams who move up to also schedule higher class opponents. Wait,, we already play Class 3 and Class 4 teams.. On top of that, we had 2 openings this year and next year, sent the request out to Missouri and Kansas and got 0 replys, except Valle. Now, it's not so easy to just plug a team into an open slot, so you have to consider the fact that some teams just couldn't juggle their schedules to accommodate us. So, now how to you propose teams fill their schedules? But, the "losers mentality" comment can be said for those whining about teams moving up so they don't have to compete against them. You contradict yourself. I would challenge THOSE teams to not settle and to strive for more. You mention Webb City. Ask Carthage and CJ if those wins meant a bit more, this year. Did you hear them whining about moving Webb up?
Vashon tried in basketball years ago to move up and was denied as well.
However you look at it, hats off to Lamar on doing what they do each year! Eventually the run will be done, but enjoy it while it lasts guys.
Man, reading comprehension on this board sucks. You guys are making way to big of a deal of this. If staying in your class is that big of deal to you where you will attack others, then that's on you. Like I have said multiple times now, it should be on the AD and HC of the school. They know what they have. Moving up doesn't lower the bar and is the lamest excuse I have heard. "We don't want to move up because it will water it down for everyone else" is pathetic. I personally want to achieve the highest level I possibly can and screw what everyone else thinks. Mshsaa should allow teams to advance as many classes as they want.
I totally agree, but somewhere along the lines was the remark that schools should HAVE to move up if they win the title in their class so it is making more of a level playing field! I HATE that. Look what it does to the NFL. Dynasties are a thing of the past. If you lose bad one season in the NFL, you are rewarded with an easier schedule. HOGWASH.
Not sure where you currently coach, but if you want to challenge yourself, there are schools in every classification that will not compete, no matter what. I encourage you to take one. I'd hate for you and your players to be bored from all the winning.
Oh, aren't you a big tough guy. I would love to do that. However, nobody typically jumps to a head coaching job at the high school level without working up to it.
Depends on who you know on a school board and promise to make their kid the starting QB... They will hire you in a heart beat. a BOOM you are the head coach! Several openings already
My suggestion...get in contact with someone AT MSHSAA instead of pissing and moaning on Mosports where nothing you say is going to affect change.
Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.
Oh so I am the one pissing and moaning. I am debating a point with people of a different view. Is that not what boards like this is for? Don't like my opinion? Then move on.
Who's opinion do you think you're going to change? By all means, keep pissing into the wind and being unnecessarily agressive toward anyone who disagrees or questions you, let me know how it works out for you.
This has turned into an absolute waste of a good thread.
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