BIG 8

[bullitpdq68]

Monett is not leaving the Big 8.

Before 2007 I would have said the same thing about cAssville replacing Aurora and Mt Vernon as being our biggest rivals, that it would never ever happen. To this day many people in Monett are shocked about that and still bitter that we did not keep Aurora and Mt Vernon on the schedule yearly, so a lot of old traditions were thrown out the window before, whose to say it cannot happen again.

 

[sw5890]

You forgot West Plains might be leaving. and who is to say the newly formed Conference includes Rolla?

Agreed but best case scenario is more trips to Springfield and it only gets worse from there.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Agreed but best case scenario is more trips to Springfield and it only gets worse from there.

unfortunately growing communities' and schools have to pay a price for that growth, if the surrounding communities are not growing equally. And that comes by way of finding other schools with similar size and strength.

 

[hsfootballdude]

Does anybody else find it funny that these are the same COC small schools that cried about getting beat down by Bolivar year over year and begged to be let into the big 8. And now they are fleeing the Big 8. They even said they would not join if we allowed Bolivar in...They want to find a conference that they can be the bully in and win and not get better.

There is the Big 8 spin, that arrogance could have something to do with what is going on. (and this coming from a guy that loves Big 8 football) But everything I have heard points to travel. From what I remember it was Reeds Spring that won the last two football championships in the COC small. I do know that it was the dealing with Bolivar that they all wanted to get away from, not the "beat downs" you refer to. I am still waiting to hear our resident Reeds Spring guy's take on this but, so far, he has been silent.

 

[AC100]

Agreed but best case scenario is more trips to Springfield and it only gets worse from there.

In all sports except maybe football the larger Jasper County schools will still play each other in every sport. It will just be non conference. Trips to Springfield are unavoidable but hopefully no further.

 

[bullitpdq68]

There is the Big 8 spin, that arrogance could have something to do with what is going on. (and this coming from a guy that loves Big 8 football) But everything I have heard points to travel. From what I remember it was Reeds Spring that won the last two football championships in the COC small. I do know that it was the dealing with Bolivar that they all wanted to get away from, not the "beat downs" you refer to. I am still waiting to hear our resident Reeds Spring guy's take on this but, so far, he has been silent.

That is why I like to stir the pot to see what comes to the top!
So yeah the things you say is why I am shocked about Reeds and well even Log Rog Marshfield wanting to leave. I just don't see them joining or creating a conference that would have any less travel than what is currently in the big 8? Plus in one sport or another those three fit nicely into the conference.

His silence on the matter pretty much says he knows its true because he has been on the board and looked at this topic and has chosen to stay away from it.

 

[tigershs]

OC Large (4)
Kickapoo
Nixa
Ozark
Joplin

OC Metro (5)
Parkview
Hillcrest
Glendale
Willard
Republic

OC East (5)
Lebanon
Camdenton
Waynesville
Marshfield
Rolla

OC West (5)
Carthage
Webb City
Neosho
Carl Junction
Bolivar

Table Rock Conf. (4)
Log Rog
Branson
Reeds Spring
West Plains

Big 8 (9)
Lamar
Seneca
Mt Vernon
Aurora
Monett
Cassville
East Newton
Nevada
Mc Donald Co


Play everyone in your division Plus X amount of crossover games.
Big 8 just plays everyone in their conf.

 

[65TPT]

OC Large (4)
Kickapoo
Nixa
Ozark
Joplin

OC Metro (5)
Parkview
Hillcrest
Glendale
Willard
Republic

OC East (5)
Lebanon
Camdenton
Waynesville
Marshfield
Rolla

OC West (5)
Carthage
Webb City
Neosho
Carl Junction
Bolivar

Table Rock Conf. (4)
Log Rog
Branson
Reeds Spring
West Plains

Big 8 (9)
Lamar
Seneca
Mt Vernon
Aurora
Monett
Cassville
East Newton
Nevada
Mc Donald Co


Play everyone in your division Plus X amount of crossover games.
Big 8 just plays everyone in their conf.

If the COC and Ozark were to merge, would that be an opportunity for Camdenton to join the CMAC? Travel would be a little less other than Lebanon and Waynesville. I know they are big rivals with Lebanon so not sure they would want to split that, but I feel they are more of a fit in the CMAC. And I would imagine Smith Cotton would want to get out as soon as possible.

