What none of us know. Or maybe we do.

[Duck_walk]

We know Brown was wrong to snatch cigars and most definitely wrong to hit a policeman.
I have been reading witness accounts all day and still don't know for sure
if Brown was simply walking back toward Wilson or charging like a pumped up
hulk hogan and running thru bullets which only made him a mad demon.....


What we also don't know is how have black teens been treated by police in Ferguson
over the past 10-25 years. Do they respect black residents? Did Brown and his buddy
have good reason to disrespect the cop or even fear him? What is the relationship
between the police and those they are supposed to serve in that town? I'm not sure
I buy Wilson's story that he politely asked them to get out of the road. Riiiight.

My understanding is that Ferguson raises most of their revenue from
traffic violations and court costs, which has caused a real strain
in relations and trust. Especially with 22% unemployment among blacks
in the town.

Its easy for us white, rural people to say how simple it is
to just follow the law and do exactly what the policeman says
but the relationship in the town where I live doesn't match
the situation in Ferg-town. This isn't an excuse to break the law
so dont be a pr!@&. Just sayin their lives aren't the same as yours.

 

[ag-man]

I can respect that.

 

[Neutron Monster]

There are profound differences in the life experiences I have on a daily basis versus those of a black American who is living in poverty. The biggest challenge we face as a society is helping to improve the experiences of someone who doesn't grow up in a good area with a good family to make them more likely to succeed.

Duck - as a native of North County, Ferguson really isn't really that bad about traffic and tickets. There are places like Charlack and Calverton Park that are 100 times worse. Ferguson is one of the larger, more self-sustaining cities. It doesn't need the revenue as badly as some of the tiny municipalities (there is a heavy negative correlation between size of the city and the absurdity of its police force in North County).

My warning to out of towners driving in North County has long been "if you've never heard of the town, don't even think about speeding."

The sad thing is some of the black-governed munis in North County are some of the worst offenders at bilking their people with traffic fines and fees. Pine Lawn is notably disgusting. Vinita Park is egregious. And so on.

St Louis County would be a better place if all of the PDs in North County for cities of under 10,000 people were eliminated and replaced by the County PD. The county is much more professional. And, in those little cities, the County already handles all major crimes, because the tiny PDs are not large enough to have services like a forensics unit.

This post was edited on 11/25 10:03 PM by Neutron Monster

 

[3Rfan]

If you think a white cop will do you harm why challenge him when he says get out of the street, how ever he says it. Just move to the sidewalk and and go about your business, and stay alive. I would think if you have just stolen something from a local business you wouldn't want to draw attention yourself by walking in the street to start with and you certainly wouldn't want to confront a cop over his demand that you get on the sidewalk.

 

[Buck Commander]

Originally posted by Neutron Monster:
There are profound differences in the life experiences I have on a daily basis versus those of a black American who is living in poverty. The biggest challenge we face as a society is helping to improve the experiences of someone who doesn't grow up in a good area with a good family to make them more likely to succeed.

Duck - as a native of North County, Ferguson really isn't really that bad about traffic and tickets. There are places like Charlack and Calverton Park that are 100 times worse. Ferguson is one of the larger, more self-sustaining cities. It doesn't need the revenue as badly as some of the tiny municipalities (there is a heavy negative correlation between size of the city and the absurdity of its police force in North County).

My warning to out of towners driving in North County has long been "if you've never heard of the town, don't even think about speeding."

The sad thing is some of the black-governed munis in North County are some of the worst offenders at bilking their people with traffic fines and fees. Pine Lawn is notably disgusting. Vinita Park is egregious. And so on.

St Louis County would be a better place if all of the PDs in North County for cities of under 10,000 people were eliminated and replaced by the County PD. The county is much more professional. And, in those little cities, the County already handles all major crimes, because the tiny PDs are not large enough to have services like a forensics unit.

This post was edited on 11/25 10:03 PM by Neutron Monster

Velda City...just saying...

 

[Duck_walk]

Having said all that, our prison population is going to explode with these idiots burning down the stinking city.

 

[WCS Coach]

I have no idea what happened, but for black people to come forward on their own and basically confirm Wilson's version is settles it for me. Here is what we do know:

We know Brown robbed a store.
We know Brown used force to do so.
We also know Brown refused to obey an officer of the law when he asked him to move off the street.
We know Brown attacked the officer and from all indications seemed to be going after his gun.
We know Brown was shot in the thumb at close range (that should have stopped his aggression, but it didn't).
We know Brown then ran from the officer and the officer followed
We also know he turned around for some reason.
We now know that the "hands up--don't shoot" story was not true.

