Beginning with the 2018-2019 high school football season.........
- Thread starter gianthook
- Start date
I've also heard they will be basing state funding off reported enrollment for athletics.
That way teams like Webb (cough, cough)... Sorry, I meant to say Webb City can actually move up and play with the big boys.
They're also throwing around a success multiplier idea as well. So that way Webb really has no excuse but to move up.
Let the webbies rain that hate down on me!!
That way teams like Webb (cough, cough)... Sorry, I meant to say Webb City can actually move up and play with the big boys.
They're also throwing around a success multiplier idea as well. So that way Webb really has no excuse but to move up.
Let the webbies rain that hate down on me!!
I like the idea of reclassification every year. I hope the couple that with changing the "catch all" class as well. This would make it very interesting and teams that are consistently at the bottom of their class may get a break and be at the top of the class and vice versa. What it does is equal out the quality of certain jobs that are always at the top of their class.
SOOOOOOOOOO.... Again, everyone gets a ribbon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yayyyyyyyyyyy.... NOT!
IMO this is not a soccer with out a goalie, basketball with no score, everyone gets a trophy, etc...
Are you saying Webb doesn't play with the big boys ?I've also heard they will be basing state funding off reported enrollment for athletics.
That way teams like Webb (cough, cough)... Sorry, I meant to say Webb City can actually move up and play with the big boys.
They're also throwing around a success multiplier idea as well. So that way Webb really has no excuse but to move up.
Let the webbies rain that hate down on me!!
I'd like to see them actually play somebody, besides Kearney, that's up to their level through the playoffs. Class 5 and 6 is brutal in the KC area.
Life is good when you're one of the biggest schools in your classification for the last 30 years. Still trying to figure that one out.
No argument that the KC area has some seriously good football. As to the classification, I can tell you that I just went to Webb's graduation ceremony this past Friday where they graduated 295 students. I think that is line with their total enrollment of about 1180. The COC large is a pretty good conference with some pretty good football. Like most high schools, we play the teams in our conference and we try to schedule a quality opponent if we can.
In most years, Webb playing in class 5 wouldn't change much. They would still be an elite class 5 program, but during some of the "down" years, they would probably get beat in the quarters. I don't think there is any argument that Webb playing weak competition, because they don't, but playing 6 class 5 playoff games in a row would be more challenging than class 4 obviously.
YA! Its all about Kearney now!....or AMPIPE!!!
The success multiplier idea is about as close as they can get to it, without actually doing it. So dumb.
A success multiplier is beyond stupid....how will they judge it? It becomes F!@# Figure skating with judges deciding to much.
Don't mind the yearly classification but any of the rest is just moronic!
They'll probably do it like Illinois does, which has no judging at all. It's pretty cut and dry....
The new Success Advancement step will move schools up a classification if they achieve the following:
In football over four years:
1. Participated in two state championship games.
2. Starting with the 2015 season, schools would be moved up two classes from their enrollment classification if, over a four year period, the school participated in three championship games.
3. Starting with the 2016 season, schools would be moved up three classes from their enrollment classification if, over a four year period, the school participated in four championship games.
4. Schools that move up more than one class due to the implementation of the above criteria will move down one class per year until they reach their appropriate classification for their enrollment should they stop meeting the advancement criteria outlined above.
I give the success multiplier about .009% of passing.
In other words, I would be shocked if it ever garners enough support from AD's to pass.
The US Olympic Fastpitch Team won seven straight World Championships, three straight Gold Medals, 185 straight games.
Their reward ?
Fastpitch taken out of the Olympic Games because no one could "beat" them.
Everyone gets to win policies are for losers...
Their reward ?
Fastpitch taken out of the Olympic Games because no one could "beat" them.
Everyone gets to win policies are for losers...
Note that the success penalty is if you participate in the championship, not if you win a championship. Realistically this would only affect a handful of football teams in the state. It's not surprising that Illinois would be the state in the region trying to level the playing field against teams that are good.
As a general rule I don't care for the concept but there are a few different ways to look at it:
1-Penalty to a program for doing well.
2-Penalty to current students based on the performance of students who came before them and who they may not compare to. (This is the biggest negative to me.)
3-Recognizes and accounts for the fact that school enrollment is not the sole factor for program potential - I see this posted a lot on this board so I would think at least many people would agree with this point.
4-It forces greater competition for teams who are dominating in their assigned classification.
