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What is middle class? Why dont we have a strong one?

Duck_walk

Duck_walk

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2002
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Most people agree that our country is at its best with a strong middle class. A lot of people call themselves "middle class". A lot of others say the middle class has deteriorated because the inequality of wealth has reached such absurd proportions. What constitutes the middle class?

How did our economy get such a strong middle class after WWII?
The answer is pretty simple. For a period of time we moved toward socialism
to redistribute the wealth. Tax rates for top incomes reached 90%.
They passed the GI bill and a lot of folks got college educations
(Think Obama's free community college). As a veteran, my dad was able to buy a
house with a mortgage rate that was under 2%. Unions were strong.
We redistributed wealth. Plain and simple.

Obama has proposed a redistribution of wealth again by
proposing higher taxes on the top 1%, and capital gains, etc
while giving families with children tax breaks along with free community
college. Some of us refer to my dad's age group as the "greatest generation"
isn't Obama trying to create another great generation?
 
The govt didn't create the "Greatest Generation". My dad got home from WWII,,,, built our first home with a hand saw a square and a hammer and didn't borrow a penny to do it. In the late 60's he built a nice new home with his own hands , and no bank,and retired at the age of 57. Govt didn't give him a thing and he would have been too proud to accept a handout from anyone.

These days people are nothing but lazy and would rather set around bitching than getting up, taking responsibility for their own life and doing something about it.
 
Originally posted by Stevedangos:
The govt didn't create the "Greatest Generation". My dad got home from WWII,,,, built our first home with a hand saw a square and a hammer and didn't borrow a penny to do it. In the late 60's he built a nice new home with his own hands , and no bank,and retired at the age of 57. Govt didn't give him a thing and he would have been too proud to accept a handout from anyone.

These days people are nothing but lazy and would rather set around bitching than getting up, taking responsibility for their own life and doing something about it.
Click to expand...
Ironic coming from a guy on a message board that has compatriots that do nothing but post on the internets all day.
laugh.r191677.gif
 
Even the lower class has things today the middle class didn't dream of when I grew up. Just because the upper class has more than ever doesn't mean anyone else is suffering because of it.
 
My dad worked 20 years for a mining company at night, got off at 6:00am and opened his own business and worked until 1:00pm when his brother came in. Working next to the machine he went completely deaf in his left ear. 20 years. No pension. No compensation for hearing loss. He never talked about it. He just went on to his next career. He deserved better.

Your implication that someone who took a cheap loan after fighting in a war as a volunteer is "taking a handout" is certainly your right, but financially really dumb. "These days people are nothing but lazy..." is as dumb a statement as I have read in my lifetime. It just kills you that socialism built a strong middle class doesnt it. Kind of bursts your bubble. Have a nice day.
 
Not doubting your word Duck, but a link proving that socialism built a strong middle class would be great.
 
I just saw news report today that said people today work about 1 full month's worth of hours MORE per year than people did 30-40 years ago so I'm not sure "lazy" is the proper term for workers of today. The report actually had nothing to do with this subject, it was about the death of Radio Shack and that figure was thrown out there as an aside to why people don't "tinker" with electronics anymore partly because they don't have the extra time so they they don't shop at Radio Shack.
 
When is the last time anyone you know set foot in a RadioShack?

My personal opinion is their failure has nothing to do with people not having time for XYZ.
 
lol This post, so many ways to go about it. Mentions of unions, low APR's, middle class etc.


1. Have you tried building a house while using union workers compared to non-union? Yeah tell me which one you would prefer. Unions served their purpose then, no doubt. But if they're not what they were, they only have themselves to blame.

2. Don't GI's get help in a lot of the similar situations you mentioned above, today?

3. Radio Shack sucked. When you have the same quality of electronics at a Target or Walmart, what is the point? Times change.

4. Why no mention of how frugal that generation was? What happened since then?
 
Excellent point 3r.

3R, does your head ever explode when
you make a point and people take what
you said and attack radioshack, which wasnt
really the topic being discussed?
This board has become even more worthless.
 
Originally posted by Duck_walk:
Excellent point 3r.

3R, does your head ever explode when
you make a point and people take what
you said and attack radioshack, which wasnt
really the topic being discussed?
This board has become even more worthless.
Click to expand...
Does your head explode when you saying something is "free" and then realize how stupid that sounds? How about comparing the cost of living/income now to then? Do we not have benefits for our veterans? All these questions.