 

[Craig Hull]

Disclaimer: My personal opinion is if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, but since conference realignment always seems to be one of many dead horses to continue a slow methodical demise on this message board, might as well see if plausible scenario exists to address it trying to quantify everything from enrollment, geography, travel distance and MSHSAA classification. Unfortunately, football seems to be the point of emphasis when other sports logistics need to be taken into consideration. Numbers used are from the MSHSAA website.

Wish I could go back about 20 years ago on Mosports.com when conference alignment was a point of discussion then and I recall posting a Southwest Missouri Super Conference with three divisions of six or seven schools. If I recall correctly, took the Big 8, five teams in the Southwest, plus Joplin and I wish I could remember the other four or five schools I added to the mix and had three tiers – and upper, middle and lower – based on enrollment.

Same principle applies to this concept. Take the COC and Big 8, merge them and divide into three tiers of eight. The concept actually is rather simple when merging those two leagues into one super conference of three divisions. In fact, it creates some interesting talking points such as eight team divisions, seven conference games allowing for two non-conference matchups or cross division matchups. It would also allow for movement up or down a division should enrollment trends change. Please double check the numbers for mistakes, I’ll correct it if one is discovered.

Current

COC

1, Joplin 1664

2, Nixa 1478

3, Ozark 1369

4, Carthage 1232

5, Neosho 1157

6, Republic 1148

7, Willard 1061

8, Branson 1050

9, Webb City 1011

10, Carl Junction 735

Big 8

1, McDonald County 818

2, Marshfield 680

3, Nevada 587

4, Monett 569

5, Logan-Rogersville 547

6, Cassville 478

7, Reeds Spring 436

8, Aurora 424

9, Seneca 373

10, East Newton 349

11, Mount Vernon 348

12, Hollister 337

13, Lamar 294

14, Catholic 290

Ozark Conference

1, Kickapoo 1507

2, Waynesville 1319

3, Lebanon 1136

4, Glendale 1098

5, Central 1075

6, Rolla 1035

7, Parkview 1026

8, Camdenton 975

9, West Plains 866

10, Hillcrest 837

11, Bolivar 615



SWMO Super Conference Upper (High to low enrollment differential is 614)

1, Joplin. 2, Nixa. 3, Ozark. 4, Carthage. 5, Neosho. 6, Republic. 7, Willard, 8, Branson.

SWMO Super Conference Middle (High to low enrollment differential is 533)

1, Webb City. 2, Carl Junction. 3, McDonald County. 4, Marshfield 5, Nevada. 6, Monett. 7, Logan-Rogersville. 8, Cassville.

SWMO Super Conference Lower (High to low enrollment differential is 146)

1, Reeds Spring 2, Aurora. 3, Seneca. 4, East Newton. 5, Mount Vernon. 6, Hollister. 7, Lamar. 8, Catholic.



If you add the Ozark Conference into this hypothetical super conference it gets really convoluted. Here’s what five divisions of the seven teams would look like:

SWMO Super Conference Tier I (High to low enrollment differential is 507)

1, Joplin. 2, Kickapoo. 3, Nixa. 4, Ozark. 5, Waynesville. 6, Carthage. 7, Neosho.

SWMO Super Conference Tier II (High to low enrollment differential is 113)

1, Republic. 2, Lebanon. 3, Glendale. 4, Central. 5, Willard. 6, Branson. 7, Rolla.

SWMO Super Conference Tier III (High to low enrollment differential is 291)

1, Parkview. 2, Webb City. 3, Camdenton. 4, West Plains. 5, Hillcrest. 6, McDonald County. 7, Carl Junction.

SWMO Super Conference Tier IV (High to low enrollment differential is 244)

1, Marshfield. 2, Bolivar. 3, Nevada. 4, Monett. 5, Logan-Rogersville. 6, Cassville. 7, Reeds Spring.

SWMO Super Conference Tier V (High to low enrollment differential is 134)

1, Aurora. 2, Seneca. 3, East Newton. 4, Mount Vernon. 5, Hollister. 6, Lamar. 7, Catholic.

 

[J. Kane]

Someone please make the West plains McDonald County match up happen!