The problem is that it's not like a team wins in class 2 and then continues to try their hand at class 3. It's the same school but not the same team. IF such a thing were implemented it would need to be limited to teams that have indeed built a brand that may attract and build perpetual talent and interest, not those who just happened to have an exceptional class of athletes every 15 years. But overall I'm not really in favor of the concept.
I am however in favor of higher multipliers or a separate division for private schools. Adding .30 isn't really enough to account for what I believe are inherent advantages with recruiting and unlimited geography. And I think their disproportionate representation at championship games is evidence of that.
As a general rule I don't care for the concept but there are a few different ways to look at it:
1-Penalty to a program for doing well.
2-Penalty to current students based on the performance of students who came before them and who they may not compare to. (This is the biggest negative to me.)
3-Recognizes and accounts for the fact that school enrollment is not the sole factor for program potential - I see this posted a lot on this board so I would think at least many people would agree with this point.
4-It forces greater competition for teams who are dominating in their assigned classification.
The problem is that it's not like a team wins in class 2 and then continues to try their hand at class 3. It's the same school but not the same team. IF such a thing were implemented it would need to be limited to teams that have indeed built a brand that may attract and build perpetual talent and interest, not those who just happened to have an exceptional class of athletes every 15 years. But overall I'm not really in favor of the concept.
I am however in favor of higher multipliers or a separate division for private schools. Adding .30 isn't really enough to account for what I believe are inherent advantages with recruiting and unlimited geography. And I think their disproportionate representation at championship games is evidence of that.
All great points, can not argue that many of them might be beneficial to "some" programs.
My main concern however is the safety of the players when a "much" larger school plays a smaller school on a "consistent" basis.
Kearney C4 for example played C5 Staley for years. The record showed that higher competition was not an issue, Kearney winning the majority of those games.
The after effect however was a pretty beat up team that struggled to get injury free the remainder of the season.
I just question the idea of placing smaller schools that do not have elite athletes every year on their teams with "much larger" schools that do.
The "key word" is..regular basis.
Just for the record, C6 LSW has never beaten C4 Webb or neither has C6 Rockhurst....
What do I know??? : /
If the success multiplier is applied does it mean that the alums responsible for the success are allowed to come back and play the next year. So the 1993 Webb City, 2003 Kearney team or 2011 Logan Rogersville teams all would have been bumped up. That would have worked so well since you know how dominant that 94 WC, 04 Kearney and 12 LR teams were.
Serious question. Is Webb's enrollment actually shrinking? Generally the graduates are the smallest of the entire school because of dropouts, not everyone qualifying for graduation, etc. and that most enrollments are growing so that the younger classes, particularly Fr & So are usually larger than the senior class. If they graduated 295, that x 4 = 1,180. Their reported enrollment was 1,177. Or was that senior class just a particularly large class as happens sometimes?
How do you penalize class6 schools that dominate
Maybe if you play in two title games in a row you have to spot every opponent the next year 14 points?
If people are stupid enough to pass something like this might as well put the pads on homecoming bonfire and burn em.
who actually brought this up for discussion?
Not sure but makes for fun discussion.
Would like to think that these past 25 years of watching "quality" HSF was not a total waste of time.
If it is not broke, then don't fix it.
I don't know that it is necessarily shrinking but I think the senior class this year might have been the largest ever at WC and I don't believe the numbers are as high in the next 3 classes.
That is another good point. Webb City for example has competed well against some much larger schools in recent years but I heard a lot of concerns about the injuries that resulted from those games. Those victories sometimes came with a price tag. Doing that week after week could be damaging, even to a solid program like what they've got. They may be a more disciplined and capable team but that doesn't mean getting hit by larger faster players won't hurt as much.
Butt hurt Webbies, butt hurt Webbies everywhere!!
Seriously, if you believe Webb truly is a class 4 after that tornado hit Joplin and all those families moved to Webb, Carl Junction, and Carthage you're dumber than you sound on this board. You don't stay one of the biggest class 4's in the state of Missouri for 30 years. Especially after a neighboring town is decimated from a natural disaster.
Once DESE and MSHSAA get together and base school funding off reported school enrollment for athletics, Webb WILL BE class 5... and that is coming sooner than people think.
Thank God that Roderique and Smith are great guys. All the town drunks that regularly post on this board make it hard to cheer for, and support Webb.
Bring on the hate!
Seriously, if you believe Webb truly is a class 4 after that tornado hit Joplin and all those families moved to Webb, Carl Junction, and Carthage you're dumber than you sound on this board. You don't stay one of the biggest class 4's in the state of Missouri for 30 years. Especially after a neighboring town is decimated from a natural disaster.
Once DESE and MSHSAA get together and base school funding off reported school enrollment for athletics, Webb WILL BE class 5... and that is coming sooner than people think.
Thank God that Roderique and Smith are great guys. All the town drunks that regularly post on this board make it hard to cheer for, and support Webb.
Bring on the hate!
So under this.. Lamar would be Class 5? Whether its Webb, Lamar, Valle, or whoever... not sure a school should be penalized for success... What about a little class one school that happens to have a great athletic class come through once in a decade and happens to make two championship games?... They would have to play Class 3 perhaps after the great class was gone and they are back down to an "average" class 1 school talentwise..
Butt hurt Webbies, butt hurt Webbies everywhere!!
Seriously, if you believe Webb truly is a class 4 after that tornado hit Joplin and all those families moved to Webb, Carl Junction, and Carthage you're dumber than you sound on this board. You don't stay one of the biggest class 4's in the state of Missouri for 30 years. Especially after a neighboring town is decimated from a natural disaster.
Once DESE and MSHSAA get together and base school funding off reported school enrollment for athletics, Webb WILL BE class 5... and that is coming sooner than people think.
Thank God that Roderique and Smith are great guys. All the town drunks that regularly post on this board make it hard to cheer for, and support Webb.
Bring on the hate!
I'm not sure what Joplin families you are talking about that moved to WC. I just had one graduate and another in high school, a family member teaching in Joplin and don't know of any of these new Joplin students that you refer of. Why? Because there was no mass exodus of Joplin students. I thought there would be like a lot of people did but their enrollment now is higher than ever. Over a 100 more than last cycle.
As far as WC being class 5, at the rate some schools are dropping football we might be back to 5 classes in a few years anyway. Had a number of schools not dropped football WC would already have been in Class 5 for the last cycle or two. I've long assumed that eventually WC will be a smaller Class 5 school.
Whether WC is Class 4 or Class 5 is not going to make that much difference though. WC is going to play the same 9 games in the regular season against the same teams they would play up until the semifinals of a Class 5 playoff and playing Kearney is as tough as playing any of the potential C5 semifinal opponents.
Butt hurt Webbies, butt hurt Webbies everywhere!!
Seriously, if you believe Webb truly is a class 4 after that tornado hit Joplin and all those families moved to Webb, Carl Junction, and Carthage you're dumber than you sound on this board. You don't stay one of the biggest class 4's in the state of Missouri for 30 years. Especially after a neighboring town is decimated from a natural disaster.
Once DESE and MSHSAA get together and base school funding off reported school enrollment for athletics, Webb WILL BE class 5... and that is coming sooner than people think.
Thank God that Roderique and Smith are great guys. All the town drunks that regularly post on this board make it hard to cheer for, and support Webb.
Bring on the hate!
I also hear that JFK was actually assassinated by actual pigs from the Bay of Pigs invasion. Great theory.
Webb dominated Nixa and Carthage the last 2 years, both of whom advanced well into the Class 5 playoffs. They may not win multiple championships in a row like in Class 4, but they would still be a contender for state championships almost every year.
If this is true, It sure would be nice to be the team to knock them off
Valle Catholic High School holds the record for the most Missouri State Championships in football with 14. In 2013, their football team went 15-0 for the first time in school history, and also claimed their 12th State Championship. In 2014, Valle went on to extend their win streak to 30-0 with another perfect 15-0 season. They won the Missouri Class 1 State Championship over Westran for their 13th State Championship. Valle won their 14th State Championship in 2015, their third straight championship, by defeating rival Penney, also increasing the school record win streak to 45-0 with another perfect 15-0 season.
Valle Catholic High School holds the record for the most Missouri State Championships in football with 14. In 2013, their football team went 15-0 for the first time in school history, and also claimed their 12th State Championship. In 2014, Valle went on to extend their win streak to 30-0 with another perfect 15-0 season. They won the Missouri Class 1 State Championship over Westran for their 13th State Championship. Valle won their 14th State Championship in 2015, their third straight championship, by defeating rival Penney, also increasing the school record win streak to 45-0 with another perfect 15-0 season.
That sounds beyond stupid......so the whole purpose of the system is to punish a successful program and make them compete outside their classification. That's the reward for success....no wonder Illinois is screwed up
Think Orrick. They dominated a couple years........would have been penalized........but couldn't even be competitive in class 1 after that group graduated. That penalty would have been so devastating to the kids that came after that group. It's easy to say Valle needs to play up but the rule just doesn't work. If you must implement something like the success multiplier, it needs to have a broader spectrum of success involved than a couple yrs.