If you can't see why Best Buy or Radio Shack or Circuit City were shut down then I don't know what to tell you.
 
What is Middle Calss. Hell ive been waiting for YEARS for someone to explain what our Government
deems a "Small Business". I'll probably be dead before anyone comes up with an answer to either
question. lol
 
Originally posted by docfever_2:

What is Middle Calss. Hell ive been waiting for YEARS for someone to explain what our Government
deems a "Small Business". I'll probably be dead before anyone comes up with an answer to either
question. lol
Click to expand...
Middle Class is South County. Upper Class is West County. Lower Class is North County.


You're welcome.
 
Originally posted by Drop.Tine:
Originally posted by docfever_2:

What is Middle Calss. Hell ive been waiting for YEARS for someone to explain what our Government
deems a "Small Business". I'll probably be dead before anyone comes up with an answer to either
question. lol
Click to expand...
Middle Class is South County. Upper Class is West County. Lower Class is North County.


You're welcome.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this although it's fairer to say North City and the inner ring part of North County; Hazelwood and Florissant are still middle class.

This post was edited on 2/10 10:55 AM by Neutron Monster
 
Drop they also talked about the big box stores and internet sales killing them. One point is that people do NOT go buy a bunch of little crap to "build" something electronic themselves anymore. It may be they don't have time to tinker, but I'd bet its mostly because they can buy something for the same or less that's already put together and they don't care how it works. Drop I'm quite sure you're too young to remember when Radio Shack was big deal for anything electronic. The real point was about people working more hours now than back then.
 
Originally posted by Neutron Monster:


Originally posted by Drop.Tine:

Originally posted by docfever_2:

What is Middle Calss. Hell ive been waiting for YEARS for someone to explain what our Government
deems a "Small Business". I'll probably be dead before anyone comes up with an answer to either
question. lol
Click to expand...
Middle Class is South County. Upper Class is West County. Lower Class is North County.


You're welcome.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this although it's fairer to say North City and the inner ring part of North County; Hazelwood and Florissant are still middle class.


This post was edited on 2/10 10:55 AM by Neutron Monster
Click to expand...
Was in your neck of the woods Saturday. Brother lives in a nice subdivision in Cherry Hills. Wife almost side swiped a Mercedes SUV while getting over to turn left on Taylor Road.

I miss living in the area, I do not miss the traffic though. I also enjoyed shopping at Dierbergs until now(since junior arrived). We did our shopping there before hitting the road again. I lol'd when it came up $310. I love me some ALDI's now.
 
Aldi's in the Valley and Trader Joe's on Clarkson FTW. Lucky's at Clarkson/Clayton has some decent stuff, too.

I got Dierbergs pretty regularly but those are where you go when you need to be a little cheaper.
 
Originally posted by Drop.Tine:
Originally posted by docfever_2:

What is Middle Calss. Hell ive been waiting for YEARS for someone to explain what our Government
deems a "Small Business". I'll probably be dead before anyone comes up with an answer to either
question. lol
Click to expand...
Middle Class is South County. Upper Class is West County. Lower Class is North County.


You're welcome.
Click to expand...
Sweeeeeeeeet. I've officially made it to the middle class
 
You should do some reading. There was this war that ended and hundreds of thousands of vets all came home at the same time and the rich people paid more taxes to finance a war and give those vets cheap money for housing and there was this thing called the baby boom and more people had access to higher education.

Public education at SGHS was free. Local, state, and federal tax payers subsidized your free schooling.
Did u pay admission? See how stupid it sounds when I ask if you paid admission? It was free.
THAT is how free community college will work. No admission charge, subsidized by the top 1% and other Aholes
who can't just discuss things on a message board and try to
talk down to their superiors.

Try to give another genius response about having a house built by union
workers, radio shack sucking, and veterans still having benefits so I
can rest assured that you just rattle off incoherent responses without thinking or
understanding.
 
Originally posted by Duck_walk:
You should do some reading. There was this war that ended and hundreds of thousands of vets all came home at the same time and the rich people paid more taxes to finance a war and give those vets cheap money for housing and there was this thing called the baby boom and more people had access to higher education.