 

[squeal_like_a_pig]

Travel and schools growing is probably the biggest concern in all of this.

 

[AC100]

A league for football based on enrollment and a league based on geography for everything else is the answer.

 

[bullitpdq68]

A league for football based on enrollment and a league based on geography for everything else is the answer.

Yes but you still have that JV team make a long haul on a monday nights. Maybe JV and freshmen find more local games?

 

[AC100]

Yes but you still have that JV team make a long haul on a monday nights. Maybe JV and freshmen find more local games?

I have no issue with that. I would also think all junior high sports would be in the local league

 

[AC100]

However even if you kept the JV and freshman with the varsity football league it is only a few trips a year. Basketball may have to travel multiple times in 1 week.

 

[COCfan1212]

Creating the league that you want for football should be a schools priority. There are more than enough non-conference games in other sports that allow you to fill out a schedule with other opponents. In baseball for example you can have 36 games, with only 9 of those being conference games under a 10 team league schedule. You could play in the worst baseball conference in the state but still come out with a darn tough schedule if you are able to fill it out the rest with competitive games against good competition.

Football for the most part doesnt allow for that, which is why I can see a school like Branson for example getting frustrated. They have great facilities, a great strength and conditioning program, and would probably be seeing more success if they were able to "play down" somewhat or even schedule some non-con type games. Getting 4-5 wins a season is a lot different than getting 1-2. Going against COC schools every Friday is not an easy thing to do, and success in this league is a fragile thing. It's tough to maintain a program.

I understand that travel is a concern given the cost of fuel and driver shortages, so that has to play into it somewhat as well.

 

[Mitsurugi san]

Does anybody else find it funny that these are the same COC small schools that cried about getting beat down by Bolivar year over year and begged to be let into the big 8. And now they are fleeing the Big 8. They even said they would not join if we allowed Bolivar in...They want to find a conference that they can be the bully in and win and not get better.

Actually I did notice that and I also found it quite funny! 🤣

 

[AC100]

Creating the league that you want for football should be a schools priority. There are more than enough non-conference games in other sports that allow you to fill out a schedule with other opponents. In baseball for example you can have 36 games, with only 9 of those being conference games under a 10 team league schedule. You could play in the worst baseball conference in the state but still come out with a darn tough schedule if you are able to fill it out the rest with competitive games against good competition.

Football for the most part doesnt allow for that, which is why I can see a school like Branson for example getting frustrated. They have great facilities, a great strength and conditioning program, and would probably be seeing more success if they were able to "play down" somewhat or even schedule some non-con type games. Getting 4-5 wins a season is a lot different than getting 1-2. Going against COC schools every Friday is not an easy thing to do, and success in this league is a fragile thing. It's tough to maintain a program.

I understand that travel is a concern given the cost of fuel and driver shortages, so that has to play into it somewhat as well.

In the Joplin area there is a junior high volleyball and basketball tournament every year for just Joplin area teams. Schools from the size of Lamar to Joplin participate. It is a great tournament.

 

[Baldguy]

It does almost seem the need for a separate football affiliation vs other sports is all across the board, from small school Missouri to the NCAA D1. Looking at Jasper and LIberal in the WEMO and 3.70 gas, it seems silly for Midway to Jasper trips for conference Jr. High basketball, yet the WEMO football setup is a necessity. The same with Big 10 in college; it seems silly for California and Rutgers to travel for conference tennis. As for our high school football affiliations, MSHSAA sure proved they can't be depended on to do it correctly either as they think Hayti and Pierce City would make great "district" opponents. Be interesting to see what transpires.

 

[sw5890]

A league for football based on enrollment and a league based on geography for everything else is the answer.

I don't know that is HAS to be based strictly on enrollment... but create an affiliation for HS FB based on your competition and enrollment, whatever seems to be a fit. Then everything else goes into a more local league. If a school wants to schedule more distant noncon opponents they are free to do that if it suits their program and their families.

I know Ozark, Nixa and some of them schedule some pretty distant VB games in KC, ST Louis, Columbia, Arkansas. Ozark played a tourney in Illinois. Not every school even in the COC takes volleyball serious enough to have an interest in that kind of a travel.