Should Wilson have waited for backup to arrive---obviously. Cops do that all the time.
Should the city have available other means to take down someone--obviously.
Could Wilson have shot him somewhere else to stop him? Maybe his leg? Possibly, but that is a lot to ask from someone who was just attacked and says he feared for his own life, because he had already gone after his gun.

The fact that he showed little regard for the law is what really put Brown at risk.
Had he not robbed a store the officer would not have even noticed him walking down the street.
Had he not attacked the officer he would be alive today, with a slap on the wrist for what he did.
Brown's own actions are the reason he was shot. It is sad, but true.

 

[Expect2Win]

Interesting comparison of testimony.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story

 

[WCS Coach]

The testimony I would be more interested in reading would be of those with no stake in it. Perhaps those six black citizens who decided to come forward and tell what they saw.

While there isn't any way to know for sure, I have a hard time believing those people that came forward would feel as comfortable testifying in an open court room. Unfortunately the enviorment in Ferguson doesn't seem to lend itself to that. The Grand Jury may well have been the only way the truth was able to surface.

 

[HannibalLector]

The store's video told me everything I needed to know about MB.

 

[runyouover]

Yea like confucious say, man who take cigar should be shot twice in head.

Wilson's lawyers had access to all of the evidence and he had six weeks to
craft a story to match the evidence. Then he was allowed to deliver
his testimony without being grilled in cross examination. If you believe
a young man was reaching into his waist band of his gym shorts like he was grabbing
for a weapon while charging like a linebacker and then
continued charging straight ahead after getting shot three times
then you believe in fairy tales. Burn the bitch down

 

[ag-man]

I agree,

Burn the bitch down, that'll show those innocent business owner's whose the boss !!!!! ????

 

[WCS Coach]

Actually they took his statement right after the shooting, and it was consistent with the later statements he made, so that dog isn't going to hunt. As for the issue of cross examination, well that sword cuts both ways. All the people that used the "hands up" defense would also be grilled in an open court and it apprears that was an outright lie.

I'm not saying I believe any of the statements on either side, because I have no idea. I'm not naive enough to think a cop isn't above being a racist or losing his cool in a confrontation. It is also quite conceivable he is covering his butt with his story. What I do know is quite a few people with nothing at stake decided to come forward with what they saw and that seemed to make the difference to the Grand Jury.

 

[runyouover]

No they didn't. Stop listening to his lawyers and read.

 

[HannibalLector]

He was a punk.

 

[Neutron Monster]

Not going to get down into the morass that is some of the posts in this thread, just posting this as a comment on the reliability of eyewitness testimony:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/newly-released-witness-testimony-tell-us-michael-brown-shooting/

 

[runyouover]

I agree. That's why he won't be a cop any more.

 

[runyouover]

WCS. (Worst Cracker I've Seen)

Look at how many witnesses said he had his hands up.
The thug was the guy with a gun.
This post was edited on 11/28 4:13 PM by runyouover

 

[Duck_walk]

Neutron

Am I interpreting this correctly?
16 different witnesses say he had his hands up at some
point?

 

[Duck_walk]

Re: Neutron

Never mind I got on a bigger screen and can see that some of the witnesses were on there mutiple times.
Still that is a significant number saying they saw his hands up

 

[3Rfan]

Runny you're just wrong. His statement was taken about an hour after the shooting then the FBI did it again later, then he testified before the grand jury and all of his statements were consistent with the other.

 

[HannibalLector]

Re: WCS. (Worst Cracker I've Seen)

Originally posted by runyouover:
Look at how many witnesses said he had his hands up.
The thug was the guy with a gun.

This post was edited on 11/28 4:13 PM by runyouover

He's not a thug he's white.

 

[runyouover]

You don't know what he told the FBI.
That wasn't made public.
You just make stuff up like all these other people.
A dozen people or more say he had his hands up.
The cop lied and said he didn't. 12 witnesses
said he had his hands up. Two said he didn't.
Hands up. Don't shoot. Its for real.

 

[HannibalLector]

Why anyone defends this kid is beyond me. Do what the officer tells you to start with and it doesn't escalate. When he attacked Wilson in his car all bets were off.

 

[Expect2Win]

Just saw this chart on FB and was going to link it, but you beat me to it. This just makes it clear as mud.

 

[WCS Coach]

I see. You have it correct and all the others are wrong.

 

[WCS Coach]

Re: WCS. (Worst Cracker I've Seen)


Actually there wouldn't be an I've in that. That would be WCIS.

Please tell me you aren't like this in real life.