Public education at SGHS was free. Local, state, and federal tax payers subsidized your free schooling.
Did u pay admission? See how stupid it sounds when I ask if you paid admission? It was free.
THAT is how free community college will work. No admission charge, subsidized by the top 1% and other Aholes
who can't just discuss things on a message board and try to
talk down to their superiors.

Try to give another genius response about having a house built by union
workers, radio shack sucking, and veterans still having benefits so I
can rest assured that you just rattle off incoherent responses without thinking or
understanding.
Click to expand...
So we don't pay taxes that fund our children's schooling? Tell me how free that is. Tell me again how free it's going to be to send kids to college as well. Tell me again where the 7.8 million that funds A+ comes from. Do tell.

Don't come on here spouting about "unions being strong" without somebody mentioning their own downfall. Way over priced. Then when my FIL hired a guy I went to high school with who hadn't had a steady job through the union in 2 years, had a daughter on the way, gets yanked off the job because he didn't hire under a union contract. Watching a fat SOB berate a guy in the middle of the street because he wanted to support his family. Yeah, go unions.

And last but not least, my superior? Dude you're falling all over yourself.


This **** you say is free is paid for by tax payers. I'll gladly pay MORE if it means better schooling for my children. That is one tax I have no problem being in support of. It's a proven fact, the better the schools, the better the community.

But it's not "free."

Do you work for "free"?
 
Once again this isn't the topic.
You have not refuted the fact that
we built a strong middle class by redistributing
wealth. You go off on tangents like a little fool.
Buh bye buffoon.
 
Originally posted by Duck_walk:
Once again this isn't the topic.
You have not refuted the fact that
we built a strong middle class by redistributing
wealth. You go off on tangents like a little fool.
Buh bye buffoon.
Click to expand...
Well then we should re-distribute more and we can do away with the lower class. I like the idea of everyone being equal.
 
Duck,

It's a shame you don't appreciate the people who paid your salary. #yourewelcome
 
Drop YOU don't pay anywhere near enough in school taxes to educate your kid, or kids, for 12 or 14 years in the public school system. If not for millions of tax payers like me that pay school taxes with no complaints so OTHER'S kids get to go to school like the ONE daughter I had did, YOU would have to pay a LOT more than you do now. Nothing is FREE in education but you sure are getting off cheap as it is. A better educated crop of kids is worth paying for anytime and not all of them ned to go to a university and get a big fancy degree. Some can get what they need in a junior college and/or trade school to make a good living.
 
Originally posted by 3Rfan:
Drop YOU don't pay anywhere near enough in school taxes to educate your kid, or kids, for 12 or 14 years in the public school system. If not for millions of tax payers like me that pay school taxes with no complaints so OTHER'S kids get to go to school like the ONE daughter I had did, YOU would have to pay a LOT more than you do now. Nothing is FREE in education but you sure are getting off cheap as it is. A better educated crop of kids is worth paying for anytime and not all of them ned to go to a university and get a big fancy degree. Some can get what they need in a junior college and/or trade school to make a good living.
Click to expand...
Do you read any of my posts or just go complete senile on us? At what point did you translate that into me saying it was a raw deal to pay taxes for education? Care to point that out, or are you just going off on a tangent?

In fact I said raising taxes for education is one I was for?

Care to respond to this one after re-reading my posts?
 
Do a little math when you get the time. Look at your taxes and see just how much of your money goes to education. Next get the budget of that school(s) and see what percent of your money is a part of those budgets. You may be paying a dime of the math teacher's salary.
 
Originally posted by SadButTrue:
Do a little math when you get the time. Look at your taxes and see just how much of your money goes to education. Next get the budget of that school(s) and see what percent of your money is a part of those budgets. You may be paying a dime of the math teacher's salary.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I am wrong but judging by the 2012 data, the majority(by a slight margin) comes from local sources. Followed by State and a smaller amount federal. These numbers are from the census bureau. Either way you slice it, local taxesare a large part of a school district.


Of course you can single it down to each individual. But that is why they call it a community.
happy0025.r191677.gif


And by no means is it "free".
 
Originally posted by SadButTrue:
Do a little math when you get the time. Look at your taxes and see just how much of your money goes to education. Next get the budget of that school(s) and see what percent of your money is a part of those budgets. You may be paying a dime of the math teacher's salary.
Click to expand...
I would say about 90% of my property taxes goes to education then some to a childrens center and most of the rest to roads/bridges. Not sure about the rest of the taxes.
 