 

[AC100]

Heck

I don't know that is HAS to be based strictly on enrollment... but create an affiliation for HS FB based on your competition and enrollment, whatever seems to be a fit. Then everything else goes into a more local league. If a school wants to schedule more distant noncon opponents they are free to do that if it suits their program and their families.

I know Ozark, Nixa and some of them schedule some pretty distant VB games in KC, ST Louis, Columbia, Arkansas. Ozark played a tourney in Illinois. Not every school even in the COC takes volleyball serious enough to have an interest in that kind of a travel.

The CJ girls basketball spent 2 nights in Fort Smith last season to play in a tournament but most sports wouldn't do that.

 

[BearsCountry]

First domino is offical after board approval

Hollister, Reeds Spring & Springfield Catholic to join Mid-Lakes Conference

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter RELEASE – During a special session Mid-Lakes Conference Meeting on Friday, September 22, 2023, the Mid-Lakes Conference voted in favor or adding Hollister, Springfield Catholic, and Reeds Spring to the Mid-Lakes

www.ozarkssportszone.com

 

[bullitpdq68]

Still don't under stand why Reeds wants out? Here is the miles they will travel for conference games. So does that really look like travel is the real reason? Sure they have to play cross over games but how far will they have to travel now for non conference games and who will they play?


staying the same
Hollister 30
Catholic 34

Mid lakes travel
51 Fair Grove
47 Strafford
37 Clever
26 Forsyth
89 Skyline


Big 8 travel conference East
32 Aurora
44 Mt Vernon
41 Logan Rogersville
66 Marshfield

 

[Arcola]

Big 8s response to the news.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Big 8s response to the news.

exactly.

 

[AC100]

If SPS allowed Springfield to split their schools:

Branson
Willard
Rogersville
Marshfield
CJ
Neosho
Parkview
Hillcrest


Nixa
Ozark
Republic
Kickapoo
Glendale
Webb City
Joplin
Carthage

Each team needs 2 non conference games. Those games are chosen from their media market. I would add Pittsburg into the Joplin market for games.

Joplin area

Joplin
Pittsburg
CJ
Carthage
Neosho
Webb City

2 games a year between these schools.


Same with the Springfield schools.

 

[bigcats05]

Will be interested to see if Marshfield and Rogersville make any new conference announcements soon as well, or if they come back hat in hand to the big 8 asking to stay in as teams 10 and 11.....

And if that does happen what would the Big 8 do??
Let them back in and have a rotational schedule where you play 9 of the other 10 each year and the team you don't play changes every year?
Or... Would East Newton want to be independent in football and let the other 10 schools play a 9 game football schedule?

All fun stuff to ponder on.

 

[Arcola]

Does the Big 8 ask Stockton to join?

 

[AC100]

Will be interested to see if Marshfield and Rogersville make any new conference announcements soon as well, or if they come back hat in hand to the big 8 asking to stay in as teams 10 and 11.....

And if that does happen what would the Big 8 do??
Let them back in and have a rotational schedule where you play 9 of the other 10 each year and the team you don't play changes every year?
Or... Would East Newton want to be independent in football and let the other 10 schools play a 9 game football schedule?

All fun stuff to ponder on.

Are they already out?

 

[Ftballfan16]

Does the Big 8 ask Stockton to join?

Why would they do that? Stockton could not compete in the Mid Lakes and have been average in the SWC. They would get destroyed in the Big 8. I don't think they have won a conference title in anything in the small school SWC.

 

[Arcola]

Why would they do that? Stockton could not compete in the Mid Lakes and have been average in the SWC. They would get destroyed in the Big 8.

No worse than East Newton. Plus they would compete well in the other sports besides football.

 

[Baldguy]

Does the Big 8 ask Stockton to join?

Is Stockton already looking beyond the SWC? Just curious. The better next step for them would probably be the Ozark Highlands Conference. The Highlands may want to invite both Stockton and Skyline. This would give Eldo and Buffalo both a neighborhood opponent. Of course, Skyline might be a better SWC opponent enrollment-wise but it would be a good drive between them and a chunk of the rest of that league.

 

[Arcola]

No worse than East Newton. Plus they would compete well in the other sports besides football.

Is Stockton already looking beyond the SWC? Just curious. The better next step for them would probably be the Ozark Highlands Conference. The Highlands may want to invite both Stockton and Skyline. This would give Eldo and Buffalo both a neighborhood opponent. Of course, Skyline might be a better SWC opponent enrollment-wise but it would be a good drive between them and a chunk of the rest of that league.

Honestly I don’t know. I was just thinking about how them and Bolivar are always in the mix when conference realignment happens.

 

[bigcats05]

Are they already out?

Well the “east” is no more.
And when the big 8 admin met earlier in the week, Mt vernon and Aurora were the only east side schools in attendance..
I’d say the member schools will take a vote at some point as to how they will proceed not that 3 members have officially withdrawn, I guess technically marshfield and Rogersville would still have a vote since they haven’t officially left…

 

[bigcats05]

Honestly I don’t know. I was just thinking about how them and Bolivar are always in the mix when conference realignment happens.

Stockton wants no part of the big 8 😂
And I’d say the big 8 doesn’t want to get smaller either.
They are all class 3 and 4’s with Lamar being the only class 2 (and they are a big time exception)

 

[AC100]

Well the “east” is no more.
And when the big 8 admin met earlier in the week, Mt vernon and Aurora were the only east side schools in attendance..
I’d say the member schools will take a vote at some point as to how they will proceed not that 3 members have officially withdrawn, I guess technically marshfield and Rogersville would still have a vote since they haven’t officially left…

In order for Rogersville and Marshfield to skip out on Big 8 meetings, they would have to think:

1..they have enough schools interested in joining them in a new league. Would need to be at least 8 right?

2. The new league has a good chance of happening.

 

[LawCoMo]

Still don't under stand why Reeds wants out? Here is the miles they will travel for conference games. So does that really look like travel is the real reason? Sure they have to play cross over games but how far will they have to travel now for non conference games and who will they play?


staying the same
Hollister 30
Catholic 34

Mid lakes travel
51 Fair Grove
47 Strafford
37 Clever
26 Forsyth
89 Skyline


Big 8 travel conference East
32 Aurora
44 Mt Vernon
41 Logan Rogersville
66 Marshfield

In order for Rogersville and Marshfield to skip out on Big 8 meetings, they would have to think:

1..they have enough schools interested in joining them in a new league. Would need to be at least 8 right?

2. The new league has a good chance of happening.

The thing to consider is if RS knew that LR, Marshfield, Hollister and Catholic were already gone, that east travel all of a sudden turns into traveling west 7 times a year. That’s a killer for Mon/Tues/Thurs games of other sports. Eventually schools have to make a decision when an offer is made.

 

[LawCoMo]

The thing to consider is if RS knew that LR, Marshfield, Hollister and Catholic were already gone, that east travel all of a sudden turns into traveling west 7 times a year. That’s a killer for Mon/Tues/Thurs games of other sports. Eventually schools have to make a decision when an offer is made.

PS- not sure if you have traveled to RS very often but there is NO good way to travel to any direction to the west.

 

[bigcats05]

The thing to consider is if RS knew that LR, Marshfield, Hollister and Catholic were already gone, that east travel all of a sudden turns into traveling west 7 times a year. That’s a killer for Mon/Tues/Thurs games of other sports. Eventually schools have to make a decision when an offer is made.

I’m still trying to figure out who was the chicken and who was the egg?
Did marshfield and Rogersville start all this with their talks of a new conference with Branson etc…
Or did Hollister/Catholic start it with their talks with the mid lakes?
If anyone knows or has insight please let us know!

Whoever started it, I agree with your point that the others didn’t want to be left out.

As it stands now, Marsh and Rog have to hoping they don’t get left out in the cold. They need to new conference to happen, or they need the big 8 to keep them.

 

[BearsCountry]

Honestly the whole Big 8 expansion with they took on the COC Small Division never felt right. I think it was a rushed move. Personally the Big 8 going back to its natural look is a good thing. At the same time one of the moves being discussed was basically what Mid-Lakes is now sans Buffalo in place of Skyline. Which they got right now.

A super Ozark Conference based on enrollment sizes has been discussed since the 90s. Edsel Matthews and Bob Shore were big on trying to get it created then. COC schools at the time kind of squashed it as they were just in the early stages of their growth. But those talks was how the OC got Camdenton & Lebanon then Rolla, West Plains and Waynesville.