32 smallest teams

[Cards1968]

Board Briefs: Dec. 6, 2022 | IHSAA

Following the IHSAA's latest board meeting, a socioeconomic factor for IHSAA football classifications advances to membership vote.

www.iahsaa.org

Heard anything like this before?

St Louis would FINALLY get that elusive Class 1 championship.

 

[NikeFootball59]

Board Briefs: Dec. 6, 2022 | IHSAA

Following the IHSAA's latest board meeting, a socioeconomic factor for IHSAA football classifications advances to membership vote.

www.iahsaa.org

Heard anything like this before?

I think that's a great move.

A public school like Smithville, Kearney, Blair Oaks, Francis Howell, etc. have benefits that poorer schools of their size don't enjoy. All due respect to those coaches, but they don't have to worry about whether or not kids have been able to eat today or if a kid has to miss practice/weights to work his full-time summer job to provide for his family. From what I've experienced, wealthier communities tend to have a lot more kids used to competing. They can afford to partake in travel baseball, basketball, whatever from the time they're in elementary school. Once again, this is not to discredit coaches or players from affluent schools. They have unique struggles as well.

I've coached at a private school, a public school with 11% free/reduced, and now a very rural, middle class public school and the differences are simply unbelievable.

 

[65TPT]

I think that's a great move.

A public school like Smithville, Kearney, Blair Oaks, Francis Howell, etc. have benefits that poorer schools of their size don't enjoy. All due respect to those coaches, but they don't have to worry about whether or not kids have been able to eat today or if a kid has to miss practice/weights to work his full-time summer job to provide for his family. From what I've experienced, wealthier communities tend to have a lot more kids used to competing. They can afford to partake in travel baseball, basketball, whatever from the time they're in elementary school. Once again, this is not to discredit coaches or players from affluent schools. They have unique struggles as well.

I've coached at a private school, a public school with 11% free/reduced, and now a very rural, middle class public school and the differences are simply unbelievable.

I agree with essentially everything you are saying. They are all true, but I just can't imagine essentially punishing a school because they are more affluent. I know Lamar is the outlier, but what makes them different than other schools with 50% free/reduced? That's always the question I ask. Is it the parents, the kids, administration, coaching? What consistencies do these schools have that maybe other schools don't?
Ft. O is another school that has had a lot of success and they're like 42%. Lafayette County is 41%.

If I had more time, I would take a deep dive into this. But I understand exactly what you're saying, I was at a school with almost 60% free/reduced and we definitely had our battles with what you described. I just don't think this is the fix.

 

[Y-counter]

If MSHSAA would start looking at affluence to classify public schools, you might as well just go ahead and apply the “success” factor we apply to private schools to everyone. That would be as fair as classifying by affluence. End of the day I think the only fair way to classify schools is by population numbers. There are too many other factors that could be considered and you get too far into the weeds (affluence, ethnicity, urban, rural, etc…)

 

[bullitpdq68]

I agree with essentially everything you are saying. They are all true, but I just can't imagine essentially punishing a school because they are more affluent. I know Lamar is the outlier, but what makes them different than other schools with 50% free/reduced? That's always the question I ask. Is it the parents, the kids, administration, coaching? What consistencies do these schools have that maybe other schools don't?
Ft. O is another school that has had a lot of success and they're like 42%. Lafayette County is 41%.

If I had more time, I would take a deep dive into this. But I understand exactly what you're saying, I was at a school with almost 60% free/reduced and we definitely had our battles with what you described. I just don't think this is the fix.

What about rural schools where close to 50% of your students are EL

 

[65TPT]

What about rural schools where close to 50% of your students are EL

Not sure I am aware of the abbreviation you are referring to.

 

[bullitpdq68]

Not sure I am aware of the abbreviation you are referring to.

English Learners

 

[J. Kane]

What about rural schools where close to 50% of your students are EL

 

[65TPT]

English Learners

Not sure where you got your numbers, looking on DESE site only 3 school districts are showing over 50% EL and they are all in the KC area. I'm assuming you are from SWMO because they are the only rural area that had a decent amount of schools over 10%. Carthage, Monett and Mac County were in the 20-30% range and Neosho at 12%. I've never been to these schools, only going off DESE numbers. Most other schools with higher numbers were in the STL area. But again, I don't think a school should be punished because they don't have as many EL students as another. If we are going to get into that, then you're going to open up a never ending rabbit hole to make excuses for school districts. I again ask the question, what makes Lamar, Ft. Osage, Lafayette County different? I haven't been to those schools, but have met Coach Cook and Coach Bailey when he was there, I know they are both tremendous coaches. IMO a lot of times it comes down to the administration. How successful do they want their athletics to be, do they hold kids accountable or are the just trying to graduate them and make their numbers look better? Do they let parents walk all over them because they don't want the conflict?

 

[HHSX2]

Not sure where you got your numbers, looking on DESE site only 3 school districts are showing over 50% EL and they are all in the KC area. I'm assuming you are from SWMO because they are the only rural area that had a decent amount of schools over 10%. Carthage, Monett and Mac County were in the 20-30% range and Neosho at 12%. I've never been to these schools, only going off DESE numbers. Most other schools with higher numbers were in the STL area. But again, I don't think a school should be punished because they don't have as many EL students as another. If we are going to get into that, then you're going to open up a never ending rabbit hole to make excuses for school districts. I again ask the question, what makes Lamar, Ft. Osage, Lafayette County different? I haven't been to those schools, but have met Coach Cook and Coach Bailey when he was there, I know they are both tremendous coaches. IMO a lot of times it comes down to the administration. How successful do they want their athletics to be, do they hold kids accountable or are the just trying to graduate them and make their numbers look better? Do they let parents walk all over them because they don't want the conflict?

Finding the right coach that will or can stay put is a step in the right direction. It can be hard to build that winning culture before admin, parents, or kids want to run them out of town in the first year or two. Once that snowball effect of a winning culture gets rolling everyone buys in without batting an eye. Then the one or two parents who cause a fuss every year because their kid isn't playing usually gets shut down quick if the program is winning. If not you get that echo chamber going and you are looking for another coach. Lastly for smaller schools you just hope the coach doesn't jump to the next big thing.

 

[65TPT]

Finding the right coach that will or can stay put is a step in the right direction. It can be hard to build that winning culture before admin, parents, or kids want to run them out of town in the first year or two. Once that snowball effect of a winning culture gets rolling everyone buys in without batting an eye. Then the one or two parents who cause a fuss every year because their kid isn't playing usually gets shut down quick if the program is winning. If not you get that echo chamber going and you are looking for another coach. Lastly for smaller schools you just hope the coach doesn't jump to the next big thing.

And that's why I always go back to the Admin having a huge effect. Do they have the backbone to stand up to a parent and support the coach, or is it small town politics and they don't want to make anyone mad. I would take a bet that any public school that consistently wins over a long period of time has a good administration in place.

 

[HHSX2]

And that's why I always go back to the Admin having a huge effect. Do they have the backbone to stand up to a parent and support the coach, or is it small town politics and they don't want to make anyone mad. I would take a bet that any public school that consistently wins over a long period of time has a good administration in place.

You are correct. It's a circle. Admin supports the coach. Coach supports the kids. This builds the community support which holds the admin accountable to support the coach.

 

[BearsCountry]

You are correct. It's a circle. Admin supports the coach. Coach supports the kids. This builds the community support which holds the admin accountable to support the coach.

Superintendent is the most important position in a small town. Can make or break a school district and community.

 

[USArmyMike]