Originally posted by Expect2Win:
So you took personal shots at both 3R and Duck.
#disrespectfulpunk
Click to expand...
No admission charge, subsidized by the top 1% and other Aholes
who can't just discuss things on a message board and try to
talk down to their superiors.


Who do you think duck was calling an Ahole?

It's not my fault Duck makes a stupid comment about public schooling and got called out on it.And 3R cannot for some reason comprehend what anybody is ever saying.

#whiner
 
Originally posted by Black&Gold82:
Originally posted by SadButTrue:
Do a little math when you get the time. Look at your taxes and see just how much of your money goes to education. Next get the budget of that school(s) and see what percent of your money is a part of those budgets. You may be paying a dime of the math teacher's salary.
Click to expand...
I would say about 90% of my property taxes goes to education then some to a childrens center and most of the rest to roads/bridges. Not sure about the rest of the taxes.
Click to expand...
I looked my rates up at the St. Louis county revenue website. Here's the approximate split of what I pay for residential (personal property is slightly different):

STL County: 9% (parks, libraries, and other items)
Chesterfield City:
 
Originally posted by Neutron Monster:


Originally posted by Black&Gold82:

Originally posted by SadButTrue:
Do a little math when you get the time. Look at your taxes and see just how much of your money goes to education. Next get the budget of that school(s) and see what percent of your money is a part of those budgets. You may be paying a dime of the math teacher's salary.
Click to expand...
I would say about 90% of my property taxes goes to education then some to a childrens center and most of the rest to roads/bridges. Not sure about the rest of the taxes.
Click to expand...
I looked my rates up at the St. Louis county revenue website. Here's the approximate split of what I pay for residential (personal property is slightly different):

STL County: 9% (parks, libraries, and other items)
Chesterfield City:
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Drop.Tine:
Originally posted by Expect2Win:
So you took personal shots at both 3R and Duck.
#disrespectfulpunk
Click to expand...
No admission charge, subsidized by the top 1% and other Aholes
who can't just discuss things on a message board and try to
talk down to their superiors.


Who do you think duck was calling an Ahole?

It's not my fault Duck makes a stupid comment about public schooling and got called out on it.And 3R cannot for some reason comprehend what anybody is ever saying.

#whiner
Click to expand...
First, he was just pointing out a fact.
Second, you really made a great point there. WOW Why don't you make a point to go see Duck. I am sure he would more than willing to give you your dime back! You may even get a little education at the same time.
 
Drop YOU said so WE don't pay taxes that fund our kids education" I said NO, YOU don't! You pay a little along with others that have kids in school. How many people in your school district do you think pay the same taxes or maybe be more, depending on their property taxes, that don't have kids in school and many that never have had? Right now you're one helping to pay for others people's kids in school. Once again I'll say YOU will NOT pay anywhere enough to cover the cost of YOUR kid, or kids, education someday. Now tell me again how I went off on a tangent when my post was exactly on topic replying to the post you made about paying for YOUR kid's education.
 
Originally posted by 3Rfan:
Drop YOU said so WE don't pay taxes that fund our kids education" I said NO, YOU don't! You pay a little along with others that have kids in school. How many people in your school district do you think pay the same taxes or maybe be more, depending on their property taxes, that don't have kids in school and many that never have had? Right now you're one helping to pay for others people's kids in school. Once again I'll say YOU will NOT pay anywhere enough to cover the cost of YOUR kid, or kids, education someday. Now tell me again how I went off on a tangent when my post was exactly on topic replying to the post you made about paying for YOUR kid's education.
Click to expand...
Here are my quotes. Now, tell me WTF you are talking about.


So we don't pay taxes that fund our children's schooling? Tell me how free that is. Tell me again how free it's going to be to send kids to college as well. Tell me again where the 7.8 million that funds A+ comes from. Do tell.

This **** you say is free is paid for by tax payers. I'll gladly pay MORE if it means better schooling for my children. That is one tax I have no problem being in support of. It's a proven fact, the better the schools, the better the community.

It's a shame you don't appreciate the people who paid your salary. #yourewelcome

 